Exercise/caloric restriction is NOT the answer to permanent, healthy weight loss

Ok, I've been meaning to post about this for a while, just now getting the time...

So... first, a little background about me...

I never had a weight problem when I was younger, until I turned 25. This is when I stopped using drugs/alcohol/tobacco (cold turkey - been in recovery for about 34 years now). Happy to answer any questions about that too, but...

It took about 3 or 4 years for my weight problem to get to the point it was a real problem, and I've been struggling to lose it ever since. Lose some, gain it back plus some... an endless cycle of wash rinse repeat. The weight loss/gain+ cycle is ... exhausting, both mentally and physically. I'm 6' tall, average to decent sized frame, but not 'big'. At my heaviest, I weighed in at about 310lbs, when I did the 2 week Hippocrates Health Institute course with my Mom here in Atlanta, which was about 20 years ago. I forced myself to eat their veggie kraut every morning for those two weeks. It was torture. Anyway, I lost some - I think after a few months I got down to around 250, and settled in at anywhere between 245 and 275, with occasional temporary dips/peaks under/over, and I've been there ever since.

I've also been studying natural/alternative health for 35+ years (since before I got clean), and I've always known I have massive will power - because it takes a lot of will power to lose much of the weight multiple times over those years. The problem, though, was I simply could never keep it off.

Well... right at the end of 2019/early 2020 (around the first week of January), I finally found the answer. About Jan 15th of this year, I implemented it, weighing about 260 when I started.

I'm now going to repeat in a little more detail the two points I made in the OP subject... two truths that some may think are heretical, absurd, and wrong... but this is 100% accurate, and provable in the scientific literature if you're willing to look. Indulge me...

1. Exercising has some really great benefits, especially if you exercise smart (HIIT, and no old style slow cardio which only makes your heart weaker, not stronger) - but weight loss isn't one of them. Read that again. Digest it.

Yes, it can tone things up, and build muscle that will raise your basal metabolism rate (meaning, you burn more calories when at rest), and thereby assist in healthy weight loss, but by itself, and/or combined with caloric restriction - no. It simply does not work.

2. Caloric restriction for permanent, healthy weight loss is doomed to failure. Always. It doesn't work. Yes, you can achieve some temporary results, sometimes even make it last for a while, but it is never permanent, and you'll feel really crappy the whole time.

Metabolism is not static. When you restrict calories, your metabolism slows down to compensate. It is smart. It sees the reduced calories, so it lowers your basal metabolism rate to match what is available.This is an autonomic response, and there is nothing you can do about it.

To prove this to myself, I haven't exercised - at all - during this time, and I eat as much as I want... 3-4lb steaks, entire large pizzas loaded with yummy sauce, meats and cheeses (I don't like veggies on pizza), all by myself, in one sitting/meal. I never feel stuffed, or groggy, or lethargic, or anything, like I used to when eating a large meal (much smaller than what I eat now). I eat more calories per day than I was eating before I started. By about May, I was down to about 185 (hadn't been below 200 in 15 years), and I'm now at about 175, though I haven't weighed myself in months. Once I got in the swing of it, it was, basically, effortless. The weight just kept coming off. After the first 3-4 weeks of very slow weight loss, it just started falling off, at the rate of 1 to 2 lbs per day, for the next month or two, which got me down to below 200, then it slowed down, but still kept coming off steadily, but slowing down till it steadied out at where I am now. I think I still have a few lbs to go.

I'm now getting ready to start a simple flexibility routine, then once I've regained some flexibility, I'll be starting a simple HIIT routine, until I've regained some muscle mass and strengthened up my core, after which I'll settle into a routine I'm comfortable with. I've actually always hated exercising, but I'm hoping maybe it was because it was always so hard because I was doing it while overweight and to lose the weight but it never worked, so... maybe I'll like it now that I know I'll never have a weight problem again.

I also plan on starting a martial art once I'm feeling strong and ready, thinking of going with Jeet Kune Do (always been a Bruce Lee fan), but would appreciate suggestions from others. I want to learn something that is not only practical for self defense, but the most efficient and optimal for long term health and vitality. I'm also planning on getting my kids involved.

So, what was the answer?

First... the problem is something called 'insulin resistance'. The answer is something called intermittent fasting. Yes, there is more to both, and I learned all about it in a book by Dr. Jason Fung, called 'The Obesity Code'. I mean, I hadn't gone more than a chapter or 3 when the lightbulb just went off and I knew this was the answer I'd been looking for.

Read it, and weep, both for the lost years, and for the joy of the great years of liberation and vibrant health to come!

Comments welcome, especially about different exercise routines you've found effective. I'll be starting a lot on my rebounder with all of the exercises you can do on it to build up the core, and posting follow-ups on my progress. I'll throw in some Hindu Pushups, Squats and the Body Bridge, along with some Burpees, once I'm able.

So, let the stoning begin...

Basically don't eat after 6 pm .

Snack food is really high in calories and horribly hard to wear off the calories when you are sleeping.

Almonds, yes, almonds, a small palm filled after dinner.

Should have some fresh fruit after lunch. Pineapple or coconut .

Breakfast, depends on your age and work load, but minimize the calorie intake on it. Drink whole milk. Squeeze your fruit juices. Concentrated juices is a no no

Exercise, well, start learning breathing exercises. Stick with the very basics. Advance ones I'd recommend an instructor.

As we get older, running should be outlawed. It really is too hard. Have you ever seen a baby run. Our body just isn't made for it. Stick to swimming. A light jog breaking it up( short jogs ) into 1 to 3 miles a few times a week might go well for some.

Touching your toes is recommended and jumping rope.

Hope this helps.

Calories, i'm happy with less then 1800 calories a day.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Soda is the devil.

Totally agree with you about the exercise.
When I went a little exercise crazy I ended up gaining weight because I was
so darn hungry.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Aerobic exercises with a balanced diet. You cannot burn fat without actually burning fat, to optimally burn fat you need to be at the higher end of beats per minute.

This Is related to your age so don't go thinking a 180 heart rate is a healthy way to burn fat if you're 60, it should be around 120 at that age. There's simple formulas to work out this. You want to be aiming at about 70% of your ideal maximum bpm.

Dancing is a great way to lose weight, if you struggle with exercise pick something fun, like sports or dancing if you're into that. A professional runner I once knew swore by a running regime that broke up jogs, sprints then runs into his daily runs.

Basically run 100m sprint 50m and then jog 100m. The key being the occasional push for high bpm and maintaining optimal output. This strengthens the heart

That technique had me running 100m in about 12 seconds when I was younger. It also made me a formidable winger in soccer. BTW soccer is an amazing sport for maintaining peak fitness. It's heavy on breathing and the heart and has plenty of moments to express explosive power.

Worrking within your means is key. I gained a lot of weight once with a sugary diet (soda) and a lack of aerobic exercises. Cutting out sugar is important too because your body finds it too easy to turn into fat, too many carbs goes the exact same way. Damn you Guinness! Yeah a couple pints a day can go a long way...

BTW you're going to get bad breath till you're at optimum fitness and weight. Means you're burning fat and removing toxins via the lungs. It helps to learn your body and daily routine too. For a man 2500 calories a day is a guideline, but it's not necessarily a necessary.

As someone who has never been obese but always fluctuate around my ideal weight, up a little, down a little throughout my life I have to say that exercise and the restriction of calories does work a treat.
Now the wording seems scary. People, including myself don't like to exercise and yet there are things even the laziest can do without much effort and a lot of results.
Exercising for me doesn't mean going to the gym. It means doing standing press-ups against the kitchen counter whilst waiting for the kettle to boil. It means stretching my legs and keeping them up whilst sitting in my armchair.
I have also a stepper, which I go to and like a game try and top my previous amounts. If I can't do many, I'll do a few or none but the next day I will feel better and do twice as many.

My aim is to get my heart beating faster for a short time, maybe 5 min a day, so that the heart muscles don't atrophy. Walking a few times up and down the staircase.

Now to calorie restrictions, that is an awful word which seems to say you can never eat anything nice. BS.
It means you shouldn't eat more than you should. This gives you a certain amount of calories to spend as you wish.
I am on 1000 a day but usually end up at about 1200 +/- a another 100. If you are taller [I am very small] you can even eat more! yay.
I think the problem is that people aren't addicted to food but scared of being hungry!
It's a kind of phobia for some. Well learn that you can feel hunger and still live even if you don't give in to it. Train your body slowly and enjoy the feeling because in that moment you are actually not getting fat! [Don't take it to the anorexic level of course].

Yes I snack on chocolate, I loooove chocolate. By eating Minstrels slowly, one Minstrel [choc buttons] can take a long time if you don't just scoff it. One packet lasts me days. I eat pasta and pizza and peanut butter toast and honey and a take away every week. Just buy sweets you can suck and not something that disappears as soon as it hits your tongue.

The secret is that if you 'borrow' calories, you'll pay it back the next day by not eating your chocolates or sweets.

However the best thing is honesty to yourself. People who are overweight lie to themselves. They say they don't eat much but the constantly snack on small bits and pieces here and there which they ignore. A bisquit, a small packet of crisps, a sugary tea, only a salad but with lots of sauce plus normal meals. Well the small snacks already add about half or a third of your daily 'allowance' without being counted. That is what makes people put on weight.

Simplest way of losing weight is know your calories and add them up even if it is 'only ' a bisquit [which can have up to 60 calories] Do you need two slices of toast? Do you really? Don't become obsessed but treat it like your money. You should know how much you have and what you can spent without being silly. The same with calories.
Just become aware and treat it like a game at which you can beat your high[low] score.

Don't.
- Think it's a punishment
- Lie to yourself, it only harms YOU!
- Don't go overboard with exercise, start small with things you can do whilst you don't do anything else.
- Pay back borrowed calories.
- Expect results too quickly, Rome wasn't build in one day...but as soon as you notice it works [a month or so I'd say], it becomes quite a rush and you'll be amazed how little it takes.
- Don't think you can't ever eat anything nice or naughty ever again, because you still can, just don't pig out on it.

Do:
- Learn calorie counting
- Remember it's not unfair, it's for you to look and feel better.
- Eat things that make you happy [but within your calorie budget]
- Slowly shrink your stomach so that you don't need so much food [it's stretchy you know]
- Remember that eating the right amount for your body is what nature intended; any more and you are a piggy and you are kind of abusing the fact that you live in a place where you actually can eat too much.
- Enjoy the new you and know you didn't have to do anything out of the extraordinary to achieve it.


All this is possible if you just learn self restriction for a good cause - you feeling better.
It's not a life sentence, it's how it should be. Being overweight is a punishment and not normal.
Now good luck.

originally posted by: musicismagic
Basically don't eat after 6 pm.

No, not really. It isn't what time you eat, but it is about time.

I'll be posting a reply to my own post with details about what, specifically, IF (intermittent fasting) is, the different ways it can be applied, and more specifically, what I did.

Snack food is really high in calories and horribly hard to wear off the calories when you are sleeping.

Again... no. This is wrong. The problem with snack food has nothing to do with the calories. Weight gain/loss is not about calories (unless you're talking about massive quantities) per se.

Almonds, yes, almonds, a small palm filled after dinner.

Should have some fresh fruit after lunch. Pineapple or coconut .

Breakfast, depends on your age and work load, but minimize the calorie intake on it. Drink whole milk. Squeeze your fruit juices. Concentrated juices is a no no

Again... no. It isn't about what you eat. Yes, you should strive to eat healthy. But there is a whole lot of legitimate debate about what constitutes a healthy diet.

Exercise, well, start learning breathing exercises. Stick with the very basics. Advance ones I'd recommend an instructor.

Well, it depends. It depends on each individual, where they are in life, and what is their current state of health and/or fitness - or lack thereof.

As we get older, running should be outlawed. It really is too hard. Have you ever seen a baby run. Our body just isn't made for it.

Actually, that is wrong too. Our bodies are made for running. But when we violate the rules for maintaining vital health, things start breaking down - and yes, if your body is broken down, then you very well may be ill advised to start running.

Incidentally, running, or what some people call 'jogging', or 'aerobic exercise', is absolutely unhealthy, and will slowly decrease your overall cardio-vascular health. HIIT is the way to go.

Stick to swimming.

Swimming is fine for toning the muscles, but unless you do a HIIT form of it (you can apply HIIT principles to basically any form of exercise), the same thing goes for it as does jogging.

A light jog breaking it up( short jogs ) into 1 to 3 miles a few times a week might go well for some.

Again... no. Jogging is very unhealthy, long term. Do HIIT. If you like running, then change to sprints... meaning, run as fast and as hard as you can, for as long as you can, until you're about totally out of breath and ready to collapse, then walk to recover, then do it again - do this for 3-7 cycles. That is healthy running.

Calories, i'm happy with less then 1800 calories a day.

Again, it isn't about calories. I was eating probably 2,000 per day before I started, and am now eating anywhere from 2,500 to 5,000 (depending on how much beef suet or other fatty meats I eat).

I had some sunflower seeds last night around 8ish or so, and I'm having some coffee right now, but I won't eat anything until lunch today at noonish. I will drink plenty of water.

I didn't realize that's basically what they were talking about as intermittent fasting until I did the math in my head. The time may not be the perfect interval, but the weight really started to drop when I got into this pattern by accident.

**EDIT**

I do break the fasting pattern on days with exercise in the morning. I will have an avocado toast in the morning on those days, but I figure that an hour of step aerobics with weights and bands burns just under 600 calories, so I can afford to have a piece of whole grain with avocado on it. Plus, on exercise days the extra physical activity actually craters my appetite, so I end up with three small meals even with about 1,100 calories burned in exercise. On those days, I'm at a deficit.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: tanstaafl
Aerobic exercises with a balanced diet. You cannot burn fat without actually burning fat, to optimally burn fat you need to be at the higher end of beats per minute.

Again... no... you totally missed the point of the OP. This is a perfect example of bad science, something that you think you know that just ain't so. Like eggs are bad for you, like cholesterol is bad for you, like saturated animal fat is bad for you... it is all lies, fed to us by a commercial food industry that doesn't have our best interests at heart.

Exercise and caloric restriction as means to meaningful, permanent weight loss is just another lie. It can not, never has and never will work. It does work to assist weight loss, and can have some short term benefits that make you think it would work for weight loss, but by itself - nope, it is doomed to failure. I know. I did it. For decades. And there are countless stories online of people experiencing the same frustrating thing. It seems to work... until it doesn't.

It isn't about calories in vs calories out. It really isn't. Our bodies are much, much smarter than that.

This Is related to your age so don't go thinking a 180 heart rate is a healthy way to burn fat if you're 60, it should be around 120 at that age. There's simple formulas to work out this. You want to be aiming at about 70% of your ideal maximum bpm.

Again... no... sustained 'traditional' aerobic or cardio is actually very counter-productive when it comes to cardio-vascular health.

No. HIIT is the healthy and optimal way to exercise for true long term vital health, and it also works much much better to assist in weight loss.

Dancing is a great way to lose weight, if you struggle with exercise pick something fun, like sports or dancing if you're into that.

Dancing is a fun way to help maintain fitness, but like all exercise, it is useless for weight loss.

A professional runner I once knew swore by a running regime that broke up jogs, sprints then runs into his daily runs.

He got it half right. The typical 'jogging' popularized by Jim Fixx (who died on July 20, 1984 at age 52 of a fulminant heart attack, during his daily run on Vermont Route 15 in Hardwick) and Dr. Ken Cooper, who authored the infamous book Aerobics, is the worst way to exercise, in the long term.

Basically run 100m sprint 50m and then jog 100m. The key being the occasional push for high bpm and maintaining optimal output. This strengthens the heart

Depends on what you mean by sprint, and there is no need to assign pre-determined numbers. It is really simple - you just go all out, balls to the walls, then walk (or jog if you prefer) to recover, then repeat the cycle a few times (3-7), no more than 3 or 4 times per week, then yes, this is best. Best of all, for those of us who hate exercising, it only takes 20-30 minutes per day, 3-4 times per week, to achieve and maintain true, vital health. Now, if you want to achieve olympic levels of fitness, it will obviously take more than that.

That technique had me running 100m in about 12 seconds when I was younger. It also made me a formidable winger in soccer. BTW soccer is an amazing sport for maintaining peak fitness. It's heavy on breathing and the heart and has plenty of moments to express explosive power.

Yes. HIIT in its natural form. Sounds like you were doing it right.

Worrking within your means is key.

Yes. Know thyself. No one knows your limitations/state of health better than you. Consult with doctors or others with knowledge in the area if you like, but ultimately it is on each us to manage our own health.

I gained a lot of weight once with a sugary diet (soda) and a lack of aerobic exercises.

It wasn't the lack of exercise. Sugar is bad, but it wasn't even the sugar. I'll be posting a follow-up to my OP explaining this in more detail soon.

Cutting out sugar is important too because your body finds it too easy to turn into fat, too many carbs goes the exact same way. Damn you Guinness! Yeah a couple pints a day can go a long way...

Again, it isn't about calories... stay tuned...

Thanks for participating!

a reply to: tanstaafl

Actually, cutting your sugar does help. Not because of the calories per se, but because sugar provides no real nutritive benefit.

It burns itself off quickly and rapidly providing a fast burst of energy and leaves you feeling empty and hungry.

If your goal is to lose weight, a lot of sugar is counter-productive. You can use it to fulfill your calorie needs, but you're going to be one hangry puppy and likely suffer from malnutrition at the same time.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
I've also been studying natural/alternative health for 35+ years (since before I got clean), and I've always known I have massive will power - because it takes a lot of will power to lose much of the weight multiple times over those years. The problem, though, was I simply could never keep it off.

I should have added this to the OP...

I tried everything. Every diet out there, from vegetarian to vegan, all organic, etc etc. I bought a Norwalk juicer for juicing carrots, celery, potatoes (raw potatoi juice), etc. I grew my own sprouts and wheatgrass and a wheatgrass juicer, and had a 4 or 5 month period where I thought I'd found the answer, had more energy than I ever had, was sleeping for 3 or 4 hours a day and waking up bright eyed and bushy tailed and going all day - until I started having real problems sleeping, dizzy spells, lots of weirdness, and on top of it problems maintaining the radical lifestyle... until I just stopped, because it simply wasn't maintainable.

Then, maybe 10 years ago, I found Atkins and the low carb/high protein lifestyle, and again, thought I'd found the answer, but the next 8 or 9 years were a roller-coaster of more of the same. I'd get down to 220, 210, and once I even got down to about 195... until it stopped working, which made maintaining it much more frustrating and exhausting.

Fast forward to finding 'the answer'.

Insulin resistance (IR) is the root cause of the problem of the inability to lose and maintain meaningful weight loss.

So, what is IR? It is a state where your cells are 'resistant' to taking in insulin.

What causes it? Sustained (over long periods of time) abnormally high levels of blood insulin levels.

So, what causes your blood insulin levels to spike?

Eating calories. Any calories.

Now, the key question...

What causes sustained, high levels of blood insulin levels?

Eating calories off/on all day - aka, snacking.

Intermittent Fasting (IF), again, is the answer.

But what is IF? It is actually quite simple. It isn't about what you eat, it is about when you eat, and, more importantly, when you don't eat.

For each 24 hour period we all know as a 'day', there are two 'windows'. There is your eating window, and there is your fasting window (when you don't eat anything, nothing at all, whatsoever - no calories, period. You can have water, black coffee, etc, but nothing with more than a calorie or so in it.

The goal with IF is to maintain a strict separation of your eating and fasting windows. The minimum for achieving results is a fasting window of at least 14 to 16 hours per day, which gives you an eating window of 10 to 8 hours per day.

The good news is, your sleeping window is included as part of your fasting window (because you aren't eating anything while you are sleeping).

The thing to understand is, the longer the fasting window (thus the shorter the eating window), the faster you will achieve results.

So, I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, so I dove right in to OMAD (one meal a day), which gives me a fasting window of about 22 - 23 hours per day. I have two small cups of black coffee in the morning, then eat around noon (my one meal), then have an after meal coffee with a whole stick of butter melted into it (two small cups with half a stick in each).

I've been doing this for almost a year, felt great from the start but feeling better every week.

a reply to: tanstaafl

My understanding is that you can put some fat in your coffee like butter or even a small amount of heavy cream. The idea though is not to put something like a sugar in there. It does vary from person to person. You're not trying to start certain metabolic processes and the sugar achieves that but the pure fat doesn't is my understanding.

Look at the idea behind "bulletproof" coffee for the theory as it pertains to IF. It's supposed to help people keep their hands off food for the full period by giving their stomach something to work on.

I find my body is pretty trainable. If I can establish that pattern, then it does the rest and falls into line pretty quick, but that first day is hard.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: tanstaafl

Soda is the devil.

Agreed... soda, white sugar, processed flour - well, all processed foods, really.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tanstaafl
Actually, cutting your sugar does help. Not because of the calories per se, but because sugar provides no real nutritive benefit.

I agree, and I don't think I said it doesn't help... of course it helps, but not because of calories, because it is garbage.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tanstaafl
My understanding is that you can put some fat in your coffee like butter or even a small amount of heavy cream. The idea though is not to put something like a sugar in there.

I think you're thinking of Ketosis, not IF.

No, you cannot have anything with any calories, or it spikes your insulin levels - takes you out of your fasting window.

This is why I have my butter coffee right after my meal, because it is within my one hour eating window.

Dr. Fung covers this in detail, as do many others on the IF train.

You make valid points about exercise and nutrition.
BUT: My opinion is caloric restriction is the only way to lose any weight and exercise will keep it off. Far too many people don't track their intake to the exact calorie and then fail to see long term results. Your body doesn't want to store all that extra fat. It wants to use it.

We don't move enough and we eat far too much for what we need.

Once you know what your body needs to stay at a specific weight, you will have your daily allowance. Usually it can be found within a 6-month period of exercise and caloric restriction.

Also, processed foods are the Devil.
Good thread!

originally posted by: havok
You make valid points about exercise and nutrition.
BUT: My opinion is caloric restriction is the only way to lose any weight and exercise will keep it off. Far too many people don't track their intake to the exact calorie and then fail to see long term results.

Thanks for participating, but - and no offense - your opinion is wrong. As I said, it is a perfect example of bad science that we have been fed for decades now.

Seriously. Dr Fungs book is extremely well footnoted with studies - dozens of real, legitimate studies - that destroys this myth. If you value your health, I strongly encourage you to research this.

And no need to spend any money. Dr Fung has tons of youtube videos where he discusses all of this, including referencing the studies, that prove, beyond a doubt, that caloric restriction does not work for permanent, healthy weight loss.

As I said in my OP - I am absolute proof of this. I tried it all. For decades. I never achieved more than 20 or 30 lbs of weight loss, and it never lasted more than a few months.

For the first time since I was 25 - I'm now 59, soon to be 60 - I'm at my ideal weight, and have been for 4 or 5 months now - and have yet to exercise even one tiny iota.

Again - it has nothing to do with calories and moving/exercise.

First - your body burns far more calories per day via what is called your basal metabolic rate, than you can ever burn with hours and hours of grueling exercise.

Second, when you restrict calories, your body responds by slowing down your basal metabolic rate, which makes it even harder to lose weight and keep it off.

This is why it doesn't work for permanent and healthy weight loss. Again, yes, you can achieve some temporary results, and maybe even extend those out if you become a fanatic about counting calories and exercising - but in the end it is doomed to failure, because no one can keep that up as a permanent lifestyle.

Again - learning and incorporating this knowledge into your lifestyle is truly liberating... try it...

Here are some of his vids to get you started:

originally posted by: ketsuko
I do break the fasting pattern on days with exercise in the morning. I will have an avocado toast in the morning on those days, but I figure that an hour of step aerobics with weights and bands burns just under 600 calories, so I can afford to have a piece of whole grain with avocado on it. Plus, on exercise days the extra physical activity actually craters my appetite, so I end up with three small meals even with about 1,100 calories burned in exercise. On those days, I'm at a deficit.

Liberation is learning how/when to eat so that you can never ever again have to worry about counting calories...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: tanstaafl
Look at the idea behind "bulletproof" coffee for the theory as it pertains to IF. It's supposed to help people keep their hands off food for the full period by giving their stomach something to work on.

Which is flat wrong. Bulletproof coffee breaks the fast - it stops the effects of the IF.

Again, the problem is caused by the insulin spikes. The insulin spikes are caused by ingesting calories - any kind of calories.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Just a quick reply, hopefully I'll get a good chance to research some of this and reply more... Just wanted to say you have a strong case and point with this fasting thing and the insulin spike makes a lot of sense.

I've noticed in the past steady weight loss or sitting comfortable when going decent lengths without eating/drinking calories. Peak fitness I ate sunrise and evening and calorie deficient beverages.

I used to be more susceptible to infections, they lasted longer too but I can only assume that was nutrient related.

IV bags of consciousness... Chemicals take time to dissipate and the 'insulin spike' type of thing is reflected throughout our bodies. I've got plenty to add in this regard. Anyways, brilliant thread!

A light bulb thread, you've shun a light here!

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: tanstaafl
Just wanted to say you have a strong case and point with this fasting thing and the insulin spike makes a lot of sense.

Just wait until you get into it... the science is there, and surprisingly - like the science about saturated fats being very healthy - has been for a long time. It has simply been ignored and/or suppressed.

A light bulb thread, you've shun a light here!

Glad to hear it, if this helps even one person, I'll be happy.

Dr Fung isn't the only one either, and I've heard bits and pieces of different aspects over the years, but it was his book that just put it all together that shone the light for me.

Happy upcoming New Year to you and all!