Uncle Sam: I Want YOU...to believe.

I don’t know precisely when the Robertson panel made their report. They just went three whole days in JAN 53 from the 14th to the 17th. But their conclusion and suggestions here That

...the national security agencies take immediate steps to strip the Unidentified Flying Objects of the special status they have been given and the aura of mystery they have unfortunately acquired;
may be responsible for the first UFO alien-related movie to come out since the panel, and that is the classic: Abbott and Costello go to Mars released in April of 1953!

a reply to: KansasGirl

en.m.wikipedia.org...'s_theorem

a reply to: KansasGirl

what is the core story you are referring to, Ms Kansas?

(Earths core or core as in main hypothesis)?

I have seen both ID and ET. They exist. The ID I have seen with my own eyes were evil.

The ET's unknown but seemed indifferent.

The Earth is wide open and exposed.

Anyone could come here from anywhere if they want to.

If things get real, governments will say and do all kinds of things to mitigate.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed


Can you clarify, ID as evil? What do you mean?

how do you know that ET and ID are not one and the same 😗?

a reply to: play4keeps

what do you think of the David Jacobs hypotheses vs say, Steven Greer or other abductees that regard the experience as benevolent?

I’ll give you my assessment and understanding in a bit.

thank you

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

In your TL;DR, you did this time present an interesting phrase that prompted me to finally respond to one of your treatises on forensic debunking.

spooks need to cover their own asses and ufology need to be reset

I'm very keen to understand what you mean be that.

OK - there can be no TLDR here then.

What I mean by resetting ufology is an operation to dissolve the conspiratorial claims that the US government is covering up the existence of aliens based on all the crazy UFO lore that has existed for decades. To be replaced with one where the formation of the UAP task force is actually to find out what is really going on and the American government are really the good guys in this. Which seems to be the angle TTSA is promoting [if you ignore crazy Tom's outbursts on social media].

Because If you look back into the past, it is well established that certain intelligence agencies have infiltrated ufology in the US (other countries do not have any where near the amount wild sci-fi like stories circulating like America does). And it seems that a symbiotic relationship was developed between the ufotainment industry and America's intelligence agencies. Where the latter feeds the former to provide entertainment.

Then we have the meddling itself....

As examples

● Bennewitz, MJ12 and even Roswell's Offical Govt. report can all be linked to certain individuals in air force intelligence.
● Doty was the point man for sending Bennewitz crazy and accused of disseminating the MJ12 papers. Papers which claim aliens crashed at Roswell and the MJ12 group was formed to deal with the problem.
● Richard Weaver was Doty's boss in the Air Force at that time.
● Weaver told the FBI that the MJ12 documents are bogus without stating any reasons has to how or why he would have known.
● Weaver was the man commissioned to compile the Roswell reports. Yet never mentions MJ12 in them.
● Yet if you look back at Roswell it's nothing much at all. Jesse Marcel only claimed he found unbreakable material that was, in fact, broken and scattered in a field. No second crash site, no aliens.

Plus

● Jacques Vallee (who is also alleged to be involved in the Bennewitz case) claimed in his book Forbidden Science - Volume Four, that he secured a document confirming the CIA simulated UFO abductions in South America.

Also

● The stories from Skinwalker Ranch are rumoured to have been a cover for some form of human experimentation. At least three former guards are on the record with such claims. While before the Shermans and Bigelow and his boys arrived there is little to substantiate that anything unusual happened there.

You can go back to the other cases like Rendlesham [even the HIlls and Boas Vilas abductions] where it is alleged that intelligence agents drugged witnesses and created false stories too.

If some or all of these stories are true and the US want to start cleaning up the mess left behind. Then the perpetrators will also want to conceal anything unethical they may have done.

All this seems more likely to me than telling the world there are aliens. Of which, despite the protestations to the contrary, we still await the proof.

A lot of good & thoughtful replies here. What’s totally off the table for me is any thought that this might be what we might call “Compassionate Disclosure.”

It’s always about control & persuasion. That’s built in. Knowing this is certainly helpful but many don’t/won’t. I think that’s mostly because most folk are decent enough and otherwise preoccupied with the daily issues of survival…and consumerism heh.

That’s not to say that many, maybe even most, don’t also ponder and have a deep longing for answers to the existential questions. Like “are we alone.” I think that’s built in to our nature. As such, however, it makes us potentially exploitable by those seeking to control & persuade.

In my thinking, human nature & the national security mindset would seem to limit the possible motives of what we’re seeing.

I guess we’ll have to wait—and probably not too long—to conclusively deduce what specific direction those two parameters—control & persuasion—are heading.

The only “sin” would be to take any of it at face value, eh?

I got two crazy, stupid ideas...

One, who ever in charge of these shenanigans thinks that the astral, spiritual or metaphysical side of ufo can be controlled by man.

Or, they might actually stage an alien invasion with genetic bioengineerd alien an top secret technology to establish theological an CULT-ural herearchy. Since they get the real thing to kill some people on video.

a reply to: The GUT

TTSA and and more importantly To the Stars Media are so embedded with Intelligence community members it's hard to see them as anything other then a unit set up to push a narrative in the coming years , perhaps it's for the purpose of obfuscation of new technologies or maybe it is just a Psyop.

Jim Semivan, VP of Operations and founder of TTSA.


It'll be interesting to see if this game fully gets off the ground and where it leads , always in the knowledge of who the bearers of these glad , or sad and scary , tidings are.

No doubt those who want to believe will believe , hopefully the rest will hold station until something tangible produced.

a reply to: gortex

hopefully the rest will hold station until something tangible produced.

Stand down and stand by? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

But seriously, what do you mean? Because what else have we been doing?

a reply to: Phage

But seriously, what do you mean? Because what else have we been doing?

I don't expect you or your analytically minded brethren to do anything but hold station and examine what's provided but some weaker mined peons like myself may allow their want to believe to get the better of them.

Don't let me fall Phage !

a reply to: gortex

Roger Wilcox.

(Bullwinkle reference, I think.)

a reply to: gortex

Nicely & succinctly put. Watching that Semivan clip reiterates that these IC-players perpetrating as UFO whistleblowers are definitely not crapping where they eat. Whatever we're seeing has official approval.

I was also struck by his comment: “They give you a lot of testing to make sure that you fit in to a certain profile.”

Stanley Lovell, a CIA recruiter for “Wild Bill” Donovan: “What I have to do is to stimulate the Peck’s Bad Boy beneath the surface of every American scientist and say to him, ‘Throw all your normal law-abiding concepts out the window. Here’s a chance to raise merry hell. Come help me raise it.'”

George Hunter White, writing of his CIA escapades: “I toiled wholeheartedly in the vineyards because it was fun, fun, fun… Where else could a red-blooded American boy lie, kill, cheat, steal, rape and pillage with the sanction and blessing of the all-highest?”

A retired CIA agency caseworker with twenty years experience: “I never gave a thought to legality or morality. Frankly, I did what worked.”

Link

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

In your TL;DR, you did this time present an interesting phrase that prompted me to finally respond to one of your treatises on forensic debunking.

spooks need to cover their own asses and ufology need to be reset

I'm very keen to understand what you mean be that.

OK - there can be no TLDR here then.

What I mean by resetting ufology is an operation to dissolve the conspiratorial claims that the US government is covering up the existence of aliens based on all the crazy UFO lore that has existed for decades. To be replaced with one where the formation of the UAP task force is actually to find out what is really going on and the American government are really the good guys in this. Which seems to be the angle TTSA is promoting [if you ignore crazy Tom's outbursts on social media].

Because If you look back into the past, it is well established that certain intelligence agencies have infiltrated ufology in the US (other countries do not have any where near the amount wild sci-fi like stories circulating like America does). And it seems that a symbiotic relationship was developed between the ufotainment industry and America's intelligence agencies. Where the latter feeds the former to provide entertainment.

Then we have the meddling itself....

As examples

● Bennewitz, MJ12 and even Roswell's Offical Govt. report can all be linked to certain individuals in air force intelligence.
● Doty was the point man for sending Bennewitz crazy and accused of disseminating the MJ12 papers. Papers which claim aliens crashed at Roswell and the MJ12 group was formed to deal with the problem.
● Richard Weaver was Doty's boss in the Air Force at that time.
● Weaver told the FBI that the MJ12 documents are bogus without stating any reasons has to how or why he would have known.
● Weaver was the man commissioned to compile the Roswell reports. Yet never mentions MJ12 in them.
● Yet if you look back at Roswell it's nothing much at all. Jesse Marcel only claimed he found unbreakable material that was, in fact, broken and scattered in a field. No second crash site, no aliens.

Plus

● Jacques Vallee (who is also alleged to be involved in the Bennewitz case) claimed in his book Forbidden Science - Volume Four, that he secured a document confirming the CIA simulated UFO abductions in South America.

Also

● The stories from Skinwalker Ranch are rumoured to have been a cover for some form of human experimentation. At least three former guards are on the record with such claims. While before the Shermans and Bigelow and his boys arrived there is little to substantiate that anything unusual happened there.

You can go back to the other cases like Rendlesham [even the HIlls and Boas Vilas abductions] where it is alleged that intelligence agents drugged witnesses and created false stories too.

If some or all of these stories are true and the US want to start cleaning up the mess left behind. Then the perpetrators will also want to conceal anything unethical they may have done.

All this seems more likely to me than telling the world there are aliens. Of which, despite the protestations to the contrary, we still await the proof.

Hmmm, OK, thanks for your reply. I can agree with you that the history/mythology of UFOs and the "spooks" is inextricably linked. "Uncle Sam" as we refer to him in this thread, has done himself no favors over the years with how conducted investigations, gathered data, "solicited" witness accounts (i.e. telling people what they 'REALLY' saw, or else...), supplied obvious B.S. cover stories for sightings, bungled P.R. and generally fouled up the handling of the phenomenon.

It's now my turn to put on the skeptic hat, and I postulate that it's virtually impossible for the role of a sovereign government, let alone the US government, to play the part of "the good guys" in researching and addressing UFO claims. For the US gov't in particular, it is inherently in their interest, from a national defense point of view, to obfuscate and muddy the waters, because then they get to retain the aura and mystique and impenetrable mystery of just how advanced our military tech might be, by blurring the line between potential R&D black projects and UFOs. And from a sociological angle, and this has been repeated over and over by researchers/pundits/authors/observers, it's an unflattering look when governments cannot sufficiently explain "what's going on". It tends to erode confidence among the populace in governing authorities who may plead "we don't know what these are; we don't know what to do". The devil's advocate position would say, even WORSE than admitting the truth of ignorance/impotence WRT to UFOs, would be to feign control and understanding and fabricating lies, distorting and hiding facts about the phenomenon. If this is the basis of your skepticism, I can dig it.

One point of contention I have about the Skinwalker case. I would disagree with the notion that not much unusual happened there prior to Bigelow and the Shermans. The local Native American tribes (Utes IIRC) had many many legends about strange occurrences in that area that predate even the ranching communities that sprung up there. Also, in George Knapp's book, they recount the stories of a local high school teacher ("Junior" was the guys name if I'm remembering the book correctly) who had informally tracked and catalogued a large number of sightings in the area going back to the mid 20th century, including repeated disruptions to local classes where students and faculty would gawk out windows at UFO sightings. I've no idea if the Bigelow project was on the level or not, but there did seem to be some basis in localized oddities to that area before he showed up.

a reply to: mirageman

Jacques Vallee (who is also alleged to be involved in the Bennewitz case) claimed in his book Forbidden Science - Volume Four, that he secured a document confirming the CIA simulated UFO abductions in South America.

And it's in SA where JV recently just said on that interview that UFOS have killed people. I say those were NOT Ufos but likely some IC group testing or abusing South American citizens. Maybe in what they call nonlethal weapons.

The CIA and the IC are always all over UFO stuff.
Just recently, that History channel doc about Roswell. What do we have? The principal researcher, an ex-CIA guy. The leading commentator Kevin Randle who wrote, they say, 80 books, is also an ex-IC guy.


I wonder, in other countries do ex-intelligence people litter the field?


It's clear to me this is intentional. By golly!... It's written in the Robertson panel report!

WHAT DO PEOPLE HAVE TO SEE to be convinced of this reality?

The IC community is not only all over UFology, littering it like a bad roach infestation but is deliberately doing it!

a reply to: The GUT
Well, this field of study seems to suggest that A LOT of “Paranormal” phenomenon is connected it(Be it UFOs/Aliens, Interdimensional beings/timeslips/Fae and ancient myths/lore, NDEs/nature of consciousness...etc)

How do you think Humanity and the scientific community would react to knowing that theirs MUCH MORE to the universe then just “nuts & bolts” and “materialistic” views? That death no longer should be something to be afraid of? That we’ve been interacting with “others” for much of Humanities history? Society would completely turn on its head...

a reply to: johnthejedi24

I think the scientific community would be fascinated. If there were something that could actually be studied.

Humanity, I think, likes to believe there is "something more." That's why religion is so popular.

thank you