Final Conclusions Regarding UFOs

a reply to: Phage

Who are 'they'?

In your opinion, what do 'they' 'know'?

I'd love to hear your opinion.

BTW... "semantic content null" was what was printed out by a computer, after analyzing a treaty,
in "The Foundation Trilogy" - it's one of my favorite things of all time.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thanks for the compliment (hoping it wasn't backhanded, hard to tell sometimes).

You aren't very specific so there aren't and specific holes to find, really.

Yes, a difficult topic indeed. The fact that the primary source of evidence is eyewitness reports is highly problematic. Combined with fact that these phenomena are fleeting and highly varied precludes formation of any single theory about an origin, or even that they are related to each other on any broad basis.

With what we have to go on, your guess is as good as mine. My guess is that it is all "of this world." Our tech (real or claimed), odd weather tricks, that sort of thing.

Frankly, I don't find anything highly strange. There are the known laws of physics, and yet to be discovered laws of physics. 500 years ago, an iPhone would be 'highly strange' and would get you burned for witchcraft too.

Now, a bit more on 'weak EM remnant'; I often use that as an example, because most people have some idea what that means. It's not in fact what I mean at all, it's a metaphor (that's the reason for the quotes).

Increasingly there are new TOE (theories of everything) in physics, that are what is called 'background independent', this means that a 'backdrop' of space/time is not assumed or necessary.. and that is due to the split between General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

They cannot currently be reconciled. The only way (it appears) to reconcile them, would be to eliminate space/time or to eliminate 'Quantum Mechanics'.

That's what background independent TOE do..

One common variant of background independent TOE basically states that there is this giant web of QM entangled 'goo'
something like an Bose-Einsten condensate as an example.

In such as case, if that were an accurate representation of 'reality',

and since observation certainly affects QM outcomes,

one might EASILY postulate, that human or other thought might imprint on
the 'bose-einstein-ish' condensate of entangled particles/whatever that comprises what 'physical reality' actually is..

Or I could say 'weak EM remnant'. That's why I say that.

Kev

a reply to: Phage

It's possible to research this stuff. People do it, and its not entirely hopeless.

But granted.. the human capacity for self-delusion is nearly infinite, and as Arby
says, humans are poor observers.

I myself?

I think that not 95% of 'UFOs' are purely prosaic, but closer to 99%.

If pressed?

The only 'ufo encounter' I'm willing to say wasn't a perceptual error, was my own,

and I've had to peel away large bucketfulls of possible bias and misperception
from my own 'encounter'.

I'm thinking it likely that there are various 'paranormal ufos', as ive talked with people, and read reports of incidents that included elements similar to my own 'encounter' -- the waking walking/talking paralysis.. the static electricity right before.. a number of unusual factors.

And of course, as JV said, and he was correct, people SELDOM report these sorts of effects.. they keep it to themsleves.

To bad there was no "down vote" option on this post.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

and since observation certainly affects QM outcomes,

Yes. It is difficult to measure quantum conditions without affecting them. Impossible, in fact. Please don't say that you think it has something to do with consciousness.


But, yes most of us do hope to leave some sort of impression behind. I have a daughter.

a reply to: Phage

Purely genuine.

a reply to: Phage

I'm not a 'quantum conscious nutjob'.

In fact, I'm not a 'consciousness worshipper' at all.

And I don't like using the term 'quantum' at all.

People have turned it into religion.

That's not what I do.

a reply to: Phage

The easiest way to describe measurement affecting QM, is to simply say that the probes or whatever disrupt the system.

However there have been other verified experiments that demonstrate, that things are not that simple.

a reply to: w810i

There is - just don't read it, if it doesn't suit your taste.

I 'down vote' most UFO forum posts by not reading or supporting them.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

My guess is that it is all "of this world." Our tech (real or claimed), odd weather tricks, that sort of thing.

I dunno. What I saw in 1964 — I’d say was beyond our (known) ability at that time.

You know I’m very non-drama, straight forward.

Broad daylight, some wispy high clouds in a clear blue skies, about 4:30 in the afternoon. I was picking up my mom from work. Sitting in my car, looking up to the sky.

I saw a whitish/yellowish glowing disk. At first I thought it was one of those big searchlights they used to use for advertising. It moved across the sky, in what appeared to be a half circle, hung for a bit, then returned to it starting point. No sound that I could hear.

But, then it went straight up until I couldn’t see it anymore.

If it happened today, I’d say it was a drone. But, we were barely computer literate in 1964.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'm relieved to hear that. I think I'm getting a better handle on your point of view.

Theosophy and its ilk are the bane of critical thinking. Distort some difficult concepts of science, add a bunch of metaphysical babble, and some are irresistibly attracted to it.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
All available information (and there's a fair amount of it) indicates that the USG is a Russian Doll within Doll sort of thing, where everyone assumes there is something there, if ONLY they had higher clearance, while the final guy with ridiculous clearance, also wishes to find someone more in the know than they themselves are. In the final analysis, if you take out 'metaphysical things', you are left with only the Null Hypothesis.

This is what happens when you have zero physical proof. We are still stuck around the eyewitness phase and so the only direction to go is cover up using layer after layer of clearances protecting all the goodies.

Regarding the USG and Metaphysical Things
The USG has been infiltrating occult groups since forever, and there certainly have been many of the same individuals referenced in the previous section who are poking around with ghosts and such, on the taxpayer's dime. Now there are the two major divisions, that being the Christian "it's all demons" (and some Gnostics "It's Archons") and then the non-religiously inclined pseudoscience/occultists types.

I highly suspect that the reason the USG isn't 'interested in the 'real UFOs' is that they have chased it around a whole bunch, and while they 'believe in it', Casper has not cooperate for them either, and has not allowed himself to be captured and dissected for them either.

But if 'real disclosure' is something like "sometimes occult critters / ghosts" really exist, that's the LAST thing the USG would put out there. Instead, they'd ram nuts and bolts UFOs down our throats, which is exactly what they've been doing since day one.

Now of course, the false belief in nuts and bolts UFOs has been vigorously put forward by the USG, (either by promoting as in Rosewell) or even more effectively by denying (you want what is denied to you), to cover black project operations.

People keep missing a third group of what UFOs could be... Machines... The universe, evolution and time isn't very kind to species as they come and go rather quickly in general terms even when life is most likely there anyplace the conditions are right.

Machines on the other hand are not effected by these same detrimental forces that really play havoc with life. Two billion years ago an advance species could have impregnated the universe with self replicating AI with the purpose to collect data. It is suggest in two billion years they could be just about every where in some never ending quest to send data back to a race long gone by billion of years. This makes the most sense to me in the size and behavior of what we typically call UFOs along with no need to contact us in anyway as they accomplish their mission. They could be so far advance that we just can not catch one of the little F'er, but could you imagine the technical knowledge we could gain, or worst one nation getting this knowledge... This could be the Goverment side in everyone would love to get one and use it to their advantage.

Good or Evil Spirits
If there really is something 'spiritual' out there, whether you want to call it 'spirit' or 'demon' or 'djinn' or 'plasma' or 'Boltzmann brains'; it doesn't matter what you call it, all those concepts are wrong IMHO, the question always comes down to, are the 'hypothetical spirits' 'good' or 'evil'?

Well, humans killed about 1 billion cattle in the year 2014; those innocent, peaceful, inoffensive cattle.. I had one as a pet as a kid.. it licked my hand and wanted me to pet it. Later that year, I found it's carcass hanging upside down from tree as it was being skinned and gutted by my stepfather. The same stepfather who killed my pet rabbit, fried it up and forced me to eat it.

So are humans 'evil'? the cattle would probably think so, if they were a bit more aware.

That evil race that goes to another planet that rapes and pillages all its natural resources while eating anything that moves....Is us....lol We are the Velociraptors of the mammal world.

We've no evidence that sort of thinking is rational or effective in any way. Living creatures compete with some, predate on some, and cooperate with some.. if 'hypothetical spirits' exist, almost certainly they would live based on 'self-interest' like any other living thing, and it would be pointless to call them 'good or evil'.

I always thought that the story of Adam and Eve was a evolutionary one. They left the Garden of the animal world when they became self-aware and started to explain human acts in terms of Good or Evil. The reality is Good/Evil is a very grey area as just about anything can be either depending on the perspective of the people doing the acts. As example Meno, Socrates and Plato all had slave boys that took care of them and that they use sexually... very normal back then...So Good/Evil is whatever you feel it should be...

a reply to: Phage

Yes, sir.

I've had many rude awakening in my life..

when I was young, I had the misfortune to read Theosophy, and I rapidly came to the conclusion that I had 'etheric vision'.

Well what I had were eye floaters, a very common thing.

I'm always the first person to debunk myself.

Another great example is 'Kundalini'.

Yes -- there is something 'amazing' at work there.

My old mentor told me, to figure out scientifically how it works, to dispel ignorance.

Well, I think that I largely have.

I did such a good job, that my 'old mentor' threw me out, as I had debunked nearly all
of the religious aspects of it, leaving it a mostly (or entirely) simple physiological process.

I'd like to think that I'm a mostly rational researcher doing his best with 'impossible' topics,
but I have biases too. I'm a 'fringe nutjob' I suppose, but I strive for actual results, and don't
force my thinking on anyone.

That's mostly why I'm not writing a book like so many ask for.. I do not wish to force my
thinking on anyone..

I don't want to titilate some child, like I was, to take Theosophy seriously, and to derail
their life, like my life was derailed.

Yet.. there's something 'here'. And solving the mystery would, ultimately be very helpful.

Kev

a reply to: Annee

I have no doubt you saw something. But human eyes are simply no good at determining the size, distance, and velocity of an object in the sky without some point of reference. Adding the "filter" of memory to something that occurred 56 years ago makes it more problematic.

Maybe what you saw was something extraordinary. Maybe it was something entirely mundane. It happens.

Pertinent story I've told here a few times:

While walking down to the beach one fine summer day I came upon a group of people looking up with their hands shading their eyes from the Sun and pointing at the sky. I looked up but couldn't see anything. As I got closer to them I could hear comments; "It's huge!", "Look how fast it's going!"

Really curious now, I asked what they were looking at. One of them said, "It's a UFO. Look, right there." I looked. I saw. A black toy balloon about 10" in diameter and maybe 100' in the air, drifting with the wind.

The observers had made the assumption that this was a very large object. Going from that assumption, because it looked so small, it must be very high in the sky. From there, its motion must be very fast instead of just drifting with the wind, the way balloons do. As a group, they had come to the wrong conclusion about what they were looking at. Their excited chatter feeding the illusion.

I said, "Um, I think it's a balloon." There was an immediate, "Yeah, right. Look how big it is." But then there were some abashed giggles as the observers' perspective changed. The group dispersed as the balloon passed under a cloud, making it obvious what was being seen.

Nuts an bolts ET alien flying machines --- for the most part --- don't violate the laws pf physics...simply because they generate their own magnetic and plasma shields that mimic no rest mass; which gives them the power to operate independently from Earth's own gravitational pull and atmosphere.

a reply to: Annee

Was sound mostly missing in the environment around you? or just no sound from the 'craft'?

Mostly muted sound in the environment around you is a symptom of 'high strangeness'.

a reply to: Phage

I had a similar experience.

Once many years ago, everyone in my car pointed at a UFO.

it was night, and the lights were amazingly bright and were doing amazing things.

Then, we came over a small hill and saw that it was a farming implement (a corn binder).

The illusion went poof.

I ever keep that in mind.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

I did not find Commander Fluffers delicious. I've never had rabbit since.

Never ask the name of the person you plan on eating too.... Just saying...

a reply to: Xtrozero

DEFINITELY!