Is Tesla's Coil Really Feasible?

a reply to: rounda

The coils physically oscillate.

Perhaps in response to the alternating current. But that would be a side effect. What oscillates is the electrical current.
onetesla.com...

Electrical energy is not kinetic energy (except in the very broadest of terms, perhaps) and it is not electromagnetic energy. Tesla did seem to have problems with those distinctions.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rounda

The coils physically oscillate.

Perhaps in response to the alternating current. But that would be a side effect. What oscillates is the electrical current.

Electrical energy is not kinetic energy (except in the very broadest of terms, perhaps) and it is not electromagnetic energy. Tesla did seem to have problems with those distinctions.

I didn’t say kinetic energy is electrical energy, did I?

I said he figured out to how store the kinetic energy as electro-magnetic energy.

Movement is kinetic energy.

He figured out how to efficiently store the kinetic energy.

Resonance happens when two different energy modes are stored and transferred. In this case, electrical and kinetic.

Hence, the resonant transformer.

a reply to: rounda

Tesla believed magnetism was the driving force of the universe.

He also believed that radio would never have any useful purpose. He also believed a pigeon was an angel.

But he was a brilliant engineer. No doubt.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rounda

Tesla believed magnetism was the driving force of the universe.

He also believed that radio would never have any useful purpose. He also believed a pigeon was an angel.

But he was a brilliant engineer. No doubt.

You should go investigate what the Tesla coil actually is.

Here’s a hint: an electromagnetic induction device.

a reply to: rounda

Electrical and magnetic induction. Yes.

onetesla.com...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rounda

Electrical and magnetic induction. Yes.

onetesla.com...

Read the words in your own link.

A resonant circuit is like a tuning fork: it has a very strong amplitude response at one particular frequency, called the resonant or natural frequency. In the case of the tuning fork, the tines vibrate strongly when excited at a frequency determined by its dimensions and the material properties. A resonant circuit achieves the highest voltages when driven at its natural frequency, which is determined by the value of its components.

Inductors store energy in the form of a magnetic field around a wire, or in the middle of a loop of wire. The primary inductor in the oneTesla 10” coil is six turns of AWG14 wire, and the secondary is approximately 1800 turns of AWG36 wire.

And what is resonance?

Resonance occurs when a system is able to store and easily transfer energy between two or more different storage modes (such as kinetic energy and potential energy in the case of a simple pendulum).

en.m.wikipedia.org...

So again, Tesla figured out how to efficiently store the kinetic energy from the coils and transform it to electro-magnetic energy.

Or, “radiant” energy... as was the subject of nearly all his later work.

a reply to: rounda

A resonant circuit achieves the highest voltages when driven at its natural frequency, which is determined by the value of its components.

Not kinetic energy. The circuit is driven by electricity.

So again, Tesla figured out how to efficiently store the kinetic energy from the coils and transform it to electro-magnetic energy.

No. But he did, I think, design generators which would convert kinetic energy into electricity. Those generators powered his coils.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rounda

A resonant circuit achieves the highest voltages when driven at its natural frequency, which is determined by the value of its components.

Not kinetic energy. The circuit is driven by electricity.

So again, Tesla figured out how to efficiently store the kinetic energy from the coils and transform it to electro-magnetic energy.

No.

Again, how does resonance work?

Electrical charge on the copper wire makes them move.

When the copper wire and electrical charge are both at the right frequency, you get increased energy.

And where is the energy stored?

In a magnetic field around the coiled wire.

So again.

Tesla figured out how to take the kinetic energy from the copper and store it as electro-magnetic energy.

You can argue all you want, but you’re wrong.

Without the kinetic energy, resonance doesn’t occur. And the excess energy can’t be stored in the magnetic field, because there would be no excess energy, only the initial voltage from the supply. In fact, you would loses energy from the resistance or impedance.

a reply to: rounda

Again, how does resonance work?

When the natural frequency of a circuit matches the frequency of the driving current. It is the electrical current which resonates.

A resonant circuit achieves the highest voltages when driven at its natural frequency, which is determined by the value of its components.

Those components being capacitors which, very briefly, store the electrical current. That is the oscillation. Current flow, current not flow, current flow, current not flow.

Without the kinetic energy, resonance doesn’t occur.

Incorrect.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rounda

Again, how does resonance work?

When the natural frequency of a circuit matches the frequency of the driving current. It is the electrical current which resonates.

Without the kinetic energy, resonance doesn’t occur.

Incorrect.

Yes, the natural frequency of the physical medium the current is traveling through....

I.E., it’s vibration... kinetic energy...

When the kinetic energy matches the electrical energy, you get higher amplitude... resonance....

And again, what is resonance?

Resonance occurs when a system is able to store and easily transfer energy between two or more different storage modes

Electrical and kinetic. Transferred to radiant.

“ If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration”

-Tesla

a reply to: rounda

He was a brilliant engineer but he got a lot of things wrong about the theory. He did not understand electromagnetic energy, for example.


" I had only to wish and call her and she would come flying to me. I loved that pigeon as a man loves a woman, and she loved me. As long as I had her, there was a purpose to my life.”

-Tesla

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rounda

He was a brilliant engineer but he got a lot of things wrong about the theory. He did not understand electromagnetic energy, for example.


" I had only to wish and call her and she would come flying to me. I loved that pigeon as a man loves a woman, and she loved me. As long as I had her, there was a purpose to my life.”

-Tesla

It’s pretty clear he did understand it. Which is why the Tesla coil works the way it does.

I’m sorry you don’t.

a reply to: rounda

That's electricity. Not electromagnetic energy. He was very good with electricity, not so much with electromagnetic energy.

The Hertz wave theory of wireless transmission may be kept up for a while, but I do not hesitate to say that in a short time it will be recognized as one of the most remarkable and inexplicable aberrations of the scientific mind which has ever been recorded in history.

www.tfcbooks.com...

a reply to: Night Star

This guy seems to have it working. With his explanation it looks almost easy. The scalar waves. Eeeeasy.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rounda

That's electricity. Not electromagnetic energy. He was very good with electricity, not so much with electromagnetic energy.

The Hertz wave theory of wireless transmission may be kept up for a while, but I do not hesitate to say that in a short time it will be recognized as one of the most remarkable and inexplicable aberrations of the scientific mind which has ever been recorded in history.

www.tfcbooks.com...

Electromagnetic energy is radiant energy... and it was the subject of all his later work...

You should really read the first link you posted. It lays it out pretty clearly.

Electromagnetic induction. Go study it. When your own link disagrees with what you are saying, you should probably stop.

onetesla.com...

a reply to: rounda

I'm quite aware of what electromagnetic induction is. It is not the same as electromagnetic energy. But it's easy to get confused. Tesla was.

What is Electromagnetic energy?

Electromagnetic energy travels in waves and spans a broad spectrum from very long radio waves to very short gamma rays. The human eye can only detect only a small portion of this spectrum called visible light. A radio detects a different portion of the spectrum, and an x-ray machine uses yet another portion. NASA's scientific instruments use the full range of the electromagnetic spectrum to study the Earth, the solar system, and the universe beyond.

science.nasa.gov...

Tesla was good with electricity. Electromagnetic radiation, not so much. He didn't understand it. Didn't want to. It would cause problems with other of his notions.

originally posted by: Night Star
Oh, he wants to know how many tesla coils woud it take to generate enough electricity to cover the world? And...can it supply high voltage enough to supply heavy machinery with thousands of volts? If it's capable to do this, what would it do to the eco system such as birds and small animals as well as people and the atmosphere?

I already explained that the tesla coils are a very inefficient system that only works at close ranges, and Tesla himself was well aware of this. That's why he did not have the idea of multiple units. Look at his drawing I posted of how he thought his system would work, he could use his one tower to send power through the entire Earth.

If Tesla's science was right, you could just stick something in the ground in, say, south Africa and collect the energy he was pumping into the ground in North America from his big tower. Remember this drawing of Tesla's from my earlier post?



Here's an enlargement of the part where someone in a remote part of the world is collecting power, from that big tower at the top, Tesla thought that one central station could supply the entire world!


Here's what the caption says:
"Tesla's Wireless Transmission Theory

The oscillating energy surges thru the Earth to every point on the globe. Thus, electric light, heat, and power can be drawn at any point of the Earth from a universal central station."

So the answer using Tesla's flawed concept to "Oh, he wants to know how many tesla coils woud it take to generate enough electricity to cover the world?" was one. But Tesla's science was wrong.

Tesla knew the tesla coils, without using the ground, only had a very limited range, so he know it would take too many of those. If you want to know how many of those it would take using good science, the answer is, too many.

As Phage said, Tesla also had another idea using balloons, but that was also based on bad science. Tesla didn't know where the ionosphere was and it's much higher than he thought, and that idea had other problems too.

The problem with using tesla coils is not just the limited range, though that is a problem. It's also the efficiency.
For you to run a 1000 watt electric heater in your home, the power generating plant has to generate maybe 1100 watts, and 100 watts or so is lost in heat in the power lines.

Using tesla coils, the specifics matter but for a general idea, the power station might have to generate 2000 watts for you to run that same heater, so your power bill might double just from that efficiency problem. After accounting for all the tesla coil power distribution stations they would need you probably couldn't afford your power bill, because as I said we would need too many of them.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: rounda

I'm quite aware of what electromagnetic induction is. It is not the same as electromagnetic energy. But it's easy to get confused. Tesla was.

What is Electromagnetic energy?

Electromagnetic energy travels in waves and spans a broad spectrum from very long radio waves to very short gamma rays. The human eye can only detect only a small portion of this spectrum called visible light. A radio detects a different portion of the spectrum, and an x-ray machine uses yet another portion. NASA's scientific instruments use the full range of the electromagnetic spectrum to study the Earth, the solar system, and the universe beyond.

science.nasa.gov...

Tesla was good with electricity. Electromagnetic radiation, not so much. He didn't understand it. Didn't want to.

And what is an electromagnetic field? Like the one involved with the Tesla coil?

You know... electromagnetic induction?

Or, just stop arguing. In fact, don’t even bother. I’ll just stop responding to you. It’s clear you don’t know how the Tesla coil works.

originally posted by: Night Star
Yes It's me Night Star here in the science and technology forum. I'm actually asking a question for Hubby.

He would like to know, that if Tesla was to accomplish his goal of free electricity for the world, would he change the world's atmosphere?
Hubby says he is pretty sure that high voltage electricity makes ozone. Mankind can't breathe ozone, so how would Tesla's coil work?

Tesla's Wardencliffe Tower used the Earth and the Atmosphere as dipoles.

Also, I think that arc discharges would represent a massive environmental power loss for wireless power transmission, so they would work on ways to minimize it.

But, yes, you can form ozone by ionizing air.

Also, Faraday, Gauss, Ampere and Maxwell all contributed to our understandings of electromagnetism with functional equations that are used to this day.

They all pre-dated Tesla's ideas.

Tesla's electrical inventions were already fully described in those equations.

Also, Westinghouse's invention of the solid-state diode (based upon Ferdinand Braun's observations) enabled the alternating current of Tesla's generators to be rectified down to something useable for electrical devices other than motors.

Without Westinghouse's bit of unremembered genius, and his financial support, Tesla would be forgotten by history.

a reply to: chr0naut

Tesla's Wardencliffe Tower used the Earth and the Atmosphere as dipoles.

He wasn't concerned much with dipoles, actually. Though functionally that's sort of how it might have worked if it were at all practical, that's not how he envisioned it. See the article that Arb posted.