Forgiveness

Does anyone here think it's *really* all that easy to forgive someone? I'll not post Websters meaning, you can look it up and decide from there(if you don't really know what it means) But I can tell you this; Forgiving goes hand and hand with another verb. I'll also let you figure that one out...

But with all that said and done if someone *wrongs* you, Can you *truly* forgive them? I'd really like to know someone here who 'has' truly forgiven someone.
Please post on...
Magestica

I used to think that it was impossible NOT to forgive someone.

I mean they do something wrong and you simply go "oh well it's happend, let it not happen again."

I later learned it's more the other way with me.

I'll never leave someone's side it seems, regardless of the crap they do, but I can never forgive them for their faults.

But it doesn't oddly, hamper any real relationship, it just means that I expect them to be making up for their past in their own way I guess

Just like I try to make up for my past in my own way, and don't expect forgiveness from anyone.

Which is why it is so hard to actually let someone down, it would seem easier to commit hari kari than to spend the time it would take to make it all up again lol...

Forgiveness = Something you say to make someone fell better but don't really mean it.

Forgiveness is a character trait that it used to signify your maturity.

Forget = you never do, you just find things to fill in the gap after the initial betrayal.

Glad you're honest You hear people say all the time "I'm sorry" and "Yes, I forgive you" But they are merely words with no real truth or meaning to back it up..I am also finding it difficult to believe *people* can actually forgive. If you think about someone who really hurt you or wronged you and they asked you to forgive them, most likely you'd say yes, I'll try atleast. You hear some people say Yes, I do forgive you, then later on down the road you realize they must have not forgiven you because it's brought up again and again..

What *I* think-and the reason I posted this-is that it's impossible to actually and truly forgive someone. You can't, unless that memory is taken from your mind some how? So why bother saying it? Just to appease yourself for the moment, or the one you are telling it to?
Mag

Forgiving is an odd word.

It seems to be defined contrary to how it is really used.

If you literally meant "I forgive you" then yes you'd never be bothered by it again (which is completely untrue because all that we are is effected by our choices as well as other peoples choices...and we can't change who we are.)

So I think that Forgiveness is more of a social thing, a way of saying "It's over, let's move on as best we can."

So it's more of a contract, to admitt with eachother that now that unpleasant part of you is also part of your past, and now you'll have to take other steps in life, that wouldn't have been necessary if it had never happend.

I have forgiven a few people in my lifetime. I have found that it is in my nature to give people another chance. Ever heard of that saying that goes something like screw me over once then shame on you screw me over again then shame on me?(paraphrased)
Well it has something to do with that. I have had to really take into consideration what really was happening with that person that did that to me. What really caused the issues that caused us to have a falling out. From there perspective I look into the situation and weigh the options. Is there friendship/relationship important to me . If it is then i have to search within myself and ask if its worth the energy of not forgiving.
I know im just rambling but i cant quite put it into words the real defintion of Forgiveness. I think you would have to use it as it applies to you in your situation.

Great post! Great way of looking at it and dealing with it..
That's just it, there's actually more to forgiving someone then there seems. It's not just one feeling or word, that requires you to actually forgive someone-it's many. As you said, you have to first *try* to understand why they did what they did, how important they are to you, are you able to forget what they did and move on or start over. So all these things and more should be taken into consideration before telling someone you forgive them-and meaning it! You are right though, it takes a very strong person to forgive someone and truly mean it. For it is something extremely hard to do or feel, especially if they've hurt you badly..

Good for you Marko
Magestica

Is Forgetting a pre-requisite to Forgiveness??

Good question...

I do believe it is possible to forgive others for wrongs they may have committed against you...otherwise, how can we expect others to forgive us of the wrongs we have committed against them...more importantly, how do we forgive ourselves if we hold the belief that forgiveness is not possible?? Are we then burdened with that 'unsatisfied debt' for the remainder of our mortal lives??


As Marko pointed out, so very well indeed, we should try to understand what caused that person to do whatever they did...and to ascertain what that person means to us, weighing up the energy it needs to forgive - and truly commit to the spirit of forgiveness - compared with the loss of that person within our lives/heart.

How important are they? How important also is our need NOT to forgive...for that is a question few ask themselves...sometimes we NEED that reluctance to forgive someone...it fulfills some need within us to harbour that wrong, to cling to it and not let it go. At least for a while anyway...

...its almost like grieving in a way...emotions don't have a time-frame, we can't truly forgive until we have worked through them...which takes a whole lot more than saying "I forgive you"...sometimes we need that time to rage, to be angry, to feel cheated etc etc...its just part of the process towards forgiveness.


As for forgiveness...yes...totally believe it possible, for there are things, very painful things, that I have forgive people in my life for. Truly forgiven them. For in my heart there is love for them...and that burns away the seeds of hatred, of debt and of guilt...



Peace,
ALIEN

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by alien]

It all depends what the person has done........

If someone hurt someone that I loved, NO, I would never forgive them. If someone ran over my cat, NO, I would punch their lights out and never forgive them.

But, if someone makes a genuine mistake and acts out of character, then yes, I think I would forgive them. All depends who they are and how much they mean to me.

There are far too many bitter people in this world that hold grudges for the most ridiculous reasons, I'm not one of them. Why bother, life is too short.

Hmmmmm if i make a mistake i apologise but if they dont accept my apology thats up to them same with forgiveness i dont ask 4 it if i am forgiven then gr8.

Originally posted by Pocket
There are far too many bitter people in this world that hold grudges for the most ridiculous reasons, I'm not one of them. Why bother, life is too short.

...so very well said...and so very true. Harbouring hatred...denying forgiveness can be poison to our minds/body/soul...


...as the prayer goes: "...forgive us our tresspasses...as we forgive those who tresspass against us..."

But obviously not if they were to run over my cat Mitsie.

I would kick their lips in and NEVER forgive them!

Gee whiz , you guys are so profound and deep...there is just so much love here you can just feel it. Anyone care to join in a sing a long. We can sing "We are the world or a john denver song

GO THE DANCING CHICKEN!!!!


...okay...I said it was random...

Ahhh dancing chick is back cool, you succmbed to our(ATS MEMBERS REQUESTS)

You guys are really great you know that.
I really enjoy coming here and getting to know you,
thanks for liking my avatar.

You guys rock!!

Is an action, a choice. Not mearly some verbal mumbo. It has to be an honest, sincear, and true choice. To ask for forgiveness, is to place yourself at anothers mercy. thats my feelings on this subject, Mag.

Sometimes, it's best if we can just forgive ourselves...

Real forgiveness is hard; especially if some one has wounded you emotionally - like they wounded your inner self - that's the hardest. I think eventually a person can get to forgiveness, though - and I think it does take a level of forgetting.

I read this once and liked it a lot:

"The man who can't remember is far more blessed than the man who can't forget."

Main thing for me is, holding bad feelings toward another person (even if they have truly wronged me) takes to much energy that I could be using elsewhere.

I'm curious though how many people who might post to this thread have really and truly been harmed by another person in a way that could be arguably "unforgivable". I mean are you talking about holding petty little things like running over your cat against people?

Originally posted by Pocket
But obviously not if they were to run over my cat Mitsie.

I would kick their lips in and NEVER forgive them!

absolutely! if anyone were to hurt one of my cats, they'd be lucky to survive my wrath!

on another note, forgiveness is sometimes a coming to terms with another person's faults. take family members for instance, there's no one who can hurt you as much as someone you love, but sometimes it makes life easier to just say "oh, that's just the way he/she is." than going around wanting to throttle said family member for every indescretion. (does that make sense? )

I hear many people here saying that if one could forget than one will have forgiven. That is not true at all. Forgetting in that respect can be deemed as a defense mechanism. We all know that defense mechanisms alter the truth for our sanity. So we can't say that since we have forgotten something that we have forgiven. We have merely got over it. Just because we got over it so to speak doesn't mean we have truly given up on our own inner beliefs.

For when we have a problem with someone for some reason and we can't seem forgive them then it is our belief that we can't and or shouldn't do so for sake of our own pride and or integrity. The idea of not forgiving is just a selfish vainity and really nothing more. Eventually if you have any inclination or concern of the feelings of those that one finds it hard to forgive then one will have to understand that the lack of forgiveness on your part is unnecassary and self defeating. For in the end we all must come back to terms with one another.

This may be beyond your perception of the conception of the world but hear this:

This world is not going to be seperated for long. In the end we all come back to one entity. That one entity is the One. The only true God is that One. If one wants to be apart of that One, and one will, one must accept that this world can't be split in anyway. Not one!!!!!!

Everything must come back to itself for we all came from that One. So to not forgive is to keep one back from the Oneness that this world is and will be in the end.



Love,
Abraham Virtue

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Abraham Virtue]