There is no actual evidence of voter fraud; here's how we know:

originally posted by: Willtell
Another point folks don’t ever bring up is if you say Biden side cheated or the election has been rigged from the Dem side,
then what about the possibility of the Trump side cheating?

We know Trump has a background of cheating. We know he is an inveterate liar…
We know he is a long and short con man.

So, if one is going to investigate if one side cheated, you have to explore the possibility the other side cheated too.

I think everyone is suggesting to find it either way...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Willtell
Another point folks don’t ever bring up is if you say Biden side cheated or the election has been rigged from the Dem side,
then what about the possibility of the Trump side cheating?

We know Trump has a background of cheating. We know he is an inveterate liar…
We know he is a long and short con man.

So, if one is going to investigate if one side cheated, you have to explore the possibility the other side cheated too.

I think everyone is suggesting to find it either way...

I mean, I have no reason to believe that Trump cheated or attempted to (except to the extent that his requests to legislatures to overrule the election results could be considered cheating!)

a reply to: johnnylaw16


Tons of evidence. What are you talking about?

originally posted by: johnnylaw16
Thirty-five pages deep and nearly 700 posts later, we have had no one come forward with anything to rebut the points made in the OP.

We've had a lot of bluster, a bit of name calling, and very few substantive challenges to my points. Though through it all, I think it's fair to say, that my points still hold up.

Looking forward to see if anyone wants to come forward with any substantive challenges, or if anyone even wants to ask anymore questions.

So what is happening in GA right now? I'm not here to prove or disprove either way, I want it to play out and come what may. They have video of election workers processing ballots pulled out from under a covered table after everyone including the poll watchers were all sent home for the night. During that time they look to be counting these ballots from the containers for a few hours until the others return. It is estimated they can do 3000+ an hour. Seems the Governor is looking to do a recount based on signatures now...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: johnnylaw16
Thirty-five pages deep and nearly 700 posts later, we have had no one come forward with anything to rebut the points made in the OP.

We've had a lot of bluster, a bit of name calling, and very few substantive challenges to my points. Though through it all, I think it's fair to say, that my points still hold up.

Looking forward to see if anyone wants to come forward with any substantive challenges, or if anyone even wants to ask anymore questions.

So what is happening in GA right now? I'm not here to prove or disprove either way, I want it to play out and come what may.
They have video of election workers processing ballots pulled out from under a covered table after everyone including the poll watchers were all sent home for the night. During that time they look to be counting these ballots from the containers for a few hours until the others return. It is estimated they can do 3000+ an hour.

I think it's important to bear in mind that we have no idea what this video shows. Sure, people are speculating that it is something nefarious, but we don't know that to be true. We see something that has not been explained. One theorized explanation is that fake ballots are being counted when the prying eyes of poll monitors are not there. But nothing confirms that theory. That's why, if it is what Gulliani claims, it should be submitted to a court. There, you would have an adversarial process, where the other side can submit evidence and tell their side of the story. Then, an impartial judge can decide what is what.

Seems the Governor is looking to do a recount based on signatures now...

I haven't seen anything to suggest that Kemp is considering this. Not necessarily doubting you, but I just haven't come across this. Any links?

a reply to: johnnylaw16

You

think it's important to bear in mind that we have no idea what this video shows.

Then what does the video show concerning the going’s on at a vote counting center, and how does it show vote counting procedures as outlined by law was followed?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: johnnylaw16

You

think it's important to bear in mind that we have no idea what this video shows.

Then what does the video show concerning the going’s on at a vote counting center, and how does it show vote counting procedures as outlined by law was followed?

What part of 'we don't know' don't you understand?

Until those who might know are questioned all we have is speculation that something is going on that we don't understand.

The logical place for this questioning, at this point, would be in a court room in front of a judge. So why hasn't the Kraken used it?

originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: johnnylaw16

You

think it's important to bear in mind that we have no idea what this video shows.

Then what does the video show concerning the going’s on at a vote counting center, and how does it show vote counting procedures as outlined by law was followed?

What part of 'we don't know' don't you understand?

Until those who might know are questioned all we have is speculation that something is going on that we don't understand.

The logical place for this questioning, at this point, would be in a court room in front of a judge. So why hasn't the Kraken used it?

But we do know the law and the law for handling of votes. And how that dictates specific procedures. How does the video support that votes were handled in good faith, credible, and with every effort to comply with vote handling procedures and law?

originally posted by: neutronflux
How does the video support that votes were handled in good faith, credible, and with every effort to comply with vote handling procedures and law?

Likewise how does the video support that votes were being MISHANDLED?

You don't know WHAT is being handled. It could be todays lunch orders, or used tally sheets, or envelopes, or darn near anything.

Until someone who know what is supposed to be happening there can explain it, we just don't know.

a reply to: rnaa

Likewise how does the video support that votes were being MISHANDLED?

Any departure from procedure or law is mishandling.

Does the video show vote center actives being conducted with no observers/oversight?

You don't know WHAT is being handled. I

The vote center is made to count/process votes. What else would the vote center be conducting other than official business / activities that should be under observation independent of persons conducting the official business of the counting center.

So. Back to:

But we do know the law and the law for handling of votes. And how that dictates specific procedures. How does the video support that votes were handled in good faith, credible, and with every effort to comply with vote handling procedures and law?

originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: neutronflux
How does the video support that votes were handled in good faith, credible, and with every effort to comply with vote handling procedures and law?

Likewise how does the video support that votes were being MISHANDLED?

You don't know WHAT is being handled. It could be todays lunch orders, or used tally sheets, or envelopes, or darn near anything.

Until someone who know what is supposed to be happening there can explain it, we just don't know.

We should KNOW exactly what is being handled though... that is the point. Fair and transparent eh? So the fact that that box COULD be fake votes and WE DON'T KNOW means the election was not fair and transparent.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: rnaa

Likewise how does the video support that votes were being MISHANDLED?

Any departure from procedure or law is mishandling.

Does the video show vote center actives being conducted with no observers/oversight?

You don't know WHAT is being handled. I

The vote center is made to count/process votes. What else would the vote center be conducting other than official business / activities that should be under observation independent of persons conducting the official business of the counting center.

So. Back to:

But we do know the law and the law for handling of votes. And how that dictates specific procedures. How does the video support that votes were handled in good faith, credible, and with every effort to comply with vote handling procedures and law?

Please point to a provision in the law that this video proves was violated. You will not be able to. This video, on its own is proof of nothing. This video, on its own, is not even admissible evidence in a court. What you would need is a witness to authenticate the video and explain its relevancy. You need someone that has some first hand knowledge of the video to come forward and explain what it shows. You could be correct, but you don't know that you are correct and neither does anyone else, except the persons with specific knowledge of the events depicted in the video.

This is why we have a legal system. People's baseless claims and interpretations of things are meaningless. If this video is what Gulliani claims, he can submit it to a court, allow the evidence to withstand legally scrutiny, and have the other side offer their own explanation of events. From there, a judge can decide whether the evidence is reliable and admissible.

This is not a hard concept to grasp. I am not saying that you automatically wrong. I too do not have first hand knowledge of the contents of the video. But you are choosing to believe others that do not know what the video shows without questioning whether there may be another explanation. That is silly and ignorant.

originally posted by: Xabi87

originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: neutronflux
How does the video support that votes were handled in good faith, credible, and with every effort to comply with vote handling procedures and law?

Likewise how does the video support that votes were being MISHANDLED?

You don't know WHAT is being handled. It could be todays lunch orders, or used tally sheets, or envelopes, or darn near anything.

Until someone who know what is supposed to be happening there can explain it, we just don't know.

We should KNOW exactly what is being handled though... that is the point. Fair and transparent eh? So the fact that that box COULD be fake votes and WE DON'T KNOW means the election was not fair and transparent.

Yeah, that is not how the law works. Imagine this hypothetical--a box is pulled out from under a table. It could be ballots, but it could be the man's lunch. The video is to blurry to tell. In reality, it was the man's lunch, but again, to a neutral observer watching a video of the events, it is not clear whether it is the man's lunch or ballots, the video is just to pixelated. Nothing about this hypothetical evidences a lack of fairness or transparency. Not knowing something is not evidence that the thing was done improperly or unfairly. It is a ridiculous notion to state otherwise, and luckily, it is not how our legal system operates.

originally posted by: Doctor Smith
a reply to: johnnylaw16


Tons of evidence. What are you talking about?

Is this a joke. Funny if it is.

Otherwise, I do pity anyone that is gullible enough to put any stock in Rudy's traveling carnival shows of dribble.

If Rudy's evidence were valid, he would put it before a court. It's a simple theory, provable through deductive reasoning and logic. It is the thesis of this thread presented in the OP. No one has come forward with any reason to question the validity of this point.

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

I mean, I have no reason to believe that Trump cheated or attempted to (except to the extent that his requests to legislatures to overrule the election results could be considered cheating!)

Would you litigate Trump's complaining in court as a form of cheating...lol

a reply to: johnnylaw16

You

Please point to a provision in the law that this video proves was violated.

The questions to you then..

Does the video show vote center actives being conducted with no observers/oversight?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: johnnylaw16

You

Please point to a provision in the law that this video proves was violated.

The questions to you then..

Does the video show vote center actives being conducted with no observers/oversight?

I don't know. I wasn't there and neither were you. That's the point. It, by itself and without context though, is evidence of nothing. It is literally meaningless and that is what any judge would say too. You need to authenticate evidence like this and show that it is what you are claiming it is. No one have done that with this video.

But here's an explanation with someone that has some real information (credit to Gryphon, whom I believe was the one to first post this): www.11alive.com...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

I mean, I have no reason to believe that Trump cheated or attempted to (except to the extent that his requests to legislatures to overrule the election results could be considered cheating!)

Would you litigate Trump's complaining in court as a form of cheating...lol

If he actually convinced some state legislature to take action on the basis of Gulliani's inane theories, you bet I would and so would others. If some legislature actually attempted to throw out election results based on Gulliani's unverified dribble, you can bet that there would litigation instantly and a likely undoing of any such acts.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: johnnylaw16

You

Please point to a provision in the law that this video proves was violated.

The questions to you then..

Does the video show vote center actives being conducted with no observers/oversight?

Irrelevant...

Section § 21-2-408 of the Code Of Georgia, which addresses poll watchers, explains that political bodies and parties are "entitled" to have official poll watchers. The secretary of state's chief counsel told Lead Stories it was not a requirement that observers be present for counting to continue -- only that it is their right to be there is they choose.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: johnnylaw16

You

Please point to a provision in the law that this video proves was violated.

The questions to you then..

Does the video show vote center actives being conducted with no observers/oversight?

Irrelevant...

Section § 21-2-408 of the Code Of Georgia, which addresses poll watchers, explains that political bodies and parties are "entitled" to have official poll watchers. The secretary of state's chief counsel told Lead Stories it was not a requirement that observers be present for counting to continue -- only that it is their right to be there is they choose.

Also true!