Absolute Proof the Earth is Round NOT Flat!

a reply to: turbonium1

Which part of the physics of flight, or any part of a plane's structure (especially those really funky bits on the wing and tail that allow it to change altitude), make it impossible to adjust for a curve?

Specifically.

Name one.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
The movement you see in the videos of the planets that have been posted are entirely a product of those atmospheric conditions.

Prove me wrong.

You're the one claiming it's "a product of those atmospheric conditions", not me.

You're also the one who has no proof for your claim, not mine to prove wrong because, if you don't realize it yet, you have never proven your original claim, in any way.

You obviously have no other possible way to excuse what is seen, with each and every star, and so-called 'planet'. They are very, very unique, in many ways. They move in different ways, they look different, they have different shapes, different patterns of motion, and different colors.

This surely proves that it is these objects, themselves, which all move differently, look different, have different colors and patterns of motion.

An atmospheric effect? You have to prove there are thousands and thousands of different atmospheric effects, while each and every object has those specific effects, as well! The amazing atmosphere which creates different effects for each object, this is what you are really claiming here. Nobody claims this except you. Nobody else would want to make such a ridiculous claim, it seems.

This claim of magical, endless effects created by the atmosphere, which only blurs and obscures any objects, is not your magical effects machine, except in your wildest dreams, maybe.


Anyone knows the atmosphere cannot create such effects. NOTHING can create such endless, unique, amazing effects on real objects, in fact. Even the pack of professional liars don't go that far, so what does that tell you about your claim? Think about it.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

Which part of the physics of flight, or any part of a plane's structure (especially those really funky bits on the wing and tail that allow it to change altitude), make it impossible to adjust for a curve?

Specifically.

Name one.

I said they DON'T adjust for 'curvature'. Whether or not they could adjust for it, is another matter, although most likely, they could adjust for 'curvature'....if it actually existed.

a reply to: turbonium1

You

I didn't miss the point. You asked me what instrument is responsible for level flight, and I showed you that instrument is the VSI.

Man. Your a sad individual.

For the thousandth time..
The VSI indicator is used to show if the plane is deviating from a set altitude by showing it is deviating from a reference pressure. If the jet is flying to the pressure that corresponds to 30,000 feet above sea level, then the VSI is going to indicate any deviation from that reference pressure. The level flight is in the context of maintaining an altitude. The VSI does not indicate the actual pitch of the plane.

It doesn’t mater. The pressure corrected for temperature is going to be the same anywhere over the world at 30,000 feet above sea level in the atmosphere. That pressure doesn’t care if there is a valley below sea level, or flying over a mountain range.

The plane is flying to a set pressure that corresponds to 30,000 feet above sea level. Why would the jet not fly at 30,000 feet. If the jet maintains altitude of 30,000 feet, why would the VSI show anything? The VSI does not change relative to the shape of the earth. The VSI changes when the instrument moves from a reference pressure. The VSI has no means to measure the shape of the earth. The VSI does not indicate the actual relative parallelness of the plane to the earth’s surface. If the flight controls are not set for the flight surfaces and power settings to deviate from 30,000 feet above sea level, why would the plane change altitude? Regardless of the terrain.

a reply to: turbonium1

Anything to change the subject from comets that destroys the flat earth fantasy, huh.....

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

Which part of the physics of flight, or any part of a plane's structure (especially those really funky bits on the wing and tail that allow it to change altitude), make it impossible to adjust for a curve?

Specifically.

Name one.

I said they DON'T adjust for 'curvature'. Whether or not they could adjust for it, is another matter, although most likely, they could adjust for 'curvature'....if it actually existed.

How would you adjust fo “8 inches” of curvature flying over a mountain range that gains 500’ feet in elevation every mile? Or flying over a valley that drops every 100 feet each mile?

You don’t. You fly the plane to a corresponding pressure for your safe and desired altitude above seal level that has nothing to do with how flat or curved the earth is.

As I said before, if 'curvature' DID exist, it would be an entire subject in itself, to learn about, to study, to account for in flights, all the time. To know how airplane speed must be adjusted to the standard rate of 'curvature', and so on.

It's ridiculous to claim that 'curvature' is something pilots 'adjust for', during flights. It's not 'adjusted for', in any way. They simply believe 'curvature' exists, so it must be 'adjusted for', during flights. Despite the fact that nobody ever DOES 'adjust for it', somehow, they must 'adjust for it'. Since we have no problem with flying over 'curvature', it must be 'adjusted for'!

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

Which part of the physics of flight, or any part of a plane's structure (especially those really funky bits on the wing and tail that allow it to change altitude), make it impossible to adjust for a curve?

Specifically.

Name one.

I said they DON'T adjust for 'curvature'. Whether or not they could adjust for it, is another matter, although most likely, they could adjust for 'curvature'....if it actually existed.

How would you adjust fo “8 inches” of curvature flying over a mountain range that gains 500’ feet in elevation every mile? Or flying over a valley that drops every 100 feet each mile?

You don’t. You fly the plane to a corresponding pressure for your safe and desired altitude above seal level that has nothing to do with how flat or curved the earth is.

It's not adjusted for surface features like mountains or valleys, during flights, nor would they want or need to. That's not what I'm talking about here.

I'm talking about how the Earth's surface has a base point, which is sea level, as 0 feet altitude. That's where everything starts from. Altitude is the height you are above sea level, not a mountain range or valley. Mountains are not at sea level, and they are obviously NOT used as our base point. Sea level is our base point for the Earth, that's it.

If 'curvature' existed, there would be no sea level, because nothing would be level at all, on a curved Earth, and if anything WAS level, on a curved Earth, it would be the same as if we used a curved field as our base point for the entire flat Earth, It wouldn't work, nor make any sense.

What I'm saying is that a curved Earth would have a curved base point, and flights would use it as a base point. We would never use a 'level' as our base point, since it would NOT be a level surface at all! Do you get it?


We have a level base point, because we live on a flat, level surface, It has nothing to do with any features of the flat surface. Why do you think we use sea level for base altitude, in flights over Earth? Not because it's a curved surface, it's because it's a flat, LEVEL surface. That's why we use level as our base point. Makes sense, no?

a reply to: turbonium1

You

It's ridiculous to claim that 'curvature' is something pilots 'adjust for',

Quote who here is making that claim.

The vertical speed indicator does not change while a plane is maintaining its altitude ar 30,000 feet above seal level for example as it flys over mountains or valleys. Why would it change for the curvature of the earth.

The earth is spherical. And on the sphere, the atmospheric pressure is the same everywhere corrected for temperature at 30,000 feet above see level around the globe.

A plane’s instruments work off pressure. Altitude and the vertical speed indicator does not measuring the actual distance to the surface of the earth. If plane is staying at the pressure band for 30,000 feet above sea level by not changing is flight controls and power settings, why would the plane need to adjust for the curvature of the earth. When in reality the plane is flying to maintain altitude as indicated by set pressure. And the only way for the vertical speed indicator to indicate vertical speed would be for the plane to deviate from the pressure band associated with 30,000 feet above sea level in this example.

a reply to: turbonium1

You

If 'curvature' existed, there would be no sea level, because nothing would be level at all, on a curved Earth,

Again. Pressure at 30,000 feet above sea level does not care If the earth is level. The earth does not have to be level for a column of air to existing above it. The pressure/weight of the air column at 30,000 feet has nothing to do with the earth being level. The air pressure at 30,000 is due to air density as in how many gas molecules per volume and how much energy those gas molecules have based on temperature.

If there is no gravity. Why does the earth’s atmosphere get less dense as one travels up? And exert less pressure. In the flat earth mode delusion, atmosphere pressure at sea level should be the same at 30,000 feet.

originally posted by: neutronflux
The vertical speed indicator does not change while a plane is maintaining its altitude ar 30,000 feet above seal level for example as it flys over mountains or valleys. Why would it change for the curvature of the earth.

Of course the VSI doesn't change when flying over mountains, or valleys, or ANY surface below, flat OR curved, or whatever. The VSI - as I've told you many times - does NOT measure, does NOT use, in any way, the surface below. It measures within air, uses air, and static pressure, within flight, to measure level, ascent, and descent. That's it.

Only when a plane descends or ascends from a level flight, at an altitude of 30,000 feet above sea level, would the VSI change its reading on level flight, 0 fpm.

If the Earth was curved, a level flight, at 30,000 feet altitude, staying there for 6-7 hours, would be over 1400 feet HIGHER than 30,000 feet above the Earth, assuming it began at sea level. Obviously, that is not the case, because the Earth's surface is flat, not curved. But if it WAS curved, this is exactly what would happen. Since they NEVER account for 'curvature', which would be, for many flights, over 1600 FEET of 'curvature', it is absolute proof that the Earth's surface IS flat.

originally posted by: neutronflux
The earth is spherical. And on the sphere, the atmospheric pressure is the same everywhere corrected for temperature at 30,000 feet above see level around the globe.

No, the Earth is not spherical. Atmospheric pressure does not curve, air does not curve, it flows level, that is why we always measure for LEVEL flights, with the VSI, because AIR flows level above the flat Earth.

Let's say that air/atmospheric pressure DID flow in curves, which somehow perfectly match with your 'curvature' -

Why would we use 'sea LEVEL' to indicate 0 feet altitude? They would have to indicate '0 feet altitude, per 0.5 mile', or 'per 0.1 mile', which STILL wouldn't be true level, because, it CANNOT ever be true level, on a curved surface.

However, the VSI will read 0 fpm, as level flight. When a plane physically descends or ascends in flight, the VSI measures air flow during a flight, using static pressure as it's base, for level flight, When a plane descends, or ascends, the air flow changes around the plane, which creates a pressure differential, and indicates ascent, or descent, in fpm.

The VSI does not indicate altitude. The VSI indicates whether the plane is in an ascent, or a descent, or level flight. That's why a flight begins at sea level, as 0 feet altitude. It may takeoff at 600, or 2500 feet altitude, which will always be based on sea level, as 0 feet altitude.

The planes are on level surfaces, before takeoff, and the VSI must be set to 0 fpm. When the plane takes off, the VSI measures the ascent, in fpm, throughout the ascent.

What about the altimeter? It ALSO must be set to correct altitude, and air pressure, on the surface. When a plane takes off, the VSI measures the ascent in fpm. The altimeter 'knows' what the air pressure is for specific altitudes before the actual flight, for the specific region, and confirms the air pressure during flight. Air pressure is NOT the same everywhere on Earth, so THAT is adjusted for during flights, when the pressure changes, and must be set to regional readings, at their current altitude.

The VSI does not need to be re-set during flights, because it doesn't measure altitude, as I mentioned.

When the altitude is reset to current regional air pressure readings, along a flight, IT DOES NOT CHANGE ALTITUDE. It simply inputs another, current 'pressure chart', for a region, which will - hopefully - confirm it already IS reading the same altitude in the plane, or close to it.

Planes fly level, the altitude stays the same. Air pressure will be adjusted for, which helps to confirm if their altitude is correct, to the region, and continues flying level, at the same altitude.

When will you understand this proves planes fly level, over the flat surface of Earth? If you cannot accept what our own INSTRUMENTS measure, along a flight, as accurate readings, then you will obviously stay in denial, and defend your 'religion', and 'gods', who claim Earth is a massive ball, flying randomly through 'space'.


Tell me, specifically, what indicates within a plane, that it is flying over a ball, a curved surface?

NOTHING indicates it...correct?


Planes fly and land on your ball Earth, it's not important to know how it's done, right?

I've shown you that it is NOT done, ever, but you refuse to accept it.... for some strange reason.

originally posted by: neutronflux
If there is no gravity. Why does the earth’s atmosphere get less dense as one travels up? And exert less pressure. In the flat earth mode delusion, atmosphere pressure at sea level should be the same at 30,000 feet.

No, it does NOT have to be the same air pressure everywhere, nor the same pressure within oceans, either, on our flat Earth, and it is NOT the same.

You seriously believe 'gravity' pulls down air molecules closer to Earth, and makes air denser at lower altitudes? Why wouldn't you? 'Gravity' is your magical 'super-force', which solves all the flaws in your argument, because 'gravity' cannot be proven to exist, in the first place, so it can do ANYTHING you want it to, while you somehow believe that you never have to PROVE ALL OF THAT CRAP!

God created the Earth, and created all life to LIVE on Earth. Where do you think God would create the perfect level of air REQUIRED for life to exist on the surface of Earth? On the surface, right? Now you know why air is perfect for life on the surface, but not above the surface. We were meant to live on the surface of Earth, not above it. No life form lives within air their entire life. Birds and insects require less air than ground-based life forms, and that's why they can fly above Earth, without a problem, like they do while on the ground.. But, they can never fly above the surface, their entire lives, and still exist, and breed. But they cannot fly for their entire lives, No life form can.

While I cannot, myself, prove that God created all of this, I know that there is proof of it, all around us. Just one rocket hitting the firmament would prove it, Of course, that is why they will NEVER fly a rocket into the firmament, because they are absolute liars, who deceive everyone, about Earth being a ball, flying through 'space'. If we saw a rocket crash into the firmament with our own eyes, that would crush their whole fairy tale at once, They know most people will not try to use their own intelligence, and reasoning, to see that they are full of BS. Because most people don't even CARE about it. They are fine with WHATEVER they claim is true! The problem with that is, all of their lies are building up, and at this point, they are claiming Earth is in peril, from 'comets', or 'asteroids', which may crash into Earth, and destroy all life!

If you believe all their other BS, you must believe this, as well. This creates fear, and uncertainty, in people. It is a false fear, like a child fears monsters under his bed, To the child, nothing you say will make him believe there are no monsters under his bed. Until the child uses his intelligence, and reason, to see there are no monsters to fear anymore.

Fear creates control of those people, by the ones who made it all up, in the first place. Someday, aliens will be used for creating MUCH more fear, and panic, within all the believers.

a reply to: turbonium1

All you're proving here is that, contrary to all the evidence from your usual behaviour, you are actually capable of doing a proper google search and read webpages. You should really indicate the source you're heavily paraphrasing though.

Now, which part of all of that:

a) proves the Earth is flat
b) Planes are incapable of adjusting for a curve?

because neither of them actually do.

Why is the air denser at lower altitudes? Seeing as the air follows the ground, which is curved, then the pressure change will also follow that curve. It's really not difficult to understand.

The distance to the ground below any single point if you are flying at a constant altitude is always going to be the same regardless of whether it's a flat or curved surface. Again, not difficult to understand.

Your word salad is moot. It proves precisely nothing.

How's your telescope purchase coming along?

a reply to: turbonium1

They will never fly a rocket into a firmament because there isn't one.

a reply to: turbonium1

Also, you need to google 'radio altimeter' next time. Your average passenger jet doesn't use a pressure barometer.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

All you're proving here is that, contrary to all the evidence from your usual behaviour, you are actually capable of doing a proper google search and read webpages. You should really indicate the source you're heavily paraphrasing though.

Now, which part of all of that:

a) proves the Earth is flat
b) Planes are incapable of adjusting for a curve?

because neither of them actually do.

Here - again - is how it proves the Earth is flat -

Planes are set to sea level, 0 feet altitude. They ascend, which is measured by the VSI, and the altitude is measured by the altimeter, confirming it is at, say, 30,000 feet. At that point, the plane again flies level, for most of the flight, say, 6 hours in all. The plane is ALWAYS flying level, ALWAYS at the same altitude, and lands, at 0 feel altitude, once again.

I'd like to know how this does not possibly prove the Earth is flat, because it certainly DOES prove it.

I'd also like to know why you'd believe this claims Earth is a ball, because that would be hilarious.


Your other question has been answered already. I told you planes COULD, most likely, adjust for ;curvature;, if it existed. The point is that we DO NOT adjust for 'curvature', nor would we, since it does NOT exist in the first place.


Planes don't magically fly over a ball, without any idea how it's done. We must be measuring for level flight.... for absolutely NO reason, then!

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
a reply to: turbonium1

All you're proving here is that, contrary to all the evidence from your usual behaviour, you are actually capable of doing a proper google search and read webpages. You should really indicate the source you're heavily paraphrasing though.

Now, which part of all of that:

a) proves the Earth is flat
b) Planes are incapable of adjusting for a curve?

because neither of them actually do.

Here - again - is how it proves the Earth is flat -

Planes are set to sea level, 0 feet altitude. They ascend, which is measured by the VSI, and the altitude is measured by the altimeter, confirming it is at, say, 30,000 feet. At that point, the plane again flies level, for most of the flight, say, 6 hours in all. The plane is ALWAYS flying level, ALWAYS at the same altitude, and lands, at 0 feel altitude, once again.

Plane measures distance to ground, gets value.
Plane moves along a bit.
Plane measures distance to ground, gets value.

If the plane is following a path parallel to the surface above which it is flying the altitude value will always e the same, regardless of it is a curved or flat surface. This is not difficult to understand.

I'd like to know how this does not possibly prove the Earth is flat, because it certainly DOES prove it.

Weird, because this has been explained to you a million times.

I'd also like to know why you'd believe this claims Earth is a ball, because that would be hilarious.

Where did anyone say it did? There are far less complex proofs derived long before flight was achieved.

Your other question has been answered already. I told you planes COULD, most likely, adjust for ;curvature;, if it existed. The point is that we DO NOT adjust for 'curvature', nor would we, since it does NOT exist in the first place.

You do, of course, have proof that they do not? Why would they need to?

Planes don't magically fly over a ball, without any idea how it's done. We must be measuring for level flight.... for absolutely NO reason, then!

It's not magic. It's physics.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
The distance to the ground below any single point if you are flying at a constant altitude is always going to be the same regardless of whether it's a flat or curved surface. Again, not difficult to understand.

Then why don't you understand it?

I don't see you say anything about FLYING LEVEL here, why is that?

Because you should. Planes don't just fly at a constant altitude, they also fly LEVEL at the same time. THAT is why it would NOT be the same flying over a flat or a curved surface. Flying level over a flat surface will have correct altitude throughout the flight. Flying level over a CURVED surface will NOT have correct altitude, it will be off by hundreds or thousands of feet.

Draw a straight line above a curved line - that should make it easy for you to understand.

a reply to: turbonium1

Flying level is a consistent altitude... thats all it means dude

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
You do, of course, have proof that they do not?

Proving a negative, you mean? No, it's the other way around.

You claim they DO adjust for 'curvature', so if that is true, YOU must prove it.

If they do, it would be described in documents, it would be explained in articles, it would be TAUGHT in flight schools, and EVERY pilot would know about it, and we would know HOW they would adjust for it...

And therefore, if you're right, it should be easy to find documents, articles, etc. which explain this adjustment for 'curvature', which they certainly all do, right?

Good luck with that...