The mask narrative breaks down due to TDS

a reply to: TheRedneck

I have been going on about masks in general. Others keep going on about N95 as though that is where mask use starts and stops. And no my mask specs are 100% correct.

Go check for yourself with the manufacturer. I read all their R&D reports regularly to see if there are new innovations coming down the line.Remember, not a hobby for me.

I did not say I was a Medical Examiner. And besides that is a U.S. term.

I have done every single facet of my industry over the decades and your shallow understanding of my industry is obvious. Again trying to be an expert when what you know could fit on the back of a postage stamp.

And my experiences in wearing masks comes from a risk assessment point of view in more scenarios than you could imagine. Including in the military and in disaster zones. And yes I have had to train up civilians to be as safe as they could be, given the circumstances.

And unlike you, who seems to be stuck looking at a very limited source. My knowledge comes from research done GLOBALLY over decades and decades of clinical and field work, and in uncontrolled environments.

It is not my fault YOU just got interested in this subject this year. And have zero experience to draw on. I mean literally everything you say reeks of some amateur trying to sound smart.

And you also do not seem to understand how the academic community works as well. With a lot of the studies you read are ego driven by geeks who want to prove their theories in highly controlled environments. Many trying to prove if an N95 is actually 95% effective. Or if it can be taken to 96% .

It literally has nothing to do with the world we live in, or the global pandemic we are fighting.

No-one who actually knows about this subject ever asks the question " Should we wear a mask " They ask about the situation it is intended to be used. And the risk assessment starts from there.

You literally do not even know what to ask, that is how far behind being an expert you are. Epic fail. Lets just hope no-one follows any advice you ever give.



a reply to: TheRedneck

a reply to: thedeadtruth

The 85% lie. Yes it is a lie. Many of the places I have had reports on have no masks at all for distribution. Let alone 85% of the population. So I have no idea what you are on about.

So you say the CDC is lying...

The study never claimed that 85% of the population wore masks. It claimed that 85% of patients in the study claimed to wear masks. So your assumption makes you a liar... one that hasn't even read the study apparently.

But you said it was from the CDC. So assuming it was from somewhere in the U.S. ?

Yes! You figured out the US Center for Disease Control (aka the CDC) is located in Atlanta, Georgia! Congratulations!

For your next feat of greatness, perhaps you'll inform everyone that face masks go on the face?

Even though we are all clearly discussing a GLOBAL PANDEMIC.I am pretty sure I made that point very clear. Right?

Wrong.

Too bad, too. You were on a roll.

We are discussing masks in general based on a CDC report. As you so deftly discerned above, the CDC is in the USA. Ergo, we are discussing primarily face masks in the USA for purposes of the CDC study.

As to your anecdotal "evidence," allow me to correct my earlier error. This was intended for you:

originally posted by: TheRedneck

In short, that means I now doubt your claim of being a medical professional. Perhaps you are, but you have failed to show any compelling indication of such and indeed, have shown compelling contra-indication of your claim. One should understand that given the very nature of the Internet, claims as to personal occupation are always subject to question and moreso when unprofessional opinions and behavior are observed. You have been caught several times in the last few pages with significant errors in both knowledge and logic, and now you present a paper on effectiveness of government programs as a paper on effectiveness of the science supporting the programs.

If you wish to wear a face mask, by all means do so. But I will repeat my position: according to my own observations and data from various sources, face mask wearing in public has not been proven to me to be effective. I also see potential health issues for the general public based on the present mandates, and have directly experienced health issues from wearing face masks in my own personal situation. Therefore, while I in no way condemn you for wearing a face mask in public, I choose not to do so and condemn strongly anyone, including you, who wishes to enforce poorly-considered mandates for the public under force of law.

TheRedneck

a reply to: thedeadtruth

(a) Yes. Been doing "real world" body recovery for 40 years. As in outside in many out of control, non-sterile scenarios.

Thank you for the clarification.

(b) No we do not refrigerate the bodies. As C19 loves the cold. I can do the cases at a speed we have no decomposition issues. ( admit tingly not everyone can do this )

Really?

originally posted by: thedeadtruth

We have to pre-order way more stock than usual to deal not just with the numbers , but the amount of chemicals and other products needed to make each case viewable or to keep until this is all over ( we have lots in storage 6 months now ).

So you have bodies 6 months old unrefrigerated. And they haven't started rotting yet.

So you have bodies 6 months old unrefrigerated. But you can keep up with your caseload like no one else.

You, sir, are a liar.

Note: You seem to be commenting on things you have no idea about. Even the basics. Which I predicted if you were a fake expert. But keep digging.

Unlike you, I have never claimed to be an expert on infectious diseases. I go by what limited knowledge I have and use that to consider reports that come out. I also read those reports and at least try to understand what they say.

Unlike you, who has claimed to be an expert and yet could apparently not be bothered to even read the report you called a lie.

Medical science tells us that a virus is a section of RNA surrounded by a type of "shell" that allows it to enter a cell where it takes over the normal metabolic processes and uses them to replicate itself. We know that a virus can only be rendered inert once in the body by antibodies. We know that disease caused by a virus are the result of the body's immunity reacting to the viral invasion.

Common sense tells me that any respiratory virus will cause viral particles to be exhaled. Wearing a mask will obviously contain those viral particles at the facial area. The next inhale will draw more viral particles back into the respiratory tracts than if the mask was not in place, increasing the infection level beyond what it would be had the mask not been in place.

Common sense also tells me that when a mask is removed, it exposes the viral particles still trapped in it, which are concentrated now, to the open air. It seems self-evident that said exposure of the concentration of viral particles will contaminate the air around the mask. Observation shows me that an inordinate number of people remove their masks in the same location when exiting shopping areas. Ergo, the concentration of viral particles in the air in that location would be increased and more easily infect others moving into that area.

Observation also tells me that the entry and exit doors on most shopping areas are next to each other (sometimes one and the same). Therefore, anyone entering the store who moves to the entrance before donning a face mask is breathing in concentrated viral particles. Again, observation shows that this is a large portion of those entering.

That is called "critical thinking." What you are posting is called "hysterical propaganda."

Now, think you can remember the difference?

TheRedneck

a reply to: thedeadtruth

I have been going on about masks in general. Others keep going on about N95 as though that is where mask use starts and stops. And no my mask specs are 100% correct.

I did. Those specs were posted in this thread. The weave is 3 times as large as what you claimed.

TheRedneck

a reply to: thedeadtruth

And you also do not seem to understand how the academic community works as well.

OK, dude, whatever you say.

TheRedneck

OK, just out of curiosity I did a little digging... This graph is from Statistica and shows several countries' response to the question "How often have you worn a face mask outside your home to protect yourself or others from coronavirus (COVID-19)?" as of June 28, 2020. The page is _javascript enabled to show the actual percentages, but that doesn't translate well to screenshots... so I'll post the stats below.

The new cases and deaths are all obtained from Google. I tried to get an actual figure from as near as I could get to the June 28, 2020 date in each screenshot.

The chart:
Purty, ain't it? OK, let's start with Spain. The percentages are:

• Not at all: 1.5%
  
• Rarely: 0.5%
  
• Sometimes: 4.5%
  
• Frequently: 9.4%
  
• Always: 84.1%

Now, here are the new cases and deaths for Spain, in order:

Now Italy. The percentages are:

• Not at all: 2.0%
  
• Rarely: 1.3%
  
• Sometimes: 3.0%
  
• Frequently: 10.7%
  
• Always: 83.1%

As before, the new cases and deaths:

And now, for Finland. The percentages are:

• Not at all: 83.3%
  
• Rarely: 5.0%
  
• Sometimes: 5.5%
  
• Frequently: 4.3%
  
• Always: 1.9%

The new cases and deaths per day:

And finally, Denmark. The percentages are:

• Not at all: 88.1%
  
• Rarely: 3.5%
  
• Sometimes: 4.6%
  
• Frequently: 2.2%
  
• Always: 1.6%

The new cases and deaths per day:

I purposely chose the two countries in Europe which were the best at wearing face masks and the two who were worst using the screenshot (one could scroll farther down, but I think these selections were sufficient). This gave me a wide variation in face mask wearing percentages, and two examples from both ends of the spectrum to ensure against outliers. The results, as one can see from above, do not show any noticeable correlation between countries that wear masks and those who do not, concerning virus cases and deaths from viral infection.

I'd say that's getting pretty close to nailing the coffin lid shut on this mask myth once and for all. If anyone wants to analyze more countries, feel free to do so. Redneck has what redneck needs.

TheRedneck

Dr Vernon Coleman writed 44 reasons about mask .


Dr Vernon Coleman

Conclusion:

Having studied the evidence I believe that mask wearing is likely to do no good but a great deal of harm. The available evidence shows clearly that masks do not work but do have the potential to cause a variety of health problems. Any individual or organisation dismissing the information above as `fake news’ is requested to give their name and address. They will then receive a writ for libel. Please note that I am already in the process of planning two libel actions.

"My mask protects you" implies that masks only work in one direction.

So if you're worried that your own mask doesn't protect you, only me, try wearing it inside out.

(Psst ... you know that "your mask protects me" is made up, not science based, and is meant to get us conditioned to taking a vaccine - "even if you don't care about yourself, the vaccine protects grandma and children and puppies, don't you want that?")

a reply to: TheRedneck

Kudos Redneck and others for responding with more data to the trolls that claim the mask mandate science is settled and yet can’t produce anything in the real world that is more recent than 6 months ago. Y’all have more patience than me, but you are also making this an amazing reference thread for others who really want to do the research.

And y’all have more patience than me. Why is it those who claim they are pro-science are never willing to change their position even when real world (non-lab) science shows otherwise.

If your understanding of science is only in theoretical labs and not tested in true in the real world, it may be factually true but practically false.

It MAY be true that medical grade, properly fitted masks over the face and nose masks, changed every 15-30 minutes could slightly reduce transmission... but, most sheep are NOT:

-wearing medical grade masks
-having their masks fitted
-wearing it over their nose
-refraining from touching their face
-changing masks regularly

Nothing in a lab can test people being people. Real world case infections prove it. Sometimes cases go up after mask mandates are introduced. Sometimes cases go down. Sometimes no changes happen.

Correlation does not imply causation, and there isn’t even correlation here in the first place.

a reply to: TheRedneck

What up bossman!

Getting caught up on some of these excellent threads and your well informed post here caught my eye!

Thank you for sharing your wisdom with the class

Stay Blessed!

-EG

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: TheRedneck

What up bossman!

Getting caught up on some of these excellent threads and your well informed post here caught my eye!

Thank you for sharing your wisdom with the class

Stay Blessed!

-EG

Agreed. My time has not been free recently, but to see someone expound on the OP with great documentation... mind-blowing.

It’s nice to not feel alone.

a reply to: SuperStudChuck

I have missed these forums, been caught up trying to survive all the craziness.

Your OP is excellent my new friend. I look forward to reading many more to come.

I am very grateful for the work you put into this, you articulate yourself very well.

a reply to: SuperStudChuck

Why is it those who claim they are pro-science are never willing to change their position even when real world (non-lab) science shows otherwise.

Because they don't understand science. They don't know how it works, why it works, only that their leaders insist on listening to it. Heck, most don't even know the language... math, the simplest language there is. But they were told from an early age that it was "hard" and believed it. Now, though older, they still believe this mystical magical thing called "science."

There is no magic; this is what I do. I take the ideas from the physicists and biologists and astrologists and climatologists and all the other "gists" out there, analyze their data, and develop ways to use what they found. It's just math and comprehension. I may be retired now, but I still do all this... I just do it on whatever strikes my fancy now (and do it much, much slower, lol).

Science evolves. There is no such thing as "settled" science, only "accepted" science. At one time, science said we would never fly... oops, a couple of brothers in North Carolina proved that one wrong. At one time, during the height of the Bubonic Plague, scientist scoffed at the idea of dirty living conditions being responsible. Oopsy, that foolish Michel de Nostredame (yes, that guy!) said different and started actually keeping people from getting all dead (that's actually what caused him to become famous, before the weird predictions). At one time, science said that Isaac Newton had all the answers. Oops again! Einstein of the wild hairdos showed different. Someday, old Albert's theories will be proven incomplete as well... something I am actually working on.

So it irks me when something I have followed for over 40 years, something I have spent most of those 40 years trying to keep up with, is turned from a search for knowledge to a search for wisdom... that's the realm of religion, not science. They might be able to read the reports, but they can't understand the reports. They have been told all their lives to not question... and that is the opposite of science. That is faith.

Besides, I was bored and couldn't sleep last night. No biggie; took about an hour. Damn insomnia.

It MAY be true that medical grade, properly fitted masks over the face and nose masks, changed every 15-30 minutes could slightly reduce transmission...

I'll go so far as to say that the proper masks, properly fitted, properly worn, and properly disposed of DO likely prevent infection. I would be quite upset if I awoke during an operation and saw my surgeon's shiny toothy smile without anything covering that petri culture accelerator we call a "mouth." Well, plus I would probably be pretty upset at the anesthesiologist as well for letting me wake up while my insides are my outsides, but you get my gist.

Masks are just not designed for constant public use. The more I research, the more I am convinced they are actually becoming a health hazard. Give it a few years and people will start believing that face masks are worse than catching something actually deadly like Ebola... that's usually what happens when the government tries to play scientist: they wind up doing more harm than good, both to the people and to the science. Seen that happen all my life...

TheRedneck

a reply to: elementalgrove

Hey, knowledge is made to be shared. If it isn't shared, it's not really knowledge, is it? It's more like a secret.

Blessings right back atcha.

TheRedneck

In Berlin, the courts have ruled that Covid-19 restrictions are to be scaled back.

justthenews.com...

a reply to: TheRedneck

The problem with that approach is you're comparing different countries with different approaches, all introduced at different times and ignoring all those variables and concluding only one variable is responsible for the result.

It's not a valid method of analysis and has far more likelyhood of giving a false positive, or the false impression of providing an answer, than accurate info. That's why standardisation and measuring variables is used in mathematical analytical frameworks of systems.

For example - different strains of the virus circulated Italy, Spain, UK than Nordic Countries. It'd make little to no sense for someone in Denmark or Finland to regularly/always wear a mask outside as the population density is so much lower than Spain or Italy and it's highly unlikely someone would be in the vicinity. Case loads were far higher in Italy and Spain as cases arrived there months before Nordic countries due to being a major holiday destination.

a reply to: bastion

I'm certainly not claiming an hour of comparing data one night is a scientific study. What I am claiming is that there is no correlation.

As for the countries being different with different cultures and approaches, yes they are, but so are the various states in the USA. Trust you me, as someone who has been to New York numerous times and lived my whole life in Alabama, there is nothing consistent enough between the two that make any sort of apt comparison!

I do, however, believe that if there were any substantial benefit to wearing a mask, there should be some noticeable correlation between mask wearing and not mask wearing. If such a correlation is not to be expected, it simply reinforces the idea that maybe wearing a mask is an exercise in futility, to a greater extent than even I expected!

TheRedneck