Why Historically Known cultures hid information about the Ice Age

a reply to: Harte

Hang on a moment there Harte, no evidence to suggest any of them are real, any of them.

Now as someone with Heart problems I have to say to you watch your blood pressure there old boy don't get in a tizzy, I know you don't agree and don't like them but that does not mean there is no evidence.

Because there is actually ton's of evidence oh nothing that can not be argued by yourself and the sceptics but let's be fair that does not make you, the sceptics or anyone else that does not like them right or them fake.

The evidence mostly comes in the form of documentary evidence and witness accounts, are you saying that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE PEOPLE including god fearing, priests and pastors, prospectors, miners, engineers and even early archaeologists including the Smithsonian before the great cover up (Giants) was a liar, is that what you are saying Harte, are you then Judge, Jury and Executioner, are you the LAW or is it that it threatens the bursary's and careers of many people whom you hold in esteem, objects which if shown to be real which I have no doubt many of them are would upset the foundations of there CHARLAITAIN careers and act's, take away from them those young interns and student's whom many of them cheated on there wives with while promising them good grades etc.

What is wrong with free thought Harte, come on there is a place for established theory but it is not the LAW, it is not set in STONE (unlike many of these Ooparts such as the London Hammer and NO! that one is not a fake and it is not a recent concretion either).

Stop with the nonsense will you, I have seen you give some bloody good arguments in the past and have on occasion climbed down, apologized if I was shown and convinced in myself that I was wrong and you or some other intelligent sceptic argued there point better than I did mine or if I was just blatantly wrong (Remember that reflection that looked like a space station and I Was so engrossed in my own belief I could not even spot the fact the shadows where the wrong way for the direction of the sun proving it was not external but a reflection and internal).

But on this point I am calling Foul, you are wrong to make that assertion.

AND I will make a counter statement that is equally - at least equally and probably far more so - Valid.

Not all of them have been Disproven, many have gone missing because they were inconvenient, misplaces in museum's under suspiciously callous circumstances - if they can keep a leaf safe from a Victorian pressing in a book or an dried out bug in an entomological specimen catalogue then why can they not keep a mysterious artefact that is probably hundreds of time's older safe without bloody losing it (or hiding it).

So you claim NONE have been proven, I argue that there is far more evidence for than against.

The only case against that I know are one's such as the Coso Geode which was shown to be a Champion Spark plug encased in baked on crud from a dried out stream and was probably used in the old nearby mine working's generator before being chucked instead of cleaned when it needed it's contacts polishing by a lazy miner whom most likely just popped in a new one.

There are the whole field of Freak Show and Curiosity's which were quite lucrative in the 1800's and caused great damage to the whole field of research - and were very convenient for those that wanted to brush the whole inconvenient area of evidence under the proverbial mat BUT go back and look at all the reports of Giant's, odd objects and even armour in burial mounds in the US, even mummies in death valley and something resembling a cross between an Egyptian and a Hindu site complete with mummies in the grand canyon in an area that was then declared off limits to the public (even archaeologists) and which has been closed ever since in a section of the Grand Canyon, for that matter what about the Bosnian Pyramid's (not alone in Europe) or other remnants of unknown civilizations in Europe, remember the flood in northern Italy that washed out the side of a hill revealing statues at least as good as the Greek's during there classical period but portraying a woman and other figures in very strange garb that then conveniently went missing after being taken away, what did they tell of pre Roman civilization in Italy.

Then what about the elephant in the room, the huge cyclopean stone foundations such as the Pnyx under part of the Acropolis and other sites all over Europe that very closely match similar sites in south America that like those in South America have definitely been WRONGLY attributed to later cultures whom simply built over the pre-existing remains that were simply too large for them to every have created themselves and made to a far higher degree of quality and using materials and stones of sized we even today would find very difficult to replicate, there are similar sites in Japan used and reused as the foundation of castles that just perhaps the Japanese did not build as well since very little research has actually been done on those sites and Japan is yet another region of the world full of massive stone OOPARTS.

Stop talking to people like they are idiot's, you are not always correct, I respect you and even like you on occasion but at other times' you just get right up my hooter when you come out with crap like that.


I don't mean any offence to you or any other sceptic you are entitled to your opinion but your OPINION is not correct on this.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

About 10,500 bc was a reset. Before that was a different age. Eden / zep tepi call it what you want. When men walked with Gods.

a reply to: purplemer

I call it the last glacial period.

Its end was brought about by a combination of axial and orbital cycles. None of which are influenced by Sirius in any way.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: purplemer

I call it the last glacial period.

Its end was brought about by a combination of axial and orbital cycles. None of which are influenced by Sirius in any way.

Its end was brought about by a combination of axial and orbital cycles

Yes that is one of the opinions held by the scientific community but the truth of the matter is these are thoeries and just about every theory in Science is at some time proven to be wrong.

That aside most old cultures around the world share a common belief that we are living in the 3/4th age of man. Some cultures have elaborate mythology that describe the differences both on a physical and spiritual plane and we travel through these ages.

As a scientist you simply do not have the correct tools to investigate and comment on mythology or any subjective material that falls outside the realms of the objective world.

and yes in my opinion these where infuluence by Sirius. That is why the worlds old temples line up with this star along with many megalithic sites world wide from the UK to Cairo and beyond. That is why it marked the beginning of a year to the Kemetics and the Vedic cultures. (and even our culture.) This is the star the drives the wheel of procession. It is hidden in modern symbolism and masonic belief and is the back bone of nearly every religion.
It is the sun behind the sun. The teachings of the ancient mystery schools and mirrored in modern occultic practises. (masonic / thelemic etc)


and you do not know why...

a reply to: purplemer

That is why the worlds old temples line up with this star along with many megalithic sites world wide from the UK to Cairo and beyond.

It is, after all, the brightest star in the sky.

This is the star the drives the wheel of procession.

No. It is far too distant to have any effect.

It is the sun behind the sun.

If it were behind the Sun we could not see it. It does not lie on the ecliptic so is never behind the Sun.

and you do not know why...

It is the brightest star in the sky.

a reply to: Phage

Its a star to guide you by, , you just change your course, during its rising and setting to sail a steady course. Which might mean at some stage in the past, the angle from your point of embarcation, to your destination, was known to the satrs rising or zenith.Which might mean the course maps were just kept in your head after learning the routes.and angles from various places.Then during daylight you just used the sun as the main navigation star.Navigation was kept to the officer class just in case of mutininy,so you need the navigator for what he knew not what he had.If that makes any sense.

a reply to: anonentity

Due to the tilt of Earth's axis, the rising of stars also suggest the best time to plant crops. The seasons, as it were.

Of no small significance.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

About 10,500 bc was a reset. Before that was a different age. Eden / zep tepi call it what you want. When men walked with Gods.

Define "gods". In most cases a God could be nothing more than a glorified military leader, or even a king, much like how a Lord is a person who controls land.

In Platon's Critias, Atlas is described as a King in charge of multiple kings, a King of Kings if you will. Not of some Titan in a godly manner. So walking with gods doesn't mean a thing without context as to what a god is.

originally posted by: purplemer

That aside most old cultures around the world share a common belief that we are living in the 3/4th age of man. Some cultures have elaborate mythology that describe the differences both on a physical and spiritual plane and we travel through these ages.

Are you aware that Sanskrit is one of the three known root languages that is the base for languages from the ancient Indus Valley to the people of ancient Ireland. Given that all these people have the same root language, it's not hard to believe that at some point in the past they also all shared the same mythic tales.

I mean, the mammoths were gone by this time, so what would replace them as the apex food source? Your model seems highly dependent on them. What’s the point of suppressing something when it’s simply gone anyways?

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

About 10,500 bc was a reset. Before that was a different age. Eden / zep tepi call it what you want. When men walked with Gods.

Yes that is one of the opinions held by the fringe community but the truth of the matter is these are theories and just about every theory in fringe is at some time proven to be wrong.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Not all of them have been Disproven,

Then shows us the ones that aren't then? Limit it to three however we don't want to deal with a Gish Gallop.

a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

This comment is going to be a bit tangential I'm sorry, but I'm surprised the Ice Age isn't, at least as far as I know, referenced at all in what we've excavated so far of Gobekli Tepe. That place is 12,000 years old, right on the cusp of the end of the Ice Age.

It's still being excavated but for something as unbelievably advanced as that, as early as that, a remarkably ancient time, there has to have been some form of writing or a way of planning. I can't imagine the logistics of designing a place like that with no written language. Surely there should be some pictographs or something depicting more than juts animals.

A true anomaly that in my personal opinion is not adequately explained by the current theoretical timeline for the evolution of civilization we've come to know.

The reason may be as simple as, for the people back then, the whole concept of an "Ice Age" was completely beyond their ken. For them, it was just a long period of very cold winters that finally gave way to a more pleasant climate.

originally posted by: Riffrafter
a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

This comment is going to be a bit tangential I'm sorry, but I'm surprised the Ice Age isn't, at least as far as I know, referenced at all in what we've excavated so far of Gobekli Tepe. That place is 12,000 years old, right on the cusp of the end of the Ice Age.

It's still being excavated but for something as unbelievably advanced as that, as early as that, a remarkably ancient time, there has to have been some form of writing or a way of planning. I can't imagine the logistics of designing a place like that with no written language. Surely there should be some pictographs or something depicting more than juts animals.

A true anomaly that in my personal opinion is not adequately explained by the current theoretical timeline for the evolution of civilization we've come to know.

The reason may be as simple as, for the people back then, the whole concept of an "Ice Age" was completely beyond their ken. For them, it was just a long period of very cold winters that finally gave way to a more pleasant climate.

yep

Those folks not near the glaciers would have had no idea that there was an 'ice age' going on.
www2.palomar.edu...

Those in Africa, the Middle East, southern Asia, SA etc wouldn't have noted a thing that to them wasn't 'normal'.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Hang on a moment there Harte, no evidence to suggest any of them are real, any of them.

Now as someone with Heart problems I have to say to you watch your blood pressure there old boy don't get in a tizzy, I know you don't agree and don't like them but that does not mean there is no evidence.

Because there is actually ton's of evidence oh nothing that can not be argued by yourself and the sceptics but let's be fair that does not make you, the sceptics or anyone else that does not like them right or them fake.

The evidence mostly comes in the form of documentary evidence and witness accounts, are you saying that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE PEOPLE including god fearing, priests and pastors, prospectors, miners, engineers and even early archaeologists including the Smithsonian before the great cover up (Giants) was a liar, is that what you are saying Harte, are you then Judge, Jury and Executioner, are you the LAW or is it that it threatens the bursary's and careers of many people whom you hold in esteem, objects which if shown to be real which I have no doubt many of them are would upset the foundations of there CHARLAITAIN careers and act's, take away from them those young interns and student's whom many of them cheated on there wives with while promising them good grades etc.

I note that you fail to present even the anecdotal evidence, even though you claim there is tons of it.

originally posted by: LABTECH767What is wrong with free thought Harte, come on there is a place for established theory but it is not the LAW, it is not set in STONE (unlike many of these Ooparts such as the London Hammer and NO! that one is not a fake and it is not a recent concretion either).

There's nothing wrong with free thought, as long as actual thought is involved.
If the London Hammer (an obvious concretion - very VERY common,) is "real," why does the owner refuse to subject it to any test?

originally posted by: LABTECH767 Stop with the nonsense will you, I have seen you give some bloody good arguments in the past and have on occasion climbed down, apologized if I was shown and convinced in myself that I was wrong and you or some other intelligent sceptic argued there point better than I did mine or if I was just blatantly wrong (Remember that reflection that looked like a space station and I Was so engrossed in my own belief I could not even spot the fact the shadows where the wrong way for the direction of the sun proving it was not external but a reflection and internal).

You are wrong here about these "ooparts" as well.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
Not all of them have been Disproven, many have gone missing because they were inconvenient, misplaces in museum's under suspiciously callous circumstances - if they can keep a leaf safe from a Victorian pressing in a book or an dried out bug in an entomological specimen catalogue then why can they not keep a mysterious artefact that is probably hundreds of time's older safe without bloody losing it (or hiding it).

Sure. The big bad museums are hiding these things from us. Not like it would sell tickets or make anyone's career, huh.

originally posted by: LABTECH767 So you claim NONE have been proven, I argue that there is far more evidence for than against.

Given that there is no evidence FOR their validity, your statement is kind of meaningless.

originally posted by: LABTECH767The only case against that I know are one's such as the Coso Geode which was shown to be a Champion Spark plug encased in baked on crud from a dried out stream and was probably used in the old nearby mine working's generator before being chucked instead of cleaned when it needed it's contacts polishing by a lazy miner whom most likely just popped in a new one.

Another concretion. Like I said - VERY common.

originally posted by: LABTECH767There are the whole field of Freak Show and Curiosity's which were quite lucrative in the 1800's and caused great damage to the whole field of research - and were very convenient for those that wanted to brush the whole inconvenient area of evidence under the proverbial mat BUT go back and look at all the reports of Giant's, odd objects and even armour in burial mounds in the US, even mummies in death valley and something resembling a cross between an Egyptian and a Hindu site complete with mummies in the grand canyon in an area that was then declared off limits to the public (even archaeologists) and which has been closed ever since in a section of the Grand Canyon, for that matter what about the Bosnian Pyramid's (not alone in Europe) or other remnants of unknown civilizations in Europe, remember the flood in northern Italy that washed out the side of a hill revealing statues at least as good as the Greek's during there classical period but portraying a woman and other figures in very strange garb that then conveniently went missing after being taken away, what did they tell of pre Roman civilization in Italy.

Yes, there were a lot of things talked about in the 1800's, in newspapers and magazines. This is the "documentary evidence" you claim.
So now I am free to claim that in 1860, turnips in Nebraska grew so large that one was hollowed out and a military academy was established inside of it.
Page 94

originally posted by: LABTECH767 Then what about the elephant in the room, the huge cyclopean stone foundations such as the Pnyx under part of the Acropolis and other sites all over Europe that very closely match similar sites in south America that like those in South America have definitely been WRONGLY attributed to later cultures whom simply built over the pre-existing remains that were simply too large for them to every have created themselves and made to a far higher degree of quality and using materials and stones of sized we even today would find very difficult to replicate, there are similar sites in Japan used and reused as the foundation of castles that just perhaps the Japanese did not build as well since very little research has actually been done on those sites and Japan is yet another region of the world full of massive stone OOPARTS.

Apparently now all it takes to make a oopart is personal incredulity.
The fact that some people are ignorant means everyone is ignorant?

originally posted by: LABTECH767Stop talking to people like they are idiot's, you are not always correct, I respect you and even like you on occasion but at other times' you just get right up my hooter when you come out with crap like that.

Stop claiming "tons" of evidence when I know damn well none exists. Then you won't have this problem.

You want to pretend that I haven't spent DECADES looking into these things.
Unlike so many others here, including yourself,I don't post on subjects I have no knowledge of.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

So a simply line of text on each of your arguments is all you have to prove your point, prove I and even many Archaeologists such and others are wrong.


People have lost there careers over this, Virginia Steen McIntyre for one, there have been threads on here blackening this lady by people whose view is frankly crap.




And here we go Harte one blood bit oopart, come on explain it away.
sciencevibe.com...

Or these HUGE ooparts.



Come on Harte the time for pushing this under the rug is past, if you can't see that then you are a relic yourself because the cat is well and truly out of the bag.

a reply to: BelowLowAnnouncement

Hence the possible true age of the Sphinx and first true Great Pyramid. Ancient man became obsessed with star constellations for a very simple reason. Trying to regain orientation and balance after the Earth as she has done countless times before and will continue to do so and that's her journey in the Great Natural cycle.


Ancient man encoded his knowledge as best they could in the only thing that truly stands up to time in any form and thats stone.

a reply to: SLAYER69

You're actually the person who sent me down the forgotten history rabbit hole many, many years ago, I never got around to thanking you for that. You sparked an intrigue in me that's still with me to this day.

Thanks.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

So a simply line of text on each of your arguments is all you have to prove your point, prove I and even many Archaeologists such and others are wrong.


People have lost there careers over this, Virginia Steen McIntyre for one, there have been threads on here blackening this lady by people whose view is frankly crap.

Steen-McIntyre wasn't damaged over this. She jumped her boss publishing. Cynthia Irwin-Williams published the same data and results in her paper on the site as the lead Archaeologist. You know, the person that hired a girl (Steen-McIntyre) from the USGS to come down and do the sampling. Note that there were no career repercussions for her, not an eye was batted.
I know you know that I've stated these verifiable facts to you and others here before. Yet this imbroglio still gets characterized as a scientist having their career "ruined" by "exposing the truth."

Harte

originally posted by: LABTECH767
Or these HUGE ooparts.

Come on Harte the time for pushing this under the rug is past, if you can't see that then you are a relic yourself because the cat is well and truly out of the bag.

I don't watch videos posted here as "evidence." Especially when the poster has also posted "The Mysterious Origins of Man."

I will tell you that the underwater city of Dwarka has been known about for centuries. You can see the thing, and people have boats.
The last part of it that sank happened during the Medieval Period. This is based on architectural finds there that match designs from that period in the area. Currently it's thought that there were at least two different episodes of submersion that happened there, IIRC. Maybe it's three. It's a very heavily studied site, it's so easy to get to it. No ooparts there.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Are you sure it can be checked out and proven that Steen McIntyre stole that data, I for one think that is a load of Hooey and yes I was at first taken aback by it but now suspect it is merely a whitewash with people like yourself merely quoting dubious sources to back up your claims of superior intellectual right on the matter which in fact you most certainly do not have.
Here is another site you hate but it is quoting an article from Harpers Magazine in the 1970's from an interview with the lady in Question whose career in the field WAS most certainly damaged, I mean you would not hire her would you, she would probably disagree with you or find something out you did not want the rest of us to know about.
www.s8int.com...

Once again Come off it Harte.