The Most Unsettling UFO Theory?

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: crayzeed
That's what frightens governments as they have totally no control over the situation.

It would really be something if "disclosure" actually turned out to mean something essentially philosophical that would toss a huge number of longstanding myths or philosophies right into the garbage. The truth of existence, and not just fantasies about creatures from other planets visiting Earth in metallic flying saucers or powerful gods controlling people's lives and creating natural disasters to teach us a lesson. "Our limited animal forms allow us to experience and comprehend about .0001 percent of reality. We're surrounded by powerful controlling entities beyond our ability to even define and we're like bugs or shadows to them. No Gods. No afterlife. Just a quick pointless existence and we're out." The truth dumbed down just enough for us to understand that we're completely screwed.

I'd like to see how people would react to something like that.

If that's all governments have -which could very well be the case- then it's understandable that they don't want to disclose anything. Disclosing this would not benefit them in any way and it could cause some unrest.
Saying it's aliens, even if they don't know where they come from or what they want, would actually be much easier to disclose, as little men from space coming in metallic spacecraft is actually something people is mentally equipped to understand and, to some degree or another, accept and cope with it.

If we are truly moving toward a disclosure scenario, it'd be interesting to see.

I thought of this song/poem by Iced Earth. Seems wicked stuff to me.

You know, Valles's "control system" idea always interested me. One reason is that I always wondered why Vallee made such an ambiguous statement: control system.

Actually, Vallee is using an engineering term that has a degree of complexity. Therefore, I wonder why Vallee used this ambiguous terminology knowing it would lead to misunderstanding. He is an engineer exposed to these concepts not the average person.

He goes on to clarify himself in the quote in the OP, saying he's not talking about some sinister physical and mental control by beings from outer space on we earthlings.

When I speak of a control system for planet earth, I do not want my words to be misunderstood: I do not mean that some higher order of beings has locked us inside the constraints of a space-bound jail, closely monitored by psychic entities we might call angels or demons. I do not propose to redefine God. What I do mean is that mythology rules at a level of our social reality over which normal political and intellectual action has no power."

SO WHY USE THIS AMBIGUOUS TERMINOLOGY VALLEE?

It is an engineering concept, and one wonders how Vallee can equate it with the alien phenomena?

Is he just an intellectual flexing his knowledge?

Or furthering some other cause?

Valle's mention of a thermostat means he is referring to a closed control systemand not an open one. circuitglobe.com...

So, what does that mean?

I think he’s saying the alien phenomena we witness is telling us something—it’s some form of feedback. A closed control system gives feedback an open one doesn’t.

Karma maybe?

An open control system lacks feedback. Like a clothes dryer not telling you the clothes aren’t dry.

originally posted by: muzj03
a reply to: charlyv

I meant to comment earlier - Gary Larson is great, the Far Side has always been a favorite of mine.

...have a glance - I couldn't see the one you're referring to, but I distinctly remember seeing it a long time ago.
www.pinterest.nz...

Thanks for trying. Nice collection there!
It has to be in someone's collection and I will keep looking...

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Some Cliff Notes for those in the purple reign...

The X-files episode, Jose Chung’s From Outer Space, is about a “narrative” controlled by the Government. The language, under hypnosis, is very interesting: They are telling me that it is for the good of the country; I don’t lke what they are doing; they are stealing my memories.

So there is the government’s narrative but that gets screwed up when a real alien encounter happens. The MIB (Jesse Ventura and Alex Trebek! Brilliant!) show up to further confuse the narrative. Watch as Trebek anchors the experiencer and say the classic psy op, “you are getting sleepy...” if you follow NLP you would have known the method of hypnotism being deployed (I.e., if you ‘see’ Alex Trebek then the cover narrative has asserted itself and the stolen memories will remain hidden. That is what I mean by narrative but what others would slap with the ‘consciousness’ bumper sticker. It is a narrative because it is spoken; guided hypnosis is crazy cool!)

Narrative also implicates language. (And timing/rhythm oddly enough). Our brains like syncing on certain frequencies. And if you can subtly change which one that is being focused upon you can guide them to your speech pattern: hypnosis.

There is probably some tech that makes it easier than the stage Mesmer getting you to act like a chicken!!

Frequency, language, and consciousness is what I ment. That seems like a more encompassing answer (sorry for assuming the that which is beyond your grasp! My bad! Hope this helps clarify what I was trying to say)

originally posted by: Willtell
You know, Valles's "control system" idea always interested me. One reason is that I always wondered why Vallee made such an ambiguous statement: control system.

...I think he’s saying the alien phenomena we witness is telling us something—it’s some form of feedback. A closed control system gives feedback an open one doesn’t.

In my opinion - and I'm quite open to being wrong, I think you have pretty much summed up what his intent / meaning is - that's pretty much the gist that I got from it, but it's been a while since I read his series of books. I might have to re-read them at some point.

The only thing in your quote I would question - and again, I could be wrong, is the word "alien", as I'm not sure that's accurate. It could be, but generally most people who use that word in the context of UFOs are meaning alien beings of whatever type(s). My gut feeling is it might be something at a deeper / more complex level than that, but i'm speculating based on what I've read and my own thoughts etc.

One thing I've always kind of thought, is UFOs might effectively be some form of "message", basically communicating to us as a species - that there are other realities out there, you can travel to and from parallel universes, physics is far more complex than we realise yet and kind of prodding us along to keep going with our scientific research.

Kind of like an advertisement of what is possible. The next obvious question though, is who or what is doing the advertising.

Discrediting Attempt #2

(The Norway Spiral if it was witnessed, at an earlier date in history, would be likely classified as a comet with a long tail..........or a non-periodic comet, a definition that removes the burden of proof) (With an example today like "Flight 370's Disappearance, we can credit the spread of information to the validity of the account..........that and the large geographic area and witnesses involved..........where 9/11/2001 failed, is not the spread of information, but the limited geographic area, and contested accounts (so there were likely no real planes involved).......(if that is the claim you want to make) (but on point with the theory presented)

Re-Phrased - The Titantic Was Struk Down by an Isolated Field Effect, attributed to Human Consciousness in Part, or a "Neo UFO"

how the phenomenon may in some way be linked to consciousness and human evolution throughout the centuries. It may further be a good explanation for why we perceive UFOs differently in various time periods throughout history - FROM OP

"Neo-UFO ========= Definition"

God created Human Kind as a Complete Set, different people in different places at the same time. Then over time, generational decay, due to the human nature of "suicide pleasure"............it is "dead flesh" those genetic lines specifically, and also many people, that prevent a unified field on earth, that is earth's natural design..............we are the only planet sized body in our solar system without "rings", because pluto had no rings around it, it was declassified, that is one possibility, may not be true.

When God first created the Human Kind as a Initial set, almost immediately the Planet Earth Lost its Unified Field..............then in joshua 12:8, all the "ites" were killed, except the "moabites".............then they fell into sin, and god revealed the language of not only those genetic lines, but, genetic dan, genetic ephraim, a portion of aaron or aaron, cascau, and half manasseh, asi**....................God wrestled with that issue, but God specifically did not perform the work the angels or sons of man in the old testament, did that to further reveal and complete the gospel presented to mankind...............That work specifically mankind must achieve............

Less than 99.9999, percent of them must not live on the planet earth.............or 99.9 percent if we turncoat the figures of revelation, without further reproofs..........right now you have no legal evidence this issue is reproved in any fashion, you must do away with it, that is god's law from the creation of the homosapien.

"Neo - UFO" ............ This Earth has a propensity for a "unified field", that can be expressed as an incomplete band of that, or isolated spectrum, or like a "UFO", this is a "Neo-UFO", man's damnation or dead flesh on earth, breaks that argument away, and then your definition is legal, a ufo becomes like an mirage, a fanciful illustration of something or another according to the perception of the people or person involved, and nothing more.

A "UFO", is a "UFO"............just because humanity is dead in about 40 years with halley's comet, doesn't mean you can re-write the illustration of mercy or man's equal potential god has originally designed as the conclusion of the gospel...............otherwise, as we've said "Neo-UFO" is a perfectly legal definition, as a rebuke. Everything is resolved this year 12/21/2020 with perhaps nothing happening at all.........just to make this clear:::::

49/50 the Value of a Jubilee (50 Generations of Genesis 18)

old testament
5/21/2011 - 50 years from halley's comet (halley's year cycle)
12/21/2012 - 49 years from halley's comet (galactic center)

41/42 the Value of Joseph (41 Generations of Matthew, 42 in Revelation)

new testament

12/8/2019 - (spaceship borisov) 42 Years from halley's comet
12/21/2020 - 41 Years from halley's comet (mabus of nostradamus)

.................
.................

God's Answer to "dead flesh" = "Joseph" (presentation of a unified field to the natural effect of the earth or the genome)

When God gave "Joseph a Genealogy" and also attributed to the revelation (accounted with the tribes, that is very important)

Everything will be resolved soon, with perhaps NOTHING AT ALL, but humanity will still suffer until it passes away.

(in terms of pain the good news is reports of mutations in covid-19, and the lose of smell and taste, the removal of the 5 senses, or at least some, how much value there is to the "blind and dumb" death for humanity, in the new testament, we need to see this done, we need to see this happen soon and for a very long time)

This was meant to be a reply to muzj03:

Your mentioning John Keel and then Palmer reminded me of something I read not too long ago. By the end of the reading, the author surprisingly indicates there is some common ground between John Keel and Richard Shaver. Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out:

shavertron.com...

originally posted by: Key2life
a reply to: jeep3r

Suppose a civilization or group of civilizations were to arise and advance at a pace where they may even overcome physical bodies and become more ethereal in being. Beings whom inherently pass into more etheric dimensions as well, where consciousness take a more pronounced roll and thoughts almost manifest reality in a more subtle way.

That reminds me a lot of Arthur C. Clarke's three laws, especially the third one:

Clarke's Three Laws

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

In other words: we wouldn't be able to explain any extraordinary accomplishments of said beings because, from our vantage point, it would simply seem "impossible" to do whatever they are doing.

a reply to: Aboom

Yes - I'm aware of that, but I have only had a limited look at Shaver's writing.
...another obvious connection is Charles Fort.

I also note another name I'm familiar with coming up in that article you linked to - Immanuel Velikovsky.
After reading that article - I think it's a pretty good high level summary of a few things on this topic - well worth a read, even just as a reminder.

If it interests anyone and you've got 20 mins free, this is a favorite TED talk of mine. I think the relevance of the subject to this thread should be pretty obvious.

pineal gland

Promising researcher Rick Strassman to propose that *** was made by the pineal gland in humans; a speculation that was popularized in the 2010 movie “'___': The Spirit Molecule.” The pineal gland has long been popular.

Pineal Gland *** – What the Science Says - EntheoNation

What is the function of *** in the pineal gland?
Dimethyltryptamine *** One of the functions of the pineal gland is the production of melatonin. The pineal gland and melatonin help regulate sleep-wake cycles (circadian rhythms). The production of melatonin by the pineal gland is stimulated by darkness and inhibited by light. D*T exists in our brains in order to provide consciousness,...

THE ufo's are there to cause Awe & Epiphany moments, to help cause spurts of evolutionary thinking in Humanities Collective Consciousness... to help us Advance as a species---- and is not a cage device used by superior aliens to control humans

wee people and 'greys' are all created in our Pineal Gland via the miracle molecule .....

originally posted by: charlyv
I think that the Quantum Paradox explains what UFO's really are.

It basically states that anything we can think of, we will, at some time in the future, be able to manifest or accomplish what ever that is.

One of those things is time travel. We will solve how to do it. The paradox kicks in because we will visit ourselves like we have throughout history. It follows that UFO's are ourselves in the future visiting us. It makes the most sense to me.

If time travel were possible, it would always be possible.

Time travel is an even sillier theory than organic alien visitation.

a reply to: Ththema


...in saying that though, there's a few intelligent people who would seem to have a different perspective on it.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: muzj03
a reply to: Ththema


...in saying that though, there's a few intelligent people who would seem to have a different perspective on it.

en.wikipedia.org...

Time travel makes zero sense both in quantum terms and in relative terms. There's no two ways about it.

It's an interesting but problematic narrative device, that's all it is.

There are no time machines, there never will be. If there were, we would already have them.

originally posted by: Ththema
There are no time machines, there never will be. If there were, we would already have them.

Well, if we did have them, they would certainly be kept about as secret as possible or they would be useless. As it is, I think that there's a good chance that they do exist, in secret, but whoever is controlling them is making our timeline go all wonky. Not necessarily in a bad way all the time -- we got computers out of it FWIW -- but with events happening that wouldn't have happened if they hadn't interfered.

a reply to: Ththema

I'll stick with the opinions of physicists on this one.
Debating something's potential based on theoretical models is likely to lead to a range of opinions.
I wouldn't say any of them are accurate, but opinions are one thing and dis-proving a hypothesis requires a bit more than just an opinion.

You're clearly in the no camp and I'm sitting on the fence.

Misleading title. I feel like I wasted 12 minutes hoping for something unsettling that I didn’t already know about the subject. Nothing unsettling at all here, carry on.

originally posted by: muzj03
a reply to: Ththema

I'll stick with the opinions of physicists on this one.
Debating something's potential based on theoretical models is likely to lead to a range of opinions.
I wouldn't say any of them are accurate, but opinions are one thing and dis-proving a hypothesis requires a bit more than just an opinion.

You're clearly in the no camp and I'm sitting on the fence.

What physicists are you talking about?

Even the physicist in your link came to the conclusion that time travel creates a paradox.

While theoretically time may slow down and speed up, there is no evidence of anything but the apparition of a quark cutting back in time. Time doesn't exist like that.

Theoretically, if you went back in time, you would forever alter the future timeline. The entire thing. You would never be able to go back to the same future.

Theoretically, it's possible according to relativity to go up in a ship, fly around at xn the speed of light, and come back in the far future, depending on how fast/long you were riding around.

You're still stuck there in the future. You can't make the universe unhappen.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Ththema
There are no time machines, there never will be. If there were, we would already have them.

Well, if we did have them, they would certainly be kept about as secret as possible or they would be useless. As it is, I think that there's a good chance that they do exist, in secret, but whoever is controlling them is making our timeline go all wonky. Not necessarily in a bad way all the time -- we got computers out of it FWIW -- but with events happening that wouldn't have happened if they hadn't interfered.

So, there are time machines, but some invisible entity has controlled all of them at every point in history and into the eternal future.

No one else has ever had them, or will ever have them.

That really makes sense to you? I feel like people are watching too much Netflix these days.

a reply to: Ththema


I suspected you might reply with something like that, based on your original response.
That tells me you don't understand the hypothesis being proposed (there were multiple theories being discussed in that wiki article by the way - not one,which is very high level - I'm not getting into a detailed conversation on it online on this forum - why bother when there are probably only a few people who have an interest in it).

Re-read it, or not. I have zero interest in explaining it.
You have already reached a conclusion.

I particularly like your comment "time doesn't exist like that".
Perhaps broaden your mind and read more on the subject in question - or not.

Don't bother replying - I won't read it