The Most Unsettling UFO Theory?

originally posted by: crayzeed
That's what frightens governments as they have totally no control over the situation.

It would really be something if "disclosure" actually turned out to mean something essentially philosophical that would toss a huge number of longstanding myths or philosophies right into the garbage. The truth of existence, and not just fantasies about creatures from other planets visiting Earth in metallic flying saucers or powerful gods controlling people's lives and creating natural disasters to teach us a lesson. "Our limited animal forms allow us to experience and comprehend about .0001 percent of reality. We're surrounded by powerful controlling entities beyond our ability to even define and we're like bugs or shadows to them. No Gods. No afterlife. Just a quick pointless existence and we're out." The truth dumbed down just enough for us to understand that we're completely screwed.

I'd like to see how people would react to something like that.

Reading Vallee's control system theory, (don't like that name), it sounds like he doesn't believe in UFOs at all. The control system seems like his final conclusion to the phenomenon and it sounds very science teacher skeptical debunking, like sleep paralysis explains alien abductions, case closed.

He speaks on cases that are probably hoaxes as if they're important cases.

It's like Jacques Vallee was assigned all the civilian cases that are just first hand experiences, and he didn't investigate any military or commercial air flight cases that would have multiple witnesses, radar, and electronic malfunction.

His control system theory is from 1975, we have discovered so much more about space since then.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I understand that our social systems, including mythology all the way up to memes, appears to function as a kind of organism with us taking on the equivalent role of blood cells. It defines our reality and in many ways "owns" us, what we think, what we're allowed to do, etc.

That's why as far as alien invasions are concerned, it already happened. Aliens are everywhere, even challenging the old gods for the title of "Creator.". The goal was always preservation of the living concept system.

I think you have nailed it. . .

ps I can't listen to the voice of the narrator on the It's[redacted] video, it sounds like some high school project, and the info they present is nothing new.

We have eye witness reports, paranormal experiences reports, mind reading/control reports, synchronicities, video data, radar data, infra red data and so on.

I still think we do not have a theory that covers all of these things. We only have theories for parts of it.

I used to waver between being a skeptic and the ETH, now I do the same with the IDH.

I love this theory, and I'm curious why some find it unsettling. I find it wondrous and awe-inspiring. I love that overwhelming hair-standing-on-end sensation of thinking about the unfathomable implications if Vallee is right.

I think that the Quantum Paradox explains what UFO's really are.

It basically states that anything we can think of, we will, at some time in the future, be able to manifest or accomplish what ever that is.

One of those things is time travel. We will solve how to do it. The paradox kicks in because we will visit ourselves like we have throughout history. It follows that UFO's are ourselves in the future visiting us. It makes the most sense to me.

a reply to: charlyv

If that's what Vallee's theory is that anything we think of will manifest then where is Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

I think Vallee made his conclusion on UFOs based on random people describing their encounters and no credible witnesses. It's a lot of absolute thinking on his part, he has no scientific evidence for his "control system" theory which is super ambiguous term to describe UFO's.

a reply to: game over man

Not sure if "Collective Evolution" is a controversial site on here (if so, mods are welcome to remove this post), but they did publish an interesting article last week involving some of Vallée's thoughts on cases he examined in the 1990s:

“The CIA Simulated UFO Abductions In Latin America As Psychological Warfare Experiments” – Dr. Jacques Vallée

It's a quite interesting view on the mess we're in today with all the disinfo and vested interests. Seems to be difficult to really get through to the core of the phenomenon... nevertheless, it's clear that most people who had a closer look the many compelling UFO cases that are out there still have the feeling that something "real" is going on here.

I seriously think the governments know they exist but that's it. They don't know who, what or where and that really frightens them and also explains the disclosure angle. They haven't got anything to disclose. I am very much in the camp of another dimension or dimensions in the same space as us, with them having the ability to travel between the dimensions. That's what frightens governments as they have totally no control over the situation.

a reply to: crayzeed

I agree with most of what you say, but I think the governments do know a little about who they are. It's just that they can't do a thing about them and you're right, they are scared.

originally posted by: jeep3r
It's a quite interesting view on the mess we're in today with all the disinfo and vested interests. Seems to be difficult to really get through to the core of the phenomenon... nevertheless, it's clear that most people who had a closer look the many compelling UFO cases that are out there still have the feeling that something "real" is going on here.

You might find William Lyne's "Pentagon Aliens"' of interest - assuming you haven't read it already.
www.amazon.com...

Does it explain UFOs as a whole? - absolutely not, but it definitely contributes relevant information to a side of it that doesn't get discussed much - government level hoaxing and fabrication of events for various purposes.

(discrediting accounts)

These accounts were recorded when religious prosecution was the sports game of the day, none of that information can be viewed at face value, especially, those accounts were only found recorded by one or two people, but many saw it, were silenced. And history was modified.

There are parallels between the information and "100 Hand/Angels...MABUS of Nostradamus"....etc.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_comet

Great Comet of 1680
Great Comet of 1887
Comet Ikeya–Seki – 1965 (Nasa's Tower and Shard of 1967)

Both sets of information are not true and correct..........so there are assumptions made, and information is slammed together.

We can see form the 1960's, how the spread of information was even then at that time too slow to reprove erroneous, and modified, information.

EDIT

Both accounts are probably false, I mean, you have modified from the general public, and a scientific version of that later "accepted". So both values are false and near the truth.

"Nguyen Van Lem 1968" (probably the true value for "Comet Ikeya-Seki and Nasa's Tower and Shard") ...........

a reply to: jeep3r

I love these kinds of the thought provoking topics which upon many conjectures/hypotheses arise. They ask very existential/ontological/metaphysical philosophical questions amongst it's cousins, the physical and psychological aspects.

First of all why is it so hard for us(humanity) to believe that in this unfathomably large and old universe may exist beings that may have arisen eons upon eons ago? Who may have gone far beyond us in technology and understanding that we might sit here within our own little bubble of arrogance/ignorance to think we are alone.
Suppose a civilization or group of civilizations were to arise and advance at a pace where they may even overcome physical bodies and become more ethereal in being. Beings whom inherently pass into more etheric dimensions as well, where consciousness take a more pronounced roll and thoughts almost manifest reality in a more subtle way.

Believe it or not there are cases where that seems to be the jest of reality with some of these so called aliens or inter-dimensional beings. I think Vallee is definitely leaning to such views, even if he might not exactly prescribe to such notions entirely. The scientist in him doesn't wish to accept such a thing might be but it may also be the scientist within him that cannot refute such mounting evidence.

a reply to: muzj03

I find your post very intriguing! What is your own thoughts upon the interdimensional beings.
Have you read the, "hunt for the skinwalker"?

I find it mind-blowing that they are almost observers of us but for what particular reason might they take an interest in us? I speculate they most definitely have something they take or need from us and that's why they prey upon us. As if fear/dissension/chaos becomes nourishment for them.

(minor correction to discredited accounts)


UFO Account 1716 ++++++++++ Solar Cycle of 11 Years ========== Issac Newton Activation 1727 A.D. (as is recorded)
(Rosetta Stone Author?)

UFO Account 1897 +++++++++++ Solar Cycle of 11 Years =========== 1908 Tunguska Explosion Event
(Coral Castle Author)
.............
.............
.............
Norway Spiral 2009 ++++++++++ Solar Cycle of 11 Years =========== 12/21/2020 (Jupiter Conjunction @ Solstice, which did not happen in 2012)
.............
This is more correct. Nguyen Van Lem............these individuals were around the same age, history is heavily modified.

EDIT

Mass UFO Sighting over Washington (D.B.Cooper) +++++++++++ 11 Years ============= JFK Euthanasia (Baba Vanga, recorded as the mysterious women there, abused by her late husband years before the presidency of jfk, maybe same person)

Everything will be resolved 12/21/2020, very soon, perhaps, with nothing at all taking place (god's propensity to react is resolved)

originally posted by: Key2life
a reply to: muzj03

I find your post very intriguing! What is your own thoughts upon the interdimensional beings.
Have you read the, "hunt for the skinwalker"?
I find it mind-blowing that they are almost observers of us but for what particular reason might they take an interest in us? I speculate they most definitely have something they take or need from us and that's why they prey upon us. As if fear/dissension/chaos becomes nourishment for them.

Hmmm, well thanks I guess, but in terms of answering, i'm not quite sure what to say.
Yes - I have read that book and I find that place interesting, if half of what has been talked about is vaguely accurate.
In a nutshell - I think the subject as a whole has many inter-related parts to it. I don't think one specific answer covers all of it.

1) I think there's a very large degree of fakery, hoaxing and disinformation in the subject and that has been created very intentionally to muddy the waters and make it hard for people to understand. I've been looking for a long time - as have a lot of other people - probably you too. UFOs are a subject where the more you learn, the less you seem to really know about it.
2) I think there's a component of technological devices that have been developed over a long period of time that explain away some sightings. there is too much documentation on this aspect for me to brush it off and say there are no UFO sightings that are not caused by actual craft - vehicles. some of those are likely piloted by people. some maybe being controlled by something else. I'm not sure what that something else is - we could be talking about anything from actual physical beings, to an alien form of AI, to beings from other realities (parallel universes, alternate dimensions - however you want to think about it). if that has any validity, then we're dealing with a species that can control energy to a level that we probably can't.
3) some of the information out there - such as some of John Keel and Vallee's work suggest to me that a portion of this subject may relate to some form of super intelligence, that is intentionally interacting with us. the exact nature of that intelligence would be up for debate, but if any of that is true, then it is planned, intentional, works over a very long period of time (relative to human life spans) and clearly has some form of an agenda, but exactly what that is may be hidden from us - on purpose.

lastly I think those 3 points are inter-related and I don't feel I understand anything vaguely relating to root causes or a big picture.

I think reality itself is far more malleable than how things appear and some of our ideas like quantum theory are really just scratching the surface of that concept (I've studied that a lot and a fair bit of physics. if you want to understand the implications of that side of things - in terms of quantum computation - read David Deutsch's "The Fabric of Reality" (www.amazon.com...) = he has been a world leader in the subject for a long time and received the Dirac Prize for his work on quantum computation).
The implications of that work and the theories behind it suggest reality itself is far from concrete and can be replicated using technology of a sufficiently high level. eg: a machine can exceed the capabilities of every single sensory input that a human has. if you directly tap into the nervous system - eg: through the spinal column or directly through the brain (which could be done wirelessly), you can override the persons inputs and effectively insert your own data. i.e. the ultimate form of virtual reality. the person would not be able to distinguish it from the real world.

As a last comment if that gets anyone curious - read leonard susskind's work on the holographic principle in physics. he has a really straight forward way of explaining things. en.wikipedia.org...

Why is any of that relevant to UFOs?
...it demonstrates that reality is subjective and can be altered through multiple means, including via technology - which I think has a very direct connection back to what some people experience when interacting with these things.

a reply to: Key2life

I believe in ghosts, inter dimensional beings, aliens. I think there's evidence they all exist. My belief in inter dimensional beings is similar to the many theories Rupert Sheldrake has put out such as you lose a belonging, look everywhere and it turns up days later in exactly the spot you looked at 20 times.

I don't believe these inter dimensional beings are doing this in UFOs. I guess I could see them being the UFOs, but it wouldn't be unsettling. Maybe a little bit unsettling because it could put us a lot farther back on the search for life in space, advanced life at least. No aliens in space ships would be a bummer.

I'm pretty clairvoyant, so I can sense other intelligent energy in the room, I think it's all around us all the time. So this being the explanation for UFOs honestly wouldn't be that exciting. There's also no contactees or witnesses who have ever said anything about inter dimensional terrestrial beings. It's always been aliens. I'd be shocked if UFOs were not aliens.

a reply to: jeep3r

Just my thought about your first paragraph (hehe)...

It always is about consciousness! About how we perceive things (the order) and what can be done to interrupt the signals (and replace them).

Apparently, Tim Leary left a wide swath at Harvard!

Now, what “consciousness” means becomes a contentious point.

We, at the MetaCafe, always end up at this point.

It always ends up at consciousness.

The reason why is up for debate but I think it is because they can interfere with what we perceive.

And so can we (hence, the triangles)...

Remember, it is always the narrative and not the plot!!

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: charlyv

If that's what Vallee's theory is that anything we think of will manifest then where is Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

I think Vallee made his conclusion on UFOs based on random people describing their encounters and no credible witnesses. It's a lot of absolute thinking on his part, he has no scientific evidence for his "control system" theory which is super ambiguous term to describe UFO's.

Well, yes, but actually no. He came up with the idea after running the data. He's a computer scientist primarily, and after running the data he started to notice that the waves and descriptions of UFOs followed a curve that is exactly the same as a teaching curve. How the best way to reach and train follows a recognized sequence of the introduction of a novel idea, followed by reinforcement then removal and starting again later from a different angle. It keeps the student interested and allows them to incorporate the new idea into the framework they already know.

One of his ideas is that UFOs are attempts to communicate. We're seeing an alphabet for infants that will ultimately allow us to see a bigger reality. The "thing" trying to teach us is not just aliens, but rather something we don't currently have a working concept for. It's unfathomable to us now, but maybe later after we've gotten smarter.

There was a Far Side newspaper cartoon created back about 20 - 30 years ago. I wish I could find it.

It was 2 frames.

First there is farm scene with a road running next to it with cows grazing. A family is coming down the road and everyone is yelling "Moo" to the cows.

The second scene shows the same road, farm and cows, except it is a Flying Saucer coming down past the cows, and the aliens are all yelling "Moo"

I thought it was brilliant. Communication in context.

a reply to: charlyv

I meant to comment earlier - Gary Larson is great, the Far Side has always been a favorite of mine.

...have a glance - I couldn't see the one you're referring to, but I distinctly remember seeing it a long time ago.
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