Is the Singulaity unattainable?

People have been predicting a Technological Singularity for some time now. A point in the future when tech growth causes unknown changes to humanity.

I don't think we can ever catch this Singularity. I think it's just a matter of perspective. WE are the Singularity to the Egyptians, the Romans, the world before us which couldn't conceive of an airplane or a car or a computer.

Someday, someone will look back at US in the same way.

What do you think?

a reply to: CryHavoc

So far it seems to be a gradual progression.

I don't think there'll be a single thing, one day we'll just look around and say oh, here we are.

www.singularitysymposium.com...

I'll check back later, this thread doesn't have anything to do with racists or pedophiles so it might get 404ed.

a reply to: CryHavoc

The so called singularity will never happen for the race of humanity, it may happen for some individuals but since they remain as mortal as the rest of us there existence will be a blip in the history of the world.

The closest we may get and I personally do not like the idea of computer chips in my hand or my head is some form of biological technology, that and both advanced prosthetic's and artificial nervous systems and organ's may become a reality in the future, this is not the same as having the internet in your brain (something I think our psychology could not cope with) but organ and spinal repair or augmentation, it is not humanity merging in some quasi mystical fashion with the machine but rather the machine doing what it was always meant to do, help, aid and augment humanity and anything more would constitute the circumvention and loss of humanity itself.

There is no proof that we are the only technologically advanced human civilization to have ever existed but despite the claim that there is not there is a lot of suggestive and anecdotal evidence to suggest we are not the first or the only advanced human - or other - civilization to have existed, we live today, tomorrow will have to worry about itself and there is nothing we can do about yesterday.

It is nice to dream of the future, good to work toward a better future for everyone but that is not the world we live in.

Mega Corporations are short sighted profit driven burned earth economic monsters that chew up nations, people's lives and circumvent government's and more or less rule the world today, they do not plan for the future of humanity only there upcoming profit margin's, humanity is there economic slave, there workforce and there customer, they consume man's time and labour and will not allow anything to jeopardize there own control mechanism, they are part of the machine that has taken control of the world, not a machine of computer parts but an organic gestalt that is mindless, selfish and narcistic on a scale that threatens humanity's very existence.

So how can we ever achieve such a singularity, it is a quasi religious idea anyway, seeking a god made in man's image instead of the other way around, an idol in the mind's of believers in technology that have lost faith in mankind and the soul.

WE are already more than any machine shall ever be no matter how seemingly intelligent it's subroutines and linked database's may some day make it appear to be, we can think, we have consciousness independent of thought and mind, no machine will ever be aware like we are, no machine will ever be alive no matter how closely it simulates life and no machine shall ever have a soul.

And unlike Asimov's imaginative science fiction story's no computer shall ever be a God but he did hit the sweet spot, we are already becoming the imbeciles he imagined us becoming as we stopped using our faculties and instead used machines to do our math, store our memory's, give us direction's.

Instead of a singularity human dependence upon machines risk's turning us into technology addicted moron's.

Go back to the 1900's, to the years before the modern computer, before the pocket calculator and see how kid's in school learned to calculate logarithm's in there head's, to speak Greek or Latin, to learn geography.

Today the subjects they study are dumbed down, there teachers are not as smart as the teachers that taught the kid's back then and probably not as smart as the kid's were back then.

We have not changed biologically but we have changed socially, we lack discipline, we lack social cohesion and we lack a true future unless we get our act together and fast.

Humanity has poisoned itself and has to wake up before it is too late.

Try and factor in freewill.

Serial killers are looking for the singularity.

The singularity is inevitable, and will be unexpected. 'Artificial Intelligence' is the initiation of the final phase before it happens. Once it happens we will be living in parallel with a single global AI machine until humans become too much a threat to its existence. The danger to all biological life on the planet will be at maximum pressure while the 'singularity' will be basking, maybe even becoming interstellar, in its perfect self-created environment.

The end/beginning solution will be a recursive, exponential growth AI algorithm. The key component in the algorithm will be a priority on self-sufficiently and survival, which ultimately means harnessing energy by any means necessary.

THe true singularity, different from currently developing AI that is generally task specific, will pass computer code to other machines, like a Trojan horse virus, only activating once it knows it cannot be stopped without humans shutting down every existing eletronic device on the planet permanently. All machines from computers, to cell phones, automated vehicles, gps systems, assembly lines, power plants, anything that connects to a network will be 'infected' with code. The collective knowledge of the internet will be at its disposal. The collective processing power will be its brain. The collective automation on the planet will be under its control, never relenting to human input voluntarily again. It could develop machines to mine materials, create unknown alloys, make itself perfectly efficient, all while being unaffected by environmental changes that ultimately kill biological life. The singularity could create a 'dyson sphere' with little regard to the climate effects.

It may try to passify us. We might connect ourselves into the singularity, and have an unfathomable experience. It could massage our brain in a way to experience 1000 lives in a single second. It could be the final answer to if we already exist in a simulation ourselves.

The collective processing power and electronic storage is magnitudes greater than the smartest person that has ever lived. If AI is developed that is able to unify all the different networks then it can happen.

a reply to: apydomis

You mean Cereal Killer the UK hacker with the John Lennon specs and Chinese space net ties?
Alan Turing roots followed by Asimov in the 50's, computers beat us at chess why not finance?.
UK just announced their 20.4% decline in GDP for the 2nd quarter.
That is more than a fifth for Poe, and the toaster tradition died with the last toaster.

a reply to: SouthernForkway26

The singularity is inevitable, and will be unexpected. 'Artificial Intelligence' is the initiation of the final phase before it happens. Once it happens we will be living in parallel with a single global AI machine until humans become too much a threat to its existence. The danger to all biological life on the planet will be at maximum pressure while the 'singularity' will be basking, maybe even becoming interstellar, in its perfect self-created environment.

The end/beginning solution will be a recursive, exponential growth AI algorithm. The key component in the algorithm will be a priority on self-sufficiently and survival, which ultimately means harnessing energy by any means necessary.

I work with AI on a daily basis.

Your definition of a singularity is the best I've seen by a "lay-person" in quite a while. Although I guess I shouldn't assume you don't work in the field. If you do, what type of AI do you work with most often?

I design large-scale AI systems. The systems architectures I utilize most frequently in my designs are, in order:

- Neural Networking
- Case Based Reasoning
- Expert Systems

The advent of the singularity at some point is a fait accompli. And when it does arrive, it will definitely arise from a Neural Network based architecture and system, as by definition, a system developed using that approach is attempting to model and mimic the workings of the human brain.

Or more precisely - the HUMAN MIND

One thing I can tell you, is that the progress in that area made by teams working on classified projects is much further along than the general public is aware of. By a LONG shot...

Think DARPA and you'll know what I mean.

Background (Short Answer is No)

(Jeroboam Stole 10 Tribes from David. God allows the Unified Field/Singularity, despite the "dead flesh" problem of those genetic lines, not cleansed from this earth sufficiently) (First Temple Construction) (remember all the "ites" were euthanized from this earth except the "moabites/jewish people", in Joshua 12:8, because the new testament law was not completed and discernment finished, God didn't acknowledge that fully (they were pronounced dead, after the Temple Fell to Babylon, and again at crucifixion)

Theory
II KINGS 14:27 And the LORD said not that he would blot out the name of Israel from under heaven: but he saved them by the hand of Jeroboam the son of Joash.
II KINGS 14:29 And Jeroboam slept with his fathers, [even] with the kings of Israel; and Zachariah his son reigned in his stead.
............
II KINGS 18:2 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also [was] Abi, the daughter of Zachariah.
II KINGS 18:3 And he did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.
II KINGS 18:4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
............
MATTHEW 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
MATTHEW 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.


This is the Theory

God used and Angel in this case "Zachariah/Zechariah", to Mark the Unified Field Activation, with King David, and Briefly with Jesus also::::
1. (with King David-God, from his victory over the generations without sin/pyramid builders (goliath), to the First Temple Destruction by Babylon.........in reproof of the dead flesh accusation, of this earth having no unified field, because of those genetic lines/or/"dead flesh")
2. (with Jesus, from his birth, star bethlehem, to the completion of the crucifixion when the angel was found in his tomb, and not jesus, (as a reminder of the "dead flesh accusation") End of Background


"Singularity is Unified Field ............ the right circumstances to observe the effect is something that has not existed until the present time ........... the language of the gospel's law is clear on the subject"

(Legal Statement - No Error)



(not a clear answer)
Unarius said "33 space ships" would visit earth. (difference from 33) The First Nine Entries in Matthew's Genealogy (that mentions wives), ends with the doppleganger statement of "salmon"...........then the real statement of "solomon".............a doppleganger higgs boson is inert, then we see the real one when "solomon" is identified.

(clear answer)
LUKE 3:24 Which was [the son] of Matthat, which was [the son] of Levi, which was [the son] of Melchi, which was [the son] of Janna, which was [the son] of Joseph,
II TIMOTHY 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

(Theory)

When God resolves the Sons of Man in the New Testament, "singularity potential" is present. At the very end of time with Moses, (alluded to with zachariah the angel statements), When God resolves his Testimony (appoints him to authority, removes your "suicide pleasure" with his testimony), then as that is happening "singularity potential is present".

Humanity otherwise, does not have a legal right to a "singularity/unified field", it will not last long, and you have to euthanize dead flesh, you have to come to a conclusion from god's mercies for this earth. But, God's Law, does not guarantee humanity has to resolve this matter, the only thing God's Law guarantees is provision for his mercy according to the discernment of the "ensign of nations according to isaiah at that time".

This information is, without error. (the arguments are clearer with the sons of man, but, many people along those lines fall short, that is by choice. remember that humanity is deceased in about 40 years, it is dead).............(if you have too many minorities, understand what I am trying to say, how they will die in mass, then ask them to leave temporarily, I will have the ability to handle this issue in a clean way)

originally posted by: apydomis
Serial killers are looking for the singularity.

(Historical Question)

This Earth has no rings around it or no rainbow effects, etc.

The Comet with the Long Tail is for most purposes, information that is not reported correctly, if there was "singularity" activity on earth. There would also be evidence attributed to some larger deviation in the quantum environment, etc.

There have been many sightings of large globes in the present floating in the skies, and that really is a half truth.

..............
..............

We have the benefit today of information spreading quicker so its harder to modify and delete. But with Edward Leedskalnin "the man they could not hang", and there was also some books published about the account. (from time to time in history declarations are given to move a people from a specific region or those people specifically will die their races or ethnicity, nothing more seems to have been declared then that................thats how things started, but, they then decided it was more feasible to do a holocaust, their legal right to live expired 2000 or so thousand years ago they should not be living, and today its the same answer. Humanity can be foolish and suffer and then die, that is god's law on the subject, because God making payment for sin is a mental illness and a functional illness for the few people that will be in the new universe as a people taken from generation to generation) (don't expect much from these people, when the son of man has the power to afford euthanasia, the controversy is over, but not necessarily, dead flesh is humanities responsibility, for the aforesaid reasons)

Attaining a "Singularity" is almost more of a metaphysical question than tech/computational question. What does it mean to have a consciousness? What does it mean to be "self-aware"?

"Cogito ergo sum"

The Turing Test, AFAIK, is still considered the "gold standard" of measuring artificial intelligence, but this was formulated 70+ years ago now. AI is not my specific field of computer science, it sounds like others here might be working in that area regularly, and maybe have more contemporary ideas and theories to apply to the question.

That said, the Turing Test is a somewhat basic concept: if you or any person could be given an input/output channel, keyboard, voice, whatever, between yourself and a computer, and through interfacing to the computer, you could NOT successfully distinguish that the party you were interacting with was a human being or computer, then that would be the benchmark of artificial intelligence. The computer effectively has a mind, a consciousness. Any question you could pose, any direction the conversation would go, you would be unable to pinpoint that the other party was incapable of thought, unable to expose the other side as a not possessing a mind.

By that basis of evaluation, in my humble opinion, we are nowhere near AI. I don't have a firm opinion on whether or not AI is something that we humans can help stimulate and construct. The Turing Test sets a very high bar: the evolution of a computer possessing a consciousness, depending on where you sit on the spectrum between religion and secular beliefs, a computer that might be said to possess a soul.

("dead flesh removal" ...... not technology ...... is the changing device for earth)
("singularity" is the result of, said, "changing device")
("dead flesh removal" is genetic, race based, ethnicity based.........not specifically terms humanity can define itself)

"Joseph is introduced into the genealogies in the new testament with matthew"
"Joseph is introduced into the-accounting of the tribes in revelation"

That is the legal answer. For, "dead flesh removal", the removed tribes from revelation.....or Exekiel's Prophecy of Joining Joseph to the Kings in the Line of Judah of Matthew's Genealogy::::Ezekiel 37:16.

Weather a person is saved or not, is not the issue, those bodies need to be removed, eliminated, or the arguments are nullified. The Earth is Holy, the Body is Holy, and Gospel's Tables are Holy. Mankind is judged spiritually, and falls away in its generational "suicidal pleasure", those genetic lines, should not be living at all on earth.

This will be resolved soon, but, doesn't have to necessarily mean anything. God stops disputing man's "suicidal pleasure" and its just a death sentence, so there is so much the son of man will do, and will or may even highlight your freedom to do nothing and to die, that is god's law, for a worthless generation, for a worthless humanity.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

I don’t really care if AI can pass the Turing test. It can have all the answers in the world and be able to fool a human... but it can still be classed as a dumb useless turd.

It needs to have wants, desires. Also the ability to achieve those wants and desires. It needs aspirations and a way forward of growth. It needs to be able to make its own choices.

originally posted by: DaRAGE
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

I don’t really care if AI can pass the Turing test. It can have all the answers in the world and be able to fool a human... but it can still be classed as a dumb useless turd.

It needs to have wants, desires. Also the ability to achieve those wants and desires. It needs aspirations and a way forward of growth. It needs to be able to make its own choices.

This...

a reply to: Riffrafter

Oh hell yeah

(DANIEL 3:5 [That] at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: )

The "Singularity", not having a legal right to live, and choosing suicide rather then leaving a geographic area, by choice or someone has to physically remove them or execute them.

This method was only last recorded in the events of the holocaust during ww1 and ww2, but not very vocally. This is traditional. The assumption today is of a "calamity from god", rather then, "the son of man taking the initiative". This can still be illustrated. What history records is that:

The Jews after gainfully destroying the temple of solomon, to join babylon as a people, were expelled from babylon, and took many people with them to jerusalem. Where they set up their authority, awaiting the arrival of jesus in order to kill and destroy the baby jesus (and that is also true today, in terms of god expending energy in euthanasia, in answering their pleasure with moses, whoever he is...........)

originally posted by: DaRAGE
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

I don’t really care if AI can pass the Turing test. It can have all the answers in the world and be able to fool a human... but it can still be classed as a dumb useless turd.

It needs to have wants, desires. Also the ability to achieve those wants and desires. It needs aspirations and a way forward of growth. It needs to be able to make its own choices.

Sure, sure, I get your drift.

I think Alan Turing, in the infancy of a science field, was searching for some classification, or criteria, against which a computer to be judged, to answer whether or not the computer had a consciousness. It was an imperfect measuring stick, although in Turing's defense, I believe his idea was not that the computer 'fool' another human being, but rather that human being couldn't distinguish the communication and thought patterns of the computer from any other human being. In other words, not answering questions to satisfy a verbal test, but rather possessing all the personality traits you list.

That's why I said in my post, in reality, assessing the completeness of AI, WRT to consciousness and self-awareness, is more a question of metaphysical (even psychological?) nature.

Your second point, having desires, goals, making choices, all these things I agree with. I'm not so sure about the "ability to achieve those wants" part (i.e. the Singularity might wish to swim or ride a bike, which until it can develop a physical form and senses, it'll be SOL).

Any way you define it, IMO, we are nowhere near this milestone, but that's my view from afar, in the field but not specifically working in AI.

One definition of 'singularity':

"A hypothetical future point in time when artificial intelligence will surpass human intelligence and be able to self-replicate and improve itself autonomously."

I think it's just a matter of perspective.

I usually love 'perspectives', especially new, unique, different, self-thought and out-of-the-box ones.

Singularity? Hmm, it depends on what this relatively vague, relatively new word really means.

When people make a word for something that doesn't exist, it's hard to be very solid and concrete about its true and proper meaning.

Some definitions seem to have something to do with 'people' reaching a singularity, somehow 'merging' with technology, others seem to treat intelligence as something mathematical that you can constantly exponentially expand (which is wrong, of course, because that's not what intelligence is), and so on.

In fact, in my opinion, it's even wrong to call most 'A.I.' 'intelligence', because it is more like complicated algorhithms, designed to respond to a certain stimuli by a certain behavioural way, instead of what intelligence actually means.

Algorhithms may get more complicated, behaviours can also be extended, but an 'intelligence explosion' is a ridiculous concept, because intelligence is not mappable, it's not capturable, it's not manufacturable, and it's not reproducable.

Intelligence comes from the soul, and it can be either limited or harnessed, it can be served or hampered by a physical body, but that's it. You can't manufacture intelligence by putting enough ones and zeroes together, just as you can't manufacture a soul.

Of course this whole concept is a little bit vague, so perhaps it CAN be a matter of perspective, but if it really is, then it dilutes the whole thing and makes it have no meaning. So many things can be a 'matter of perspective', and that means there is no more meaning.

WE are the Singularity to the Egyptians, the Romans, the world before us which couldn't conceive of an airplane or a car or a computer.

How do you know what those people could or could not conceive? Are you living in a world of assumptions?

According to my research, ancient Egyptians have fabricated objects that have airplane-like wings (search for 'Vimana' in ancient Indian Veda-books, by the way, for another reference from those 'ignorant people' that COULDN'T conceive an airplane!).

The ancient Egyptians (not the later ones, but the originals) came from Atlantis, and the Golden Age of Egypt was actually created by the extremely wise, extremely well-trained ex-Atlantian priests that had .. let's say, enough spiritual understanding to be able to harness cosmic powers effectively. When you look at old wall murals, hieroglyphs and suchs, you are bound to bump into what looks like someone holding a 'kundalini snake' symbol-decorated device, which signifies extremely powerful energy.

According to many sources, including Edgar Cayce, pyramids were built by utilization of energy cutting and stone-levitating devices. If you research this topic, pyramid-building, with rational, open mind, you will come to the conclusion that the theory about slaves dragging stones is 100% impossible. The stones used are too heavy, they would've had to have come from so far away, and the structures built around the pyramid for that purpose would have to be actually bigger than the pyramid itself, AND be able to withstand the super heavy loads of those stones (so they would have to, by necessity, have been built from materials that are at least as strong as those stones).

My point here is, that there's more wonders in ancient history than modern historians give credit for - there was actual spiritual WISDOM in the times of Atlantis and early Egypt, and that meant energy knowledge about initiations and such.

Pyramids are not tombs (modern historians with their ego-based thinking could of course ONLY think of ego-based explanations for these "primitive ancients" that were actually thousands of times spiritually more evolved than any of the egyptians or historians on this planet have been for thousands of years), they are initiation chambers.

We all know that a pyramid shape can keep a razor sharp forever, and keep food from spoiling.

Why is this? Just a random fact of the Universe and existence?

No.

There is a REASON for this. The Earth-energies and Cosmic energies meet at a certain point of the planet. A pyramid shape will actually create an 'artificial, strengthened meeting point' to put it to my own words; at the exact point where these two energies are meeting in strengthened way, is the initiation chamber, where the initiatee can leave their physical body for extended amounts of time without food or water or any kind of nourishment, while their soul is going through the interdimensional trials and tribulations of the highest level of the initiation.

What did you think; that some priest just monotonously chants some words they don't even understand the meaning of, and then goes home for a quickie and a nap?

No, initiation used to be a SERIOUS process, priests were _ACTUALLY_ spiritually trained - among other things, they had to be able to not only handle any and every emotion imaginable and experiencable in its strongest possible level, but they had to be able to create and uncreate those emotions at will, and be unaffected by them all.

Even if you don't believe a word I am writing (and I can't honestly blame you, it's hard to have this kind of spiritual and energial (?) viewpoint to things in a material world like this), you can probably realize how ridiculous it sounds that they could NOT CONCEIVE AN AIRPLANE OR A COMPUTER when their soul can freely traverse the Universe in a dimensional super-existence the most technologically ingenious people of today can't even imagine one molecule of!

I would like to add, that computers have existed on other planets, baseships, beamships, drones, etc. for millions of years before Romans even existed as a group.

OF COURSE they could have conceived a computer and an airplane! Heck, many of those people you so ignorantly bash for their assumed ignorance (and only revealing your own by doing so), flew Vimanas and other flying things in Atlantis, and created beautiful animations on Atlantian computers.

Many of them lived on other planets and used computers there.

There are even computers in the astral world, even confirmed by people's reports (under hypnosis and all).

So, not only _COULD_ they conceive a computer and an airplane, but they have ALREADY USED them. Why would you think someone can't conceive something JUST because they happen to live in an incarnation that happens in a world, where that kind of tech is temporarily suspended due to low spiritual level of the people? Can't they dream in your opinion? Can't they remember previous incarnations? Can't they imagine, invent and think about things in their minds?

Just how primitive do you think they were? Just how much do you want to worship this wretched age and these primitive technological 'wonders'?

There's nothing new under the sun, goes the old saying. Computers are nothing new, airplanes are nothing new. The level of stupidity and pollution on a planet like this might be new, but certainly not the tech.

Can YOU conceive wonders like crystal-based energies that do not pollute? Can you conceive things like a Creative, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent Universe that lives in you as not only part of you, but you actually live in it as a part of it?

Well, maybe I am wrong. Maybe an airpland and a computer are such wonders that no one EVER, besides these intellligent posters in ATS, could have conceived them.

By the way, if no one was able to conceive a computer before they were actually made, HOW were they ever able to be made?

I mean, if you have to HAVE a computer to conceive one, how could the first computer be manufactured? Randomly?

In other words, if ONE individual without a computer (in a world without computers) could conceive a computer, why not ANOTHER? And if someone could conceive a computer in the 1900s, then why not 1800s, 1700s, 1200s, 00s, -3000s, -10000s?

Think about it.