Secession of states from The Union post-2020 Presidential Election?

When people who live in the most free country on earth talk about secession, it's pretty childlike. Adults compromise and find a way to live together.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Drucifer

Well when they dont have any confidence regarding the Man in office, what do you expect them to do?

Just sit there and let him be King Trump.

My understanding is that's not how the senate nor democratic process operates in the USA.

And it's not like the man in question is short of supplying them with the ammunition to do just that.

Doesn’t matter how much confidence they have in him. They’re job isn’t to ensure someone is or isn’t living up to their expectations.

Under what administration did the plan to go after illegal immigrants take place? Obama or Trump? But who got all the sh!t for actually carrying it out? Who was called “racist” over and over for it?

Trump cut travel from China at the start of the corona BS and while I think it was half-assed and should have been a complete travel ban, what was he called for it? “Xenophobic”. Imagine the US now if he never put the ban in place....we’re bad enough as it is.

I can’t believe I’m in a f*cking thread defending Trump. I really can’t stand the guy, but I can’t stand the Dems just the same. They’ve been instigating and antagonizing him the entire time he’s been in office. He’s either too stupid to figure that out, or he just likes crawling around in the mud with them.

Trump has PLENTY of faults. The problem is, the Dems couldn’t just do their job and let him screw himself over.

All this has brought the country to a level where full grown adults cheer on trolling and see it as an actual pastime. It’s disgusting, really, and anyone involved in it needs a foot shoved up their ass and if they’re an elected official, then they need to be stripped of their powers, get a foot up the ass and then they can go hang out with their teenagers in their basements while they troll social media.

a reply to: Drucifer

If only the old "foot up the ass" and sent off the field in disgrace tactic worked i don't imagine the US would ever be in this mess.

Trump does indeed have plenty of faults.

As to the real problem, well that lies in the muppets put forward for the positions of power in the first place, and the fact that the two-party system is broken.

People don't vote for who they like they vote for the lesser of two evils, and that's just mental, its like voting whither to get shot or stabbed to death ffs.

a reply to: Blaine91555

When people who live in the most free country on earth talk about secession......

But it's not 'the most free country on earth' as has been shown on numerous occassions.

Anyway, asking a question about the possibility of states seceding from The Union can hardly be described as 'childish'.
Some may say the same couldn't be said about some of the responses in this thread!

a reply to: Freeborn

I suppose that's a matter of perspective. Regulations on speech and on things like guns are a lack of freedom. Not to mention the number of people that want to be here so badly, they break the law just to be here. Other countries are far more regulated, with even speech being regulated. That's not truly free.

I'll stick with secession being childish. Adults work out problems and find solutions.

Think about what would happen if a state actually did that. It would benefit no one. Our true strength is in our diversity.

How'd that "being illegal to secede"..... work out for Kosovo?
or maybe Crimea ..... it was illegal for them to secede too.

If the people vote and the people choose.... let no man stand in their way

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: murphy22
a reply to: ElGoobero

A "moderate", is the lowest kind of slime that exists and the sure sign of a lazy mind. They stand for nothing! Because they don't want to work to uphold a standard. And can't be, as an individual, relied. upon.
There is right, or wrong! Not "kinda".

Moderates are people that are susceptible to "advertising" and facial expressions. They're useful idiots.

Reagan, Bill Clinton and JFK were moderates. You must truly hate them I'm guessing.

Actually we moderates stand for a lot of things. Most people are moderate in fact. The hard core Left and Right are the source of all the gridlock and all the crazies.

Perhaps split the country into sections, Left, Right and Moderate Independents? Split based on real numbers. That way Moderates would get most of the land.

I like that, I like it even more coming from a mod here at ATS, but you aren't alone.

Living where I do.....and I do live where is says in the box, what we had here was pretty disgraceful, and it was only after many people dying, that things turned around, it was the thinkers and moderates that turned it around eventually, not the gunmen. That the gunmen agreed to accede, is given as certain guarantees of one kind or another, however the overriding thing was apparent to everybody, civilians were by far the biggest victims, and those killings perpetrated by all combatants, and I mean all.
I lived through all that, and played the venues, just like many colleagues did. Some were not so lucky.

So, when somebody talks about moderates being slime, they should look at what happened here...starting at a time when things were actually beginning to change, albeit very slowly, but changing, and given that somebodies tag here, I would say, think again, we live in a big world, and nobody owns it.

a reply to: smurfy

Being where you are, you most certainly have a good perspective on things.

Tribalism seems to be imprinted in our genes. While most of us get that working together to solve problems is the only way, there will always be those who think they must have it all their own way and everyone else be damned. Hopefully at some point the world will evolve beyond that.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: SKEPTEK

The US was/is synonymous with freedom many decades after the Civil War.

But not free enough to leave if they want?

Or be a damn, pinko commie bastard.

as an individual one is free to leave anytime.
but one can't take their state with.

as opposed to Berlin which built a wall to trap people in. or Cuba which outlaws emigration.

a reply to: deadlysyn

Mueller did, for a net total of zero results.

Wrong.

Here's everyone who has been charged, convicted, and sentenced in the Russia probe so far

Stone had his sentence commuted.

But the conviction stands.

Stop peddling fake #.

By the way, who put the FBI up to a 6AM raid on a 60 year old man,

FBI serves warrants on, and raids, suspected criminals. Or is there an age limit?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Liquesence

How'd that work out last time?

Sure, I get that.

But surely there's an argument that supports the idea of States being able to secede from The Union if they wish.....it's called The Right To Self-Determination.

I'm not saying it is going to happen, just wondering if its feasible and what the reaction would be if any state did wish to do so.

It should be interesting to see the very states which hate Trump so much secede from the tit of the Nanny State that feeds them ... omg what a sight ... but it would never happen ... we will just see more of what we have seen for 3 1/2 years and Soros paid insurrection.

a reply to: Liquesence

Are you really that sure ?

🤓

Hardly, a moderate can accept that extreme positions don’t always make for the best solution, accepts there is no universally correct point of view, and enjoys critically thinking through issues over political dogma.

Choosing a team and sticking with it cause it’s your team dang it... an argument could be made that’s a lower scum.
a reply to: murphy22

a reply to: ElGoobero

as an individual one is free to leave anytime.
but one can't take their state with.

Good job people in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Tajikstan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia, Slovenia didn't allow that to get in their way.

Slightly different maybe but........

What happens if in the future there is a majority of say 75% of the population of a state or states in favour of secession over a relatively prolongued period would they be 'allowed' to express their Right to Self-Determination?

I can assure you that back in say the 60's, 70's and early 80's no-one would ever have thought the afore mentioned countries would ever be seperate, independent nation states with full autonomy.
Who knows what the future holds?

a reply to: Freeborn

the first secession lead to civil war and it only increased federal power and made any future secession illegal, second time would only make the federal government even stronger and more centralized. eventually i see states just being another arm of the federal government with no real power and only acting as a manager of the land and enforcing federal laws. its the inevitable direction things are going regardless of the current situation.

a reply to: namehere

If that's true then it seems the USA is moving in a completely different direction to that which its Founding Fathers, who so many seem to hold in almost holy reverence, envisaged.

Wouldn't such a move bring about more conflict with individual states?

I can't imagine the more libertarian amongst you take that without a bit of a struggle.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Freeborn

And secondly: what happens when this upcoming election - well, as long as Trump doesn't get to 'delay' the vote - rips the US even further apart? What happens post-2020 election, will the states be even further distant from each other

Don't worry, Biden will send in the Feds to maintain and restore order among the rebellious states.

 

there a possibility that there will be a move towards a break up of the USA?

Unlikely. How'd that work out last time?

Biden? He couldn't send in the mail in his condition, let alone Federal authorities. WTF plane of existence are you occupying right now.

Yeah the guy can’t even drink a glass of water with one hand ! Silly Biden .

You cant compare ethnic groups with people who happen to live in California - the states cant succeed no matter how much money China and Russia throw at them to do so.

The founding fathers experienced far more turbulence than today - they were traitors against the crown and had to kill alot of people to get their way.

a reply to: circuitsports

So, nearly 250 years later you think it would be fine to kill a whole lot of people to force them to stay in a Union they didn't want to be in?

Comparing circumstances in the 1770's with circumstances in the 2020's is quite frankly bizarre.
Things change, people change, standards and values change......countries change.

Granted this is a hypothetical scenario but there is a possibility that somewhere down the line a state or states could wish to leave The Union - be it during Trump's reign or one of his successors - and I'm wondering what justifications could be used to deny them their wish or how it would play out.

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck
a reply to: Freeborn


First of all: what does that tell us about Trump and his Presidency? Actually the question is why has the Democrats not accepted the will of the people and the historically friendly transfer of power from one administration to the next? In my opinion this animosity began when GWB was elected and the Clinton administration took the keys off of type writers and loaded porn into the copy machines.

You mean like when Obama won and the republicans immediately said "we are the party of no and won't cooperate with this president"? Then when he won again the republicans continued so stomp their feet (8 years straight) doing everything they could to prevent the will of the people. Stop being so hypocritical. The most basic stuff and you can't get it right.