Secession of states from The Union post-2020 Presidential Election?

I authored this thread back in November 2016 two days after Trump's victory in the last US Presidential election.

Basically I was asking if there was any chance of any states seceding from the Union in light of the very acrimonious election campaign.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'd previously watched Regan, Bush 1 and 2, Clinton and Obama get elected but that election was particulary bitter.
I thought there were some deep divisions that needed healing but most people said that it was normal for people to be particularly passionate during Presidential elections and that things would soon calm down.

But they haven't.
In fact I'd say the US is far more divided now than it was four years ago.

First of all: what does that tell us about Trump and his Presidency?
And secondly: what happens when this upcoming election - well, as long as Trump doesn't get to 'delay' the vote - rips the US even further apart? What happens post-2020 election, will the states be even further distant from each other and is there a possibility that there will be a move towards a break up of the USA?

a reply to: Freeborn

And secondly: what happens when this upcoming election - well, as long as Trump doesn't get to 'delay' the vote - rips the US even further apart? What happens post-2020 election, will the states be even further distant from each other

Don't worry, Biden will send in the Feds to maintain and restore order among the rebellious states.

there a possibility that there will be a move towards a break up of the USA?

Unlikely. How'd that work out last time?

a reply to: Freeborn


First of all: what does that tell us about Trump and his Presidency? Actually the question is why has the Democrats not accepted the will of the people and the historically friendly transfer of power from one administration to the next? In my opinion this animosity began when GWB was elected and the Clinton administration took the keys off of type writers and loaded porn into the copy machines.

a reply to: Liquesence

How'd that work out last time?

Sure, I get that.

But surely there's an argument that supports the idea of States being able to secede from The Union if they wish.....it's called The Right To Self-Determination.

I'm not saying it is going to happen, just wondering if its feasible and what the reaction would be if any state did wish to do so.

a reply to: Freeborn

No, i don't think so.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Freeborn

And secondly: what happens when this upcoming election - well, as long as Trump doesn't get to 'delay' the vote - rips the US even further apart? What happens post-2020 election, will the states be even further distant from each other

Don't worry, Biden will send in the Feds to maintain and restore order among the rebellious states.

 

there a possibility that there will be a move towards a break up of the USA?

Unlikely. How'd that work out last time?

Biden? He couldn't send in the mail in his condition, let alone Federal authorities. WTF plane of existence are you occupying right now.

a reply to: Freeborn
California threatened after 2016, and then did nothing, suggesting that talk of secession was gesture politics like individuals threatening to emigrate.

There is precedent for what happens when states try to secede, though firm action does require majority control of Congress. I've just begun re-reading my books on Lincoln's Civil War. Ironically, secession made his political task easier, in a sense. If the seceding states had not withdrawn their representatives, he would have had great difficulty in getting any measures through Congress. The opponents of Trump have more power within the system than they would have if they tried to leave it, and they probably know that.

a reply to: Freeborn

Well trying to delay the election suggests Trump's crapping his breeks.

And his suggestion that he would be unwilling to accept the results down to imaginary voter mail fraud is a complete and utter crock of crap.

As to the secession of any states down to Trump's antics, well that would just be playing to his suit.

They will probably have to drag the nasty angry old Man kicking and screaming out the Whitehouse door if we are honest.

But i imagine the United States will remain somewhat intact.

a reply to: Freeborn

On a good presidential election, about 50% of Americans vote. Of voters, there are about 30%~ dems, 30%~ rep, the rest being independent.

Now, of the 50%, most don't follow the news... The remaining amount mainstream, and an ultra minority really keep up with things.

Most of my country is apathetic, and honestly I can't blame them given the candidates we get to choose from, with the establishment keeping lukewarm limp wristed unseasoned chicken with overcooked broccoli.

There might be a couple of uproars here and there.... But most people are just trying to get by.

Nothing is different with Trump, we're still compounding debt (covid omitted)... And not much would be different with Biden. Hell, we all know he's just a cadaver anyways with a hand up is ass controlling the puppet.

It is what it is. You won't see me trying to do a damn thing either. Most people don't care, I'm not going to push my ideology on them since it's my pet peeve when people do that to me.

Proudly a libertarian, knowing full well I'll never get what I want.

a reply to: Freeborn

But surely there's an argument that supports the idea of States being able to secede from The Union if they wish.....it's called The Right To Self-Determination.

Constitutionally? It's not "legal" according to the SCOTUS (Texas v. White), and would require a Constitutional amendment to be as such, which is equally unlikely.

Also:

If there were any doubt remaining after that, late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia set it to rest more than a century later with his response to a letter from a screenwriter in 2006 asking if there is a legal basis for secession.

“The answer is clear,” Scalia wrote. “If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, 'one Nation, indivisible.')”

Can Texas legally Secede

And I doubt the United States Government would allow a state to secede, hence the previous war.

I'm not saying it is going to happen, just wondering if its feasible and what the reaction would be if any state did wish to do so.

It's been tried, in more than one way (war, and petition). Both failed.

originally posted by: Freeborn
I authored this thread back in November 2016 two days after Trump's victory in the last US Presidential election.

Basically I was asking if there was any chance of any states seceding from the Union in light of the very acrimonious election campaign.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'd previously watched Regan, Bush 1 and 2, Clinton and Obama get elected but that election was particulary bitter.
I thought there were some deep divisions that needed healing but most people said that it was normal for people to be particularly passionate during Presidential elections and that things would soon calm down.

But they haven't.
In fact I'd say the US is far more divided now than it was four years ago.

First of all: what does that tell us about Trump and his Presidency?
And secondly: what happens when this upcoming election - well, as long as Trump doesn't get to 'delay' the vote - rips the US even further apart? What happens post-2020 election, will the states be even further distant from each other and is there a possibility that there will be a move towards a break up of the USA?

We already have a thread that's much more salient on the matter of the "political divide" in the US; it's not so simple as to presume that any fracture in the country would be along state lines. As has been discussed at length in the other thread, the seeds of dissent have been sewn over a much longer time period than this election cycle, and the roots of disagreement don't feed off of regional politics, it's the cultural/political differences between urban and rural, "city" and "country" that are splitting our sidewalk. There are some nice red 'n blue pictures in the other thread of which I speak, that tell the tale more succinctly and convincingly than words can.

There will be no succesion not enough people behind it even on the left, and there certainly isn't enough on the right. Eventhough the rest of the world wishes it would happen.

Moderates on both sides would rise up and squash any of that BS talk.

originally posted by: putnam6
There will be no succesion not enough people behind it even on the left, and there certainly isn't enough on the right. Eventhough the rest of the world wishes it would happen.

Moderates on both sides would rise up and squash any of that BS talk.

Precisely.

Any fantasies over California exiting the union would morph into nightmares right quick once the citizens of that state realize what nations like China would have in store for them, sans the full might and force of the US military at their beck and call.

It's just posturing and an outlet valve for trolling/b!tching about the political opposition.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Freeborn

And secondly: what happens when this upcoming election - well, as long as Trump doesn't get to 'delay' the vote - rips the US even further apart? What happens post-2020 election, will the states be even further distant from each other

Don't worry, Biden will send in the Feds to maintain and restore order among the rebellious states.

 

there a possibility that there will be a move towards a break up of the USA?

Unlikely. How'd that work out last time?

Biden? He couldn't send in the mail in his condition, let alone Federal authorities. WTF plane of existence are you occupying right now.

You mean everyone here is not A-ok with the US Government sending in the feds to individual states to suppress "uprisings"...or a "secession?"

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Freeborn

And secondly: what happens when this upcoming election - well, as long as Trump doesn't get to 'delay' the vote - rips the US even further apart? What happens post-2020 election, will the states be even further distant from each other

Don't worry, Biden will send in the Feds to maintain and restore order among the rebellious states.

 

Especially if Biden loses the election 😎

I will just be happy to see all the assholes that said they would leave the country if Trump won in 2016, really leave for good when he wins again.

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Member must Stay on Topic!!!
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

No Political Trolling.....either in words or images.
Is There Civilization Without Civility

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

originally posted by: putnam6

Moderates on both sides would rise up and squash any of that BS talk.

there are no more moderate leftists / Democrats (maybe Joe Manchin)

not one national Democrat, for instance, has condemned the mob violence in Portland etc.

I wish they would split. would be better for all concerned.

a reply to: andy06shake

Seeing that the socialist left, have been attempting a "soft coup" from day one, after Pres. Trump's election. And were using their "plants" in government agencies" to derail his attempt to become President. And now that they are useing the "pandemic" as an excuse to get what they've always wanted (mail in ballots), the "pandemic" along with other things, their little commie minds have dreamed of.

If that is the way we will be "voting" in the future? We're screwed! The Dems are notorious for having pet's, dead people and illegals, "Having Their voices Heard" and "Counted"....

I'm not against Trump's idea.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Freeborn
Well trying to delay the election suggests Trump's crapping his breeks.

And his suggestion that he would be unwilling to accept the results down to imaginary voter mail fraud is a complete and utter crock of crap.

As to the secession of any states down to Trump's antics, well that would just be playing to his suit.

They will probably have to drag the nasty angry old Man kicking and screaming out the Whitehouse door if we are honest.

But i imagine the United States will remain somewhat intact.

It is hilarious watching people complain that Trump might not accept the outcome of the next election and might find reasons to argue why the election was illegitimate when we have just spent 4 years watching his opposition doing everything in their power to not accept the out come of the last election and invent reasons why it was illegitimate.

People do like to project hard their own feelings and manners on to others these days it would seem.

I think it is far more likely that Donald Trump will feel that he can not leave the white house fast enough after losing the next election than it would be for him to try to hold onto power. Same with those states that have a majority that support him; their will be angry online complaints but nothing much more than that ... certainly not 4 years of concocting hoax after hoax to try and fail to remove Biden from office.