Hydroxychloroquine Still Doesn’t Do Anything, New Data Shows

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

You cling to hope knowing there are medications you could try but the Doctors hands are tied he dare not risk his license treating you with HydroxyChloroquine

Don't think I've ever expressed opposition against ones choice to use HCQ freely, as they please. I'm a firm believer in choice with regards to these matters. The OP isn't concerned with this end of the debate but rather the facts at hand behind HCQ's actual effectiveness, which to date, neither you nor others have managed to show.

Studies have been presented southern , you simply Choose to ignore them.

www.henryford.com...
www.youtube.com...


There are many positive studies for HCQ they are simply censored very difficult to find.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Yep, once again overlooking the OP.

The Henry Ford Study had already been addressed right at the start in the OP here.

That study was done from an observational standpoint and concluded there appeared to be benefit from Hydroxychloroquine against COVID-19. Observational studies mean you're going back and looking at patients as opposed to folllowing them and going forward in time. It certainly isn't Gold Standard by any measure. With that particular study, when reviewed, 80% of those patients in that study that were given Hydroxychloroquine were also receiving a steroid medication which had been shown to be beneficial, this conflicted with results given the mix of the two treatments.

When cornered, you'll go back to unreliable studies or unqualified individuals like the Psychiatrist or our local armed chair wizard, Redneck. I'll continue to repeat, correct, likewise.

Not interested in your youtube links. Proper sources, thanks.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

More cuteness.

Not once have I stated I am more knowledgeable that either Dr. Fauci or Dr. Birx. I challenge you right here and now to show where I have made such a statement. My position has been and will continue to be until proven wrong to my satisfactions that the triple treatment which uses hydroxychloroquine in combination with additional treatments has not been adequately shown in clinical trials to be effective nor ineffective. No trials using the full treatment have been conducted, and that includes your links which you are unable to read.

The absence of proof is not proof of absence.

I have actually done the exact thing you have been unsuccessful at doing. You cherry-picked specific studies and tried to interpret them as being relevant beyond their scope (none of which were authored by Dr. Fauci or Dr. Birx... not sure why they are relevant to the studies, but whatever). I picked specific studies which are relevant to the points raised. Of course, I actually read the papers you linked, while you expressly refused to even look at the ones I linked.

Incidentally, you also just proved your own incompetence... again! My God, you're getting good at doing so! I suppose congratulations on that are in order... but I digress. You just claimed I was educated at some place called the "University of Life"? Really? The degrees on my wall say something completely different. So do the awards. So do the certificates. So do the... you get the idea. My expertise is based on University education and years of experience.

So I can only assume you are using projection again. Well, at least now everyone reading knows you were educated at the "University of Life"... wherever that is. Is it a community college?

TheRedneck

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Don't think I've ever expressed opposition against ones choice to use HCQ freely, as they please. I'm a firm believer in choice with regards to these matters.

Say what?

40 pages of you demanding that hydroxychloroquine is suddenly deadly, useless, and that there can be no further discussion on those points, and you now want to claim that you aren't trying to dissuade people from using it? I'm starting to see why you can't read studies... you apparently can't read your own posts!

Stop with the lies already... own the agenda you're pushing like an adult.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

ot once have I stated I am more knowledgeable that either Dr. Fauci or Dr. Birx

Yes you did, hence your insistence of their ignorance over the zinc addition and neglecting the other studies you deemed relevant. There's also the fact you brought into question some of their agendas. You're doing exactly that and you know it. Now you're cowardly trying to step those back, as usual.

You're an armed chair expert heavily on an internet forum. You have little to no authority on these matters. Rinse, repeat.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Do you have a link from the worlds foremost medical expert on infectious diseases.

That will also not be on Gilead's pay roll have an actual study with real data that can be verified?


Could you also clarify
which date range of official narrative you're using as it changes so often it hard to keep up.
The region the official narrative refers too would be good, as again different places different rules.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Yes you did, hence your insistence of their ignorance over the zinc addition and neglecting the other studies you deemed relevant.

Link, please. Liar.

There's also the fact you brought into question some of their agendas.

Of course I did. Are you claiming that neither of them have any political beliefs?

Never mind... you got no link because it never happened, and you won't answer a legitimate question. You've lost your humor... again.

Go catch your breath and I'll maybe respond again later. Right now I'm watching wrasslin'. You might want to try it. They lie like you do, but they admit it. They can also be entertaining for longer.

TheRedneck

a reply to: puzzled2

Do you have a link from the worlds foremost medical expert on infectious diseases.

This had already been provided, and will be on repeat.

Dr. Birx: Randomized trials show benefit for remdesivir, but not hydroxychloroquine

Dr. Fauci says all the ‘valid’ scientific data shows hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in treating coronavirus

The World Health Organisation: Studies show hydroxychloroquine does not have clinical benefits in treating COVID-19

WHO says trials show malaria and HIV drugs don't cut Covid-19 hospital deaths

NIH Halts Hydroxychloroquine Study; Says 'Unlikely' To Help COVID-19 Patients

British Heart Foundation: Why hydroxychloroquine isn't a "miracle cure" for coronavirus

Do not use hydroxychloroquine for COVID: National Taskforce (Australia)

a reply to: TheRedneck

Link, please.

You're in no position to request anything further from me Redneck, just as is your position concerned viable medical treatments.

It's all recorded on this thread.

Stella Immanuel - the doctor behind unproven coronavirus cure claim

BBC: Despite some early studies raising hopes that the drug could be used to cure coronavirus, one subsequent larger scale trial has shown it is not effective as a treatment.

Her sermons are available on a YouTube account set up in 2009.

Five years ago, she alleged that alien DNA was being used in medical treatments, and that scientists were cooking up a vaccine to prevent people from being religious.

Some of her other claims include blaming medical conditions on witches and demons - a common enough belief among some evangelical Christians - though she says they have sex with people in a dream world.

"They turn into a woman and then they sleep with the man and collect his sperm… then they turn into the man and they sleep with a man and deposit the sperm and reproduce more of themselves," she said during a sermon in 2013.

Another issue that Dr Immanuel targets is gay marriage, saying it can result in adults marrying children

Thank God neither of you are allowed to give medical advice to the vulnerable and sick. I'm more concerned about actors outside this forum.

a reply to: Southern Guardian
Wow

That study was done from an observational standpoint and concluded there appeared to be benefit from Hydroxychloroquine against COVID-19. Observational studies mean you're going back and looking at patients as opposed to folllowing them and going forward in time.

Bit of dick statement there Southern the ford Study was observational because they observed in real time for a clue

The study followed the patient’s electrocardiograms (ECGs), and heart status throughout, checking for any of the alleged cardiac problems, to make sure the HCQ didn’t cause harm

You don't do that after the fact.

Do you want to discuss medical exams and patient care used in the Ford study compared with your "Gold Standard' Clinical Trial Finds Hydroxychloroquine Won't Prevent COVID-1. " link you published earlier.

You could list all the things that make it a "gold standard " so we might understand how great your evidence is.


Or you could insult us all thencut and paste your news clippings again, as we haven't seen them for a few pages.

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: Southern Guardian
Wow

That study was done from an observational standpoint and concluded there appeared to be benefit from Hydroxychloroquine against COVID-19. Observational studies mean you're going back and looking at patients as opposed to folllowing them and going forward in time.

Bit of dick statement there Southern the ford Study was observational because they observed in real time for a clue

The study followed the patient’s electrocardiograms (ECGs), and heart status throughout, checking for any of the alleged cardiac problems, to make sure the HCQ didn’t cause harm

You don't do that after the fact.

Do you want to discuss medical exams and patient care used in the Ford study compared with your "Gold Standard' Clinical Trial Finds Hydroxychloroquine Won't Prevent COVID-1. " link you published earlier.

You could list all the things that make it a "gold standard " so we might understand how great your evidence is.


Or you could insult us all thencut and paste your news clippings again, as we haven't seen them for a few pages.

Have they been updated AT ALL? Or does he continue sharing the same tired old and debunked articles over and over?

a reply to: toolgal462
no, he likes to rinse and repeat provide very few links that are not news articles and when he does post to a study it gets ripped apart and he insults complains and rinses and repeats.
Think Phage called it Gish Galloping and then there is the other debating tactics of not trying to prove his initial point but just discredit anyone that disagrees. Much like MSN did to the worlds Foremost infectious disease expert, (with actual document in the 1,000s of papers ) .

Hence his strange fascination with going thru all your prior post to go ah - you ...... which discredits your current message, NOT!.

Actually hoping he will discuss his Gold standard RCT will be eye opening.

a reply to: puzzled2

You don't do that after the fact.

You're in the wrong here puzzled.

Fauc i: Henry Ford Health's hydroxychloroquine study 'flawed'

Dr. Anthony Fauci told federal lawmakers Friday that a study by Henry Ford Health System that showed hydroxychloroquine was effective in lowering the death rate among COVID-19 patients was "flawed."

Health officials should instead rely on the "gold standard" of a randomized, placebo controlled study to determine whether the drug is effective, Fauci told the U.S. House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis.

"The Henry Ford Hospital study that was published was a non-controlled retrospective cohort study that was confounded by a number of issues, including the fact that many people who were receiving hydroxychloroquine were also using corticosteroids, which we know from another study gives a clear benefit in reducing deaths with advanced disease," said Fauci, the nation's leading infectious disease expert advising the White House on the coronavirus response.

And you're out of depth.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: puzzled2

Do you have a link from the worlds foremost medical expert on infectious diseases.

This had already been provided, and will be on repeat.

Dr. Birx: Randomized trials show benefit for remdesivir, but not hydroxychloroquine

Dr. Fauci says all the ‘valid’ scientific data shows hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective in treating coronavirus

The World Health Organisation: Studies show hydroxychloroquine does not have clinical benefits in treating COVID-19

WHO says trials show malaria and HIV drugs don't cut Covid-19 hospital deaths

NIH Halts Hydroxychloroquine Study; Says 'Unlikely' To Help COVID-19 Patients

British Heart Foundation: Why hydroxychloroquine isn't a "miracle cure" for coronavirus

Do not use hydroxychloroquine for COVID: National Taskforce (Australia)

Ok so basically when you come down to it southern these links are your proof , your argument yes ?

Mate those links are nothing but political smoke it couldn't be more obvious if they said " Political smoke " . Why do you think they attacked Hydroxychloroquine the way they did ? Is it because they were afraid it was going to hurt patients ? Or is it because they were afraid it works ?

Take 10 Asprin and your a dead man , take 10 hydroxychloroquine and ... nothing maybe an upset stomach .

you dont attack attack attack something because it poses no threat , you attack attack attack something because it poses a massive threat to the agenda.

Honestly mate I ask in all seriousness are you incapable of critical thinking ?

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Ok so basically when you come down to it southern these links are your proof

Yes, those links above from Dr Birx, Dr Fauci, the NIH the Australian COVID19 taskforce, the WHO etc etc, all of those are my sources.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: puzzled2

You don't do that after the fact.

You're in the wrong here puzzled.

Fauc i: Henry Ford Health's hydroxychloroquine study 'flawed'

Dr. Anthony Fauci told federal lawmakers Friday that a study by Henry Ford Health System that showed hydroxychloroquine was effective in lowering the death rate among COVID-19 patients was "flawed."

Health officials should instead rely on the "gold standard" of a randomized, placebo controlled study to determine whether the drug is effective, Fauci told the U.S. House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis.

"The Henry Ford Hospital study that was published was a non-controlled retrospective cohort study that was confounded by a number of issues, including the fact that many people who were receiving hydroxychloroquine were also using corticosteroids, which we know from another study gives a clear benefit in reducing deaths with advanced disease," said Fauci, the nation's leading infectious disease expert advising the White House on the coronavirus response.

And you're out of depth.

Southern no one cares what Anthony Fauci says his word means nothing , every thing he says is bias he is in this to make MONEY not save lives .

The man sits on a board that holds patents to Corona Virus and anything to do with corona virus including Vaccines , testing kits and methods and any new medicines developed specifically to treat corona virus ?

He does not care about saving lives , He cares about making money.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Ok so basically when you come down to it southern these links are your proof

Yes, those links above from Dr Birx, Dr Fauci, the NIH the Australian COVID19 taskforce, the WHO etc etc, all of those are my sources.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

You have a lovely way of picking one sentence and ignoring all the rest , try responding to the whole thing eh ?

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Southern no one cares what Anthony Fauci says his word means nothing

To you and a few on the fringe, probably.

Fauci Leads Trump by 26% in Coronavirus Response Rating: Poll

Dr. Anthony Fauci first-pitch baseball card breaks Topps record for sales in just 24 hours

Anthony Stephen Fauci (born December 24, 1940) is an American physician and immunologist who has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) since 1984. Since January 2020, he has been one of the lead members of the Trump administration's White House Coronavirus Task Force addressing the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States. Fauci is one of the world's leading experts on infectious diseases, and during the early stages of the pandemic The New Yorker and The New York Times described Fauci as one of the most trusted medical figures in the United States.

As a physician with the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Fauci has served American public health in various capacities for over 50 years, and has been an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan.

source

Maybe nobody cares about what you have to say beyond these forum walls? Maybe your views are irrelevant at the end of it all?

Maybe that's all true.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

dip# you not even in the game -- The treatment plan was laid out Just like a RCT then after all the data was in they analysed it.

Patients treated with hydroxychloroquine at Henry Ford met specific protocol criteria as outlined by the hospital system’s Division of Infectious Diseases.

As the author says.

The most well-accepted and definitive method to determine the efficacy of a treatment is a double-blind, randomized clinical trial. However, this type of study takes a long time to design, execute and analyze.

But during a pandemic you do what to save lives? Talk to other Doctors - Chinese doctors told European doctors who told the Ford group.

Therefore, a whole scientific field exists in which scientists examine how a drug is working in the real world to get as best an answer as they can as soon as possible. These types of studies can be done much more rapidly with data that is already available, usually from medical records.

STILL SCIENCE, STILL VALID RESEARCH.


-- You have a Gold standard RCT study done on HCQ -- you supplied the link .

Why don't you want to talk about it?
Why do none of you links refer to actual studies?