The Job Numbers: Can we unite and conclude that President Obama/Trump created a strong economy

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: walkinghomer

Investing.com -- A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions.

The study shows that the jobs were temporary, contract positions, or part-time "gig" jobs in a variety of fields.

Female workers suffered most heavily in this economy, as work in traditionally feminine fields, like education and medicine, declined during the era.

www.investing.com...


I wish people would learn how to use search engines, it would save so much time.

You're kidding right? I actually expected better from you as a seasoned ATS poster. Did you even bother to do some research to find out that both Alan Krueger and Larry Katz walked back their claims that you referred to.

Economists walk back study that showed huge increase

two of the most well-known economists—Alan Krueger of Princeton University and Lawrence Katz of Harvard—now say their influential 2015 study was wrong, as the Wall Street Journal reported. What threw them off was inadequate data and the recession.

The Gig Economy Never Really Happened

Here's an article from CNN that breaks down the types of Jobs under Obama. I know CNN is not the best source for most on ATS but lets focus on the facts and not the person delivering the facts. If the facts are wrong, we can always debate those.






How good were the 10.9 million jobs under Obama?

originally posted by: walkinghomer
All I've seen from the majority of posters is the following

1. The numbers are fake but somehow became real January 2017 when President Trump took office
2. Those are Part-Time jobs with no facts to show this and apparently January 2017 they all became Full time Job
3. Those were bad jobs that nobody wanted but started January 2017 they became solid good jobs

They were both responsible for creating the economy with the bulk of the credit going to President Obama.

Ummm... no...

Two metrics your 'numbers' don't provide that is the reason for your cognitive dissonance...

What kinds of jobs are behind those 'unemployment' numbers... as others have already pointed out, they were almost all low skilled part time minimum wage jobs.

What is one way to tell using pure logic and reason?

Another set of numbers - the numbers reflecting the number of people on welfare/food stamps etc...

Those numbers went way way up under Obama, and way way down under Trump. You can't get those benefits with the higher paying jobs. Therefore, the jobs created under Trump were much better quality full time higher paying jobs - meaning, real jobs.

Another analogy I think of is Obama inherited a busted up car that wasn't working. He fixed up the car, changed the engine, alternator, transmission, fluids and got the car running. It was running at a steady pace for 4 years then President Obama got out and President Trump got in. President Trump also change some other components in the car and maintained it. Its a team work (Sorry for the bad car analogy)

It wasn't bad - just wrong...

a reply to: walkinghomer

Oh good, you do know how to Google.

*claps*

So give Obama credit for Trumps economy.

*shakes head*

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: xuenchen
Obama could have got the UR down to 2.5% but didn't 🎃

If Obama could have gotten the UR down to 2.5%, why didn't Trump (before the Coronavirus hit)?

Resistance from opposing forces that were set in place after Trump won the election.

Like a "scorched Earth" kinda thing. 🎃

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: walkinghomer

Exactly what policies of Obama's do you believe encouraged job creation?

That's a fair question but if you put policies aside for a second. The numbers are about the same. The core of my post was the numbers. I don't want to stray too far away from the core as it will roll into a completely different topic. To answer your question though the one that comes to mind is the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA)

In 2010 the country was coming out of recession. Things naturally speed up under such circumstances. Growing or continuing growth beyond expectations is a whole other ball game.
Obama's policy RESTRICTED growth and limited possibilities for small business especially AND within certain industries. Obama had zero clue about how to stimulate manufacturing, for example. We know that because HE said so.

Overall, the average growth rate of the economy under Obama's 8 years is about the same as under Trump's 3 years--in the mid 2 to 3% area. Neither Obama nor Trump worked any particular magic on GDP.

Unemployment peaked at about 10% during Obama's first year in office due to the financial crash that occurred under George Bush and was about at 4.5% by the end of his term. It declined slowly but steadily during his term. Under Trump, it had declined from 4.5% to about 3.5% just before the Coronavirus hit. The rate of decline has been very steady from 2010 through 2019. Neither Obama nor Trump worked any particular magic on unemployment.

Trump also seems to be clueless about how to stimulate manufacturing. According to data from the Federal Reserve, US manufacturing output during 2019 was down by about 1.3% even though the GDP grew by about 2.3%. There were several reasons for that, but one of them was Trump's trade wars, you know--the ones that are "good" and "easy to win".

Neither Obama nor Trump worked any particular magic on the economy, in general. On the average, the President just doesn't have much effect on long term economic trends.

This is an important point. This is one of many threads on here arguing if this is this Trump or Obama economy and ignores that they are one and the same.

If you remove the economic downturn at the start of Obama's presidency and the current covid situation then by almost any economic measures you choose the economies performance is virtually identical under both.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: walkinghomer

Oh good, you do know how to Google.

*claps*

So give Obama credit for Trumps economy.

*shakes head*

You're totally missing the point. I'm saying either both of them had nothing to do with the great economy we had or they both played a part in the economy. The only way I would give President Trump full credit is if somehow he created a time machine and went back to 2008, kidnapped Candidate Obama, use some futuristic technology to look like Obama, won the election, stopped the bleeding from the recession, started the downward trend of unemployment(including African American), released Obama and traveled back to 2016 to whoop Hillary's ass.

Why does ATS have to be its my side or nothing. Isn't it possible that both had a positive impact on the economy. Is this what's wrong with ATS? The Divisiveness when when facts are right in front of us..

Obama injected Trillions in stimulus handouts, that tends to temporarily improve an economy artificially but when the money runs out, so do the numbers. Trump managed to begin to fix the economy from the inside, not just pump money into it.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

If you remove the economic downturn at the start of Obama's presidency and the current covid situation then by almost any economic measures you choose the economies performance is virtually identical under both.

Thank you! I would be ok with accepting this

originally posted by: panoz77
Obama injected Trillions in stimulus handouts, that tends to temporarily improve an economy artificially but when the money runs out, so do the numbers. Trump managed to begin to fix the economy from the inside, not just pump money into it.

Have you seen the deficit figures under Trump?

originally posted by: panoz77
Obama injected Trillions in stimulus handouts, that tends to temporarily improve an economy artificially but when the money runs out, so do the numbers. Trump managed to begin to fix the economy from the inside, not just pump money into it.

Can you show me the boost in Job growth as a result of Presidents Trump "trillions in stimulus handouts"

a reply to: walkinghomer

I'm not going to give Obama an ounce of credit for current economic conditions.

You can, help yourself.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

*shrugs*

originally posted by: walkinghomer

1. I didn't include Obama first term as he felt it inherited a recession

You need to understand that many Presidents walked into a recession and the typical time to correct it is less than their first 18 months in office. Where Obama failed was he hardly got started "fixing" by his 5th YEAR! 2008 through 2014 were not good years for a very large percentage of Americans. Many middle class went quickly into poor due to losing their good paying jobs and then working minimum wage jobs as that was all that was out there, so the real numbers were the under employment percentages. Cost of living sky rocked too, I remember meat jump like 30% to 40% in price almost over night as did gas prices as just two examples. Obama had little focus on the private sector and loved to just produce civil servant type positions that did nothing but eat more tax money.

Trump took the mess Obama floundered with for 8 years and really cleaned it up to get the numbers never seen before. He also corrected the underemployment that was really the silent killer Americans were experiencing under Obama. Trump's goal is to create quality private sector jobs, true living wage jobs and not just artificially propping up low skill jobs with higher pay...pay that is still crappy.. So Obama thought progression was forcing a job that is only worth 9 bucks an hour to 15 bucks an hour...guess what...15 still sucks, so you need good skilled jobs that are actually worth paying 30+ per hour and that all is the true fundamental differences between Obama and Trump and why Obama failed and Trump is successful.

originally posted by: walkinghomer

Can you show me the boost in Job growth as a result of Presidents Trump "trillions in stimulus handouts"

What stimulus handout did Trump create? Trump didn't need it...Obama's 1 trillion was spent so poorly that we saw nothing of it. It went POOF like a magic trick. He dumped huge amounts of it into "Green" companies that didn't even last through his Presidency.

How stupid Obama was as example, Solyndra got over 500 million alone and didn't last two years past getting that, so where Obama failed is he dumped all this money into green energy in direct conflict with China, BUT failed to deal with China to protect that industry, so China just gave the middle finger and subsidized its own industry and waited two years for Obama's golden companies to go bankrupt.

I wonder if Obama was hard on China back then as Trump is today if things would have been different.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: walkinghomer

Can you show me the boost in Job growth as a result of Presidents Trump "trillions in stimulus handouts"

What stimulus handout did Trump create? Trump didn't need it...Obama's 1 trillion was spent so poorly that we saw nothing of it. It went POOF like a magic trick. He dumped huge amounts of it into "Green" companies that didn't even last through his Presidency.

How stupid Obama was as example, Solyndra got over 500 million alone and didn't last two years past getting that, so where Obama failed is he dumped all this money into green energy in direct conflict with China, BUT failed to deal with China to protect that industry, so China just gave the middle finger and subsidized its own industry and waited two years for Obama's golden companies to go bankrupt.

I wonder if Obama was hard on China back then as Trump is today if things would have been different.

Obama, Obama, Obama. I get it, he did nothing right. Please show me the spike as a result of President Trump's tax cut.


After 2 Years, Trump Tax Cuts Have Failed To Deliver On GOP's Promises

When you compare the last three years of Obama’s Presidency vs. Trump’s first three years, Trump’s deficits will be almost $1 trillion greater at $2.47 trillion to $1.51 trillion for Obama. It doesn’t look like Trump’s tax cuts will pay for themselves.

In fact, more than 60% of the tax savings went to people in the top 20% of the income ladder, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The measure also slashed the corporate tax rate by 40%.

originally posted by: walkinghomer

Obama, Obama, Obama. I get it, he did nothing right. Please show me the spike as a result of President Trump's tax cut.

You are the one talking stimulus packages, so Obama's isn't one we should talk about? I don't get it... I talked about Obama's stimulus failure, so do you disagree? What did you get from it... Most likely the same as me...nothing...

After 2 Years, Trump Tax Cuts Have Failed To Deliver On GOP's Promises

I think to get a tax cut you actually need to pay taxes first. If you pay little then your tax cut is little, make sense? I got about a 6k cut off my taxes, AND got child tax credit I haven't seen in 10 years. I guess Pelosi sees that as peanuts, but kind of big to me...

When you compare the last three years of Obama’s Presidency vs. Trump’s first three years, Trump’s deficits will be almost $1 trillion greater at $2.47 trillion to $1.51 trillion for Obama. It doesn’t look like Trump’s tax cuts will pay for themselves.

OK and why was that....lol what was Trump spending on... Not failed green companies... geez

In fact, more than 60% of the tax savings went to people in the top 20% of the income ladder, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The measure also slashed the corporate tax rate by 40%.

As it should, don't be ignorant... America has the highest corporate rates in the WORLD... Add in the bureaucracy the liberals love (go try and open a new company in Chicago as example...oh good luck) and corporations just leave and go to places like Ireland. Why is it more profitable to make things in China on the other side of the planet too?

As to tax savings, as I said you need to actually pay taxes to get savings....

Bottom 50% income pay less than 4% of individual taxes... not a lot to save there
Bottom 90% pay about 30% of individual taxes...
91 to 99 pay another 30% of individual taxes...
Top 1% pay 37% of individual taxes....

So here is your math question for the day...who above would see the most tax breaks? (I'm not saying tax credits, but savings off of taxes you already paid)

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: walkinghomer

Can you show me the boost in Job growth as a result of Presidents Trump "trillions in stimulus handouts"

What stimulus handout did Trump create? Trump didn't need it...Obama's 1 trillion was spent so poorly that we saw nothing of it. It went POOF like a magic trick. He dumped huge amounts of it into "Green" companies that didn't even last through his Presidency.

How stupid Obama was as example, Solyndra got over 500 million alone and didn't last two years past getting that, so where Obama failed is he dumped all this money into green energy in direct conflict with China, BUT failed to deal with China to protect that industry, so China just gave the middle finger and subsidized its own industry and waited two years for Obama's golden companies to go bankrupt.

I wonder if Obama was hard on China back then as Trump is today if things would have been different.

Obama, Obama, Obama. I get it, he did nothing right. Please show me the spike as a result of President Trump's tax cut.


After 2 Years, Trump Tax Cuts Have Failed To Deliver On GOP's Promises

When you compare the last three years of Obama’s Presidency vs. Trump’s first three years, Trump’s deficits will be almost $1 trillion greater at $2.47 trillion to $1.51 trillion for Obama. It doesn’t look like Trump’s tax cuts will pay for themselves.

In fact, more than 60% of the tax savings went to people in the top 20% of the income ladder, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The measure also slashed the corporate tax rate by 40%.

Of course the top 20% get most of the tax savings, they are they ones paying the taxes. You can't get a tax cut if you aren't paying taxes! LOL.

Trump ushered a new sense of optimism.

Businesses were reluctant to invest under Obama due to the regulatory regime. Obamacare. Dodd-Frank. CFPB.

The one thing business does not like is uncertainty. Obama created a lot of uncertainty which hampered the recovery.

Agreeing with this would mean conceding to the enemy!!! Not an inch!!! Lol

Jk, No problem saying the economy improved under both presidencies by the numbers. How much it improved and for whom is certainly a relevant question too though.

a reply to: walkinghomer

Obama was a terrible President.

The worst of the worst.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Don't forget "cash for clunkers".

He took and destroyed some really great cars to forced people to take out car loans.