The Job Numbers: Can we unite and conclude that President Obama/Trump created a strong economy

a reply to: MiddleInsite

Clinton didn't fix anything. He benefited from the largest creation of new real estate since the discovery of the New World with the internet. As well as benefiting from the void left when the USSR collapsed. You can tell he was making hay in that regard...we were mired in Kosovo.

Were it not for the internet, im not thinking his enormous economy would have been what it was. Add in the collapse of the USSR, and the 90's should have been a decade where the common man saw enormous gains as well. Yet under Clinton (like all the others) we saw wages stagnate while extreme wealth poured in.

At least under Reagan we got a promise of some trickle down.

originally posted by: walkinghomer
..., I believe a large amount should be given to President Obama as well. Every time I hear someone praise President Trump solely for the low numbers it drives me crazy because I can't see what they're seeing. I collected some numbers from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics and can only conclude the following

1. At the start of President Obama second term unemployment was at 7.9% and at the end of his presidency it was 4.7%. That is a drop of 3.2%
2. At the start of President Trump first term unemployment was at 4.8% and at the end of December 2019 it was at 3.5%. That is a drop of 1.3%
3. The last 3 years of President Obama presidency he created a total of 7,517,000
4. The first 3 years of President Trump presidency he created a total of 6,366,000

First of all people like yourself seem to forget how bad the job market got under Obama because of ACA/Obamacare, and other regulations and taxes he implemented.

Do you forget the fact that most companies could not afford ACA, and had to lower the work hours they gave to their workers?... Millions of Americans literally woke up to find themselves in PART-TIME JOBS which were full time jobs before ACA/Obamacare. Many people lost over-time as many companies could not afford it either because of ACA/Obamacare.

What was Obama's response to this? To lower the work week from 40 hours a week to 30 hours a week. Suddenly not only did the jobs that were part time because of ACA/Obamacare, but the jobs that were part-time before ACA, became full time jobs.

Obama job creation was simply an illusion for the most part.

Obama closed all mines, and manufacturing that came with it.
Obama closed out of over 4,000 oil rigs in the U.S. down to just about 300 of them.
Obama implemented a tax on truckers, and other regulations, which many truckers couldn't afford. Many truckers had to stop working as a trucker and had to find other jobs. When Obama saw how many truckers were literally unable to hold their jobs because of his regulations and taxes he implemented a BRIBE that truckers could pay, and that bribe would allow truckers to not have to pay for the tax for "climate change" Obama imposed on truckers...

Obama-era truck regulations mean layoffs for these companies asking Trump for relief

People like you seem to forget how under Obama hundreds of thousands of jobs were being lost month after month for a very long time.

This is funny.

Economy tanks, it's Trumps fault.

Economy improves, it's because Obama.

These claims are more predictable than my bathroom visits after drinking prune juice and green tea.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
The numbers are misleading. Under obama we lost good paying full time jobs and replaced them with low paying part time or full time jobs. At the end of the obama administration there were more people underemployed and at or below the poverty line than ever before in this country. So yes, obama created a lot of low paying jobs. But only after losing just as many high paying jobs. And no one can debate the numbers for african-americans, unemployment has never been lower than it is now under Trump.

You beat me to it... this is the answer the OP is looking for.

The economy has changed from
decent paying, secure work, decent benefits, Into insecure jobs, low pay, next to no benefits.
I don't think that is very impressive.

Do presidents really have that much control over the economy? Whether it does good or bad, how much do they actually control?

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: walkinghomer

Exactly what policies of Obama's do you believe encouraged job creation?

That's a fair question but if you put policies aside for a second. The numbers are about the same. The core of my post was the numbers. I don't want to stray too far away from the core as it will roll into a completely different topic. To answer your question though the one that comes to mind is the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA)

In 2010 the country was coming out of recession. Things naturally speed up under such circumstances. Growing or continuing growth beyond expectations is a whole other ball game.
Obama's policy RESTRICTED growth and limited possibilities for small business especially AND within certain industries. Obama had zero clue about how to stimulate manufacturing, for example. We know that because HE said so.

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
The numbers are misleading. Under obama we lost good paying full time jobs and replaced them with low paying part time or full time jobs. At the end of the obama administration there were more people underemployed and at or below the poverty line than ever before in this country. So yes, obama created a lot of low paying jobs. But only after losing just as many high paying jobs. And no one can debate the numbers for african-americans, unemployment has never been lower than it is now under Trump.

Firstly: Please provide some credible source to back this up. I'm assuming starting January 2017 all the jobs became good high paying jobs?

Secondly: The African American unemployment trend was going down under President Obama and falls into the same category. He started it and it continued under President Trump
Unemployment Rate - 20 Yrs. & Over
Unemployment rate of African Americans in the United States from 1990 to 2019

There are tons of sources out there, this is common knowledge.

No, not ALL the jobs were high paying, but bringing manufacturing back to the US helped bring many high paying jobs back. We still have a way to go but under obama we were losing manufacturing jobs, under Trump we are getting them back.

Yes, under obama the number of unemployed blacks was dropping - who do you think was getting a good portion of those low paying part time jobs obama created? I never said the number was not dropping under obama (after it rose under obama). I said it hit record lows under Trump.

Obama could have got the UR down to 2.5% but didn't 🎃

originally posted by: MiddleInsite
Obama inherited an economy that was collapsing. One million jobs lost the month before he took office. Trump inherited an economy on the rise for some time. Typical, since it happened with Reagan/Bush screwing up the economy, and Clinton fixed it. Then it happened again with George Bush, and Obama had to clean it up. And once again, Biden will have to clean up Trump's mess. See a pattern. I do. You can say all you want, but Republicans spend a lot of money that they put on credit, and then make Democrats pay for it.

Most of us in the real world industry know that you’re full of crap.
You are blinded by left right politics.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
This is funny.

Economy tanks, it's Trumps fault.

Economy improves, it's because Obama.

These claims are more predictable than my bathroom visits after drinking prune juice and green tea.

Please show me where in my OP I blamed President Trump for the current economy. I clearly said he shouldn't be blamed based on Covid-19 and I did not use those statistics.

All I've seen from the majority of posters is the following

1. The numbers are fake but somehow became real January 2017 when President Trump took office
2. Those are Part-Time jobs with no facts to show this and apparently January 2017 they all became Full time Job
3. Those were bad jobs that nobody wanted but started January 2017 they became solid good jobs

They were both responsible for creating the economy with the bulk of the credit going to President Obama. Another analogy I think of is Obama inherited a busted up car that wasn't working. He fixed up the car, changed the engine, alternator, transmission, fluids and got the car running. It was running at a steady pace for 4 years then President Obama got out and President Trump got in. President Trump also change some other components in the car and maintained it. Its a team work (Sorry for the bad car analogy)

originally posted by: blueman12
Do presidents really have that much control over the economy? Whether it does good or bad, how much do they actually control?

This is a good point that I've heard others say.

a reply to: walkinghomer

Obama is responsible for creating low paying jobs so they could have a foundation to raise minimum wages.

Trump is responsible for creating higher paying jobs.

You're comparing apples to oranges and giving credit where it isn't due.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Yes, under obama the number of unemployed blacks was dropping - who do you think was getting a good portion of those low paying part time jobs obama created? I never said the number was not dropping under obama (after it rose under obama). I said it hit record lows under Trump.

Are you saying President Obama caused Black unemployment to increase and not the recession he inherited from President Bush?

My point was and still is, if President Obama kicked that unemployment ball (Which included black unemployment) down the hill and it kept going down then he's responsible or partially responsible for the record lows that President Trump inherited.

I would also be ok with not giving credit to President Obama or President Trump but you cannot say President Obama had nothing to do with it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: walkinghomer

Obama is responsible for creating low paying jobs so they could have a foundation to raise minimum wages.

Trump is responsible for creating higher paying jobs.

You're comparing apples to oranges and giving credit where it isn't due.

Would be nice to see some of those statistics of those bad low paying Jobs Obama created and those good high paying Jobs created. The bottom line is Jobs were created and people were working

a reply to: walkinghomer

Investing.com -- A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions.

The study shows that the jobs were temporary, contract positions, or part-time "gig" jobs in a variety of fields.

Female workers suffered most heavily in this economy, as work in traditionally feminine fields, like education and medicine, declined during the era.

www.investing.com...


I wish people would learn how to use search engines, it would save so much time.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: walkinghomer

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: walkinghomer

Exactly what policies of Obama's do you believe encouraged job creation?

That's a fair question but if you put policies aside for a second. The numbers are about the same. The core of my post was the numbers. I don't want to stray too far away from the core as it will roll into a completely different topic. To answer your question though the one that comes to mind is the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA)

In 2010 the country was coming out of recession. Things naturally speed up under such circumstances. Growing or continuing growth beyond expectations is a whole other ball game.
Obama's policy RESTRICTED growth and limited possibilities for small business especially AND within certain industries. Obama had zero clue about how to stimulate manufacturing, for example. We know that because HE said so.

Overall, the average growth rate of the economy under Obama's 8 years is about the same as under Trump's 3 years--in the mid 2 to 3% area. Neither Obama nor Trump worked any particular magic on GDP.

Unemployment peaked at about 10% during Obama's first year in office due to the financial crash that occurred under George Bush and was about at 4.5% by the end of his term. It declined slowly but steadily during his term. Under Trump, it had declined from 4.5% to about 3.5% just before the Coronavirus hit. The rate of decline has been very steady from 2010 through 2019. Neither Obama nor Trump worked any particular magic on unemployment.

Trump also seems to be clueless about how to stimulate manufacturing. According to data from the Federal Reserve, US manufacturing output during 2019 was down by about 1.3% even though the GDP grew by about 2.3%. There were several reasons for that, but one of them was Trump's trade wars, you know--the ones that are "good" and "easy to win".

Neither Obama nor Trump worked any particular magic on the economy, in general. On the average, the President just doesn't have much effect on long term economic trends.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Obama could have got the UR down to 2.5% but didn't 🎃

If Obama could have gotten the UR down to 2.5%, why didn't Trump (before the Coronavirus hit)?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: walkinghomer

Investing.com -- A new study by economists from Harvard and Princeton indicates that 94% of the 10 million new jobs created during the Obama era were temporary positions.

The study shows that the jobs were temporary, contract positions, or part-time "gig" jobs in a variety of fields.

Female workers suffered most heavily in this economy, as work in traditionally feminine fields, like education and medicine, declined during the era.

www.investing.com...


I wish people would learn how to use search engines, it would save so much time.

This is why I said earlier that not all jobs are created equal.
Businesses were just trying to hold on and get through Obama’s administration.
His policies, not democrat policies because Clinton was fairly decent, were a disaster for small businesses.

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: xuenchen
Obama could have got the UR down to 2.5% but didn't 🎃

If Obama could have gotten the UR down to 2.5%, why didn't Trump (before the Coronavirus hit)?

I doubt it’s possible to get and stay under 3%.
Businesses fail, people get fired, some just don’t want to work.
3 to 4 percent is where it belongs.