Herman Cain Hospitalized With COVID-19 Days After Attending Trump’s Tulsa Rally

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Just like they will list people that died "with positive test results in the same group of people that die because of COVID.

I've seen that claim made many times.

Someone decapitated in a car wreck will be listed with a cause of death of COVID-19. Sure.

a reply to: Phage

"appears" data should be taken on face value which means it has no actual definition (it doesnt say its because of or otherwise) its not useful for either side of the arguement.

a reply to: latic

data should be taken on face value

On face value the data represents those who are hospitalized because of COVID-19

TMC Daily New Covid-19 Hospitalizations

Not "TMC Daily New Hospitalizations of COVID-19 positive patients"

The two graphs are showing different subsets of the data.

a reply to: Phage

If you have heard this claim made before, then I am sure you have found more realistic and reliable sources and examples than the one you chose.

There is tons of data out there. Most of it I will admit is difficult to wade through, because all the deception and partial truths have most of us lacking trust in anything anyone says anymore.

Each will choose the information they want to believe, and nothing anyone else says is going to make much difference.

a reply to: Phage

That 100% isnt what it says.

In fact looking at:
www.tmc.edu...

6/22 - 6/28 = 1598


From your graph:
www.tmc.edu...

6/22 = 169
6/23 = 242
6/24 = 257
6/25 = 291
6/26 = 283
6/27 = 234
6/28 = 286

Total: 1762

Difference is 164.

Using graph:
www.tmc.edu...

It shows between 1088 (6/22) and 1545 (6/28) are covid positive during the time period.

So on that basis more people (from your graph) were submitted to hospital because of Covid (and you are saying these are people being sick because of covid) than were diagnosed as being covid positive.

I think I've just shown you why I said "appears" should be discarded.

a reply to: latic

It shows between 1088 (6/22) and 1545 (6/28) are covid positive during the time period.

You are comparing daily numbers of new COVID hospitalizations to daily numbers of total COVID positive patients in the hospital. Two differences:
1) COVID positive patients vs. COVID patients.
2) Daily admissions vs. total patients in hospital.

Very much apples and oranges.

People who recover are released from the hospital. So are those who die. Both have been in hospital varying amounts of time, some for many weeks. There is no way two correlate the two subsets (daily, and total) based on the graphs provided.

Face value:

TMC Daily New Covid-19 Hospitalizations

Not "TMC Daily New Hospitalizations of COVID-19 positive patients"

reply to: Phage
Phage come on you are better than that.

Your "smoking gun" is:
www.tmc.edu...
"TMC Daily New Covid-19 Hospitalizations"

I've compared this to:
www.tmc.edu...
"Average daily New Covid-19 Positive Cases By Week (Monday-Sunday)"

And then provided:
www.tmc.edu...
"Total TMC Covid-19 Positive Patients (ICU & Med Surg) In Hospital"

Notice how the information for the positive cases matches the data for new hospitalizations? There is a difference of 164.

Are you saying that there have only been 164 people admitted to hospital "not because of covid" who have Covid for an entire week?

Keep in mind the bed usage just for ICU (
www.tmc.edu... )

Also if you believe only 164 people were admitted to hospital "not because of covid" with Covid how does that play with you using your graph to show infections are ramping up?

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Gonna just jump in here

...Tulsa rally? Mind you some social distancing was enforced...

So, I had an impression that some sources say that signs that instructed people to "skip seats" to stay distanced were removed. I watch all sides.

Also, several secret-service and roadie guys had issues.

a reply to: latic

I've compared this to: www.tmc.edu... "Average daily New Covid-19 Positive Cases By Week (Monday-Sunday)"

Face value

Average daily New Covid-19 Positive Cases By Week (Monday-Sunday)

This means that there were a total of about 11,186 new positives that week.

1598 * 7 = 11,186

Right?

a reply to: Phage

Because wearing a mask is too inconvenient. Because I want to be elbow to elbow drinking in a bar and it's my right.

Right?

That mentality
makes things worse. I don't know why people can't understand. It's just basic hygiene and self-preservation.

le sigh

reply to: Phage

Good Catch.

To confirm, because I've been looking further at the graphs are saw more information.

Your opinion is that www.tmc.edu... is for the hospitals within TMC and are people "because of covid".

www.tmc.edu... is for the hospitals within TMC and are people "positive of covid"?

# daily average new cases in greater houston area shows "Austin, Brazoria, Fort Bend, Galveston, Harris, Liberty, Montgomery and Waller" where as the source for "because of" (tmc-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations) is a TMC clinical cencus.

Based on www.click2houston.com... the numbers across the two would seem that the daily average is being taken across all the counties of people who are Covid Positive, both with antibodies and currently ill (www.dshs.texas.gov...).

Where as the item you are saying is "because of covid" hospitilization is likely those in hospital who are known to have covid. Looking at the side of the graph it states:

Monitoring Threshold:
Threshold is exceeded by the occurrence of a positive daily growth rate, averaged over 7 days

Current Status:
3.6% daily growth rate (averaged over 7 days) in the COVID-19 daily hospital admissions trend.

Would this suggest this is people positive while being hospitized, rather than hospitalized because COVID-19?

a reply to: latic

Good Catch.

Nice miss. "Face value", and stuff.

Would this suggest this is people positive while being hospitized, rather than hospitalized because COVID-19?

No. On face value it says that there is a 7 day growth trend of 3.6% in hospitalizations because of COVID.

Note that the other graphs explicitly state "COVID Positive" when it applies.

TMC Daily New Covid-19 Hospitalizations

Not "TMC Daily New Hospitalizations of COVID Positive Patients."

a reply to: Phage

Never upset if I have to look at something a different way.

I still would love to know your source on it being "because of" rather than "with".

Even trying to match up the data with:
app.powerbi.com... iOjN9

Doesnt match up.

When you look at deaths from TMC they are specifically stating "COVID related deaths" which to me would suggests deaths with covid, vs direct cause.

The worst thing here is if "because of" actually equals "with", because that doesn't help anyone.

a reply to: latic

I still would love to know your source on it being "because of" rather than "with".

1) The title of the chart.

TMC Daily New Covid-19 Hospitalizations

2) The fact that there are fewer Covid-19 Hospitalizations than Covid-19 positive hospitalizations. About 10% fewer.

Doesnt match up.

Yes. The numbers from the Texas Department of Health are higher than those from TMC. On face value I would say it's because TMC only includes data from its hospitals and the Texas agency includes others.

When you look at deaths from TMC they are specifically stating "COVID related deaths" which to me would suggests deaths with covid, vs direct cause.

So, if a person is decapitated in a car wreck after having tested positive, that would be included as COVID related, for example?

a reply to: Phage

Do you have the stats / graph for point 2?

a reply to: latic


I gave them to you previously.

8,500 Covid Hospitalizations
9,447 Covid Positive patients

8500/9447 = 0.9

a reply to: Xtrozero

It is meaningless because we want the population to develop heard immunity

Can you show us any research that proves non vaccine related heard immunity can happen in humans?

a reply to: scraedtosleep

Herd.

Herd immunity can be attained through natural immunity. But it is not a fast process nor are the results guaranteed. It requires that a certain percentage of a population have immunity (natural or via vaccination). That percentage depends upon the transmissibility of the disease. Measles, for example, is highly transmissible and requires that 90-95% of the population has immunity. That level doesn't seem to occur naturally very much.

COVID-19 seems to be quite highly transmissible, though not as much so as measles. The level of population immunity required is not known.


Ask Sweden how it's working out for them.
www.bloomberg.com...

a reply to: Phage

There are also reports that people have come down with COVID more than once. So catching it and getting over it may not give people immunity.

I remember and listened to his radio program. The Democrats hated him. I would voted for him or Allen West. Maybe the first female Prez will be Candace Owens.
So the Progs are whining about this when they approve of the rioters and looters and Chop/Chaz guillotibe Party Park squatters.