Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: Pachomius

Is this a fallacy?

God luck “proving” god. When you can volunteer to help food banks, visit prisons, or help rebuilt communities by working with a group like Samaritan’s Purse. Prove god In endless debate with no resolution. Or go be the hands and feet of God while building the body of God.

Choice is yours.

Dear Neutron:

That is the case of special pleading from you, Neutron, namely: you saying that, "You don’t need “evidence” of god if you have a personal relationship with God."

Personal relationship with God, from your own empty pleading, that is not evidence, the evidence of God could be like you have a nose on your face which is not going to fall off uncertainly, that is evidence: because God is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning, that is why your nose and my nose and everyone's nose don't fall off our face uncertainly, on account of God being in charge, that is why - and that is the evidence, nose not falling off our face uncertainly, the evidence for God existing.




[ quote]originally posted by: neutronflux
[ quote]originally posted by: Pachomius
[ quote]originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

You don’t need “evidence” of god if you have a personal relationship with God.

Man you just don’t get it.

[ /quote]


Aha! Dear Neutron, you are into the fallacy of special pleading.

.[ /quote]

By all means, quote a fallacy of mine from from this thread.

[ /quote]

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originally posted by: Pachomius
Dear Neutron:

That is the case of special pleading from you, Neutron, namely: you saying that, "You don’t need “evidence” of god if you have a personal relationship with God."

Personal relationship with God, from your own empty pleading, that is not evidence, the evidence of God could be like you have a nose on your face which is not going to fall off uncertainly, that is evidence: because God is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning, that is why your nose and my nose and everyone's nose don't fall off our face uncertainly, on account of God being in charge, that is why - and that is the evidence, nose not falling off our face uncertainly, the evidence for God existing.




[ quote]originally posted by: neutronflux
[ quote]originally posted by: Pachomius
[ quote]originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

You don’t need “evidence” of god if you have a personal relationship with God.

Man you just don’t get it.

[ /quote]


Aha! Dear Neutron, you are into the fallacy of special pleading.

.[ /quote]

By all means, quote a fallacy of mine from from this thread.

[ /quote]

.

The bot or the matrix crashing?

Hahahahahahahaha

People have been addressing this issue and convincing themselves and others one way or another for many thousands of years now. Do you honestly believe you or we have something new to bring to the table?

a reply to: neutronflux
tangible evidence...which the OP is yet to provide not even intellectually.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance
Nor does the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

a reply to: toktaylor

I agree

Nor does spaghetti sauce

a reply to: schuyler

Usually when people ask "where is your God now" is right before they slash you with a machete.

originally posted by: schuyler
People have been addressing this issue and convincing themselves and others one way or another for many thousands of years now. Do you honestly believe you or we have something new to bring to the table?

Dear schuyler, are you referring to the issue God exists or not?

If that is the issue you referring to, and you want people to bring something new to the table?

First, let you and me work as to concur on what if ever is the meaning of 'something new' to the issue God exists or not.


As usual and don't get annoyed, I fear that you will avoid me or insist that there is nothing anyone can bring up at all, and will no longer talk with me.

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Dear everyone, let us all sit back and await with bated breath for schuyler to talk with me further.

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Dear everyone, there is no way man can get everyone to work out an issue, unless they first concur on what is the issue to resolve.

My thread here has to do with the issue God exists or not, and already there are posters here who don't want to at all concur everyone together on the concept of God, that is God with the G in upper case.

You see, my experiences with trying to talk with atheists, is that they are scared to death when they already feel that they cannot anymore oppose me on the issue God exists or not, because I point out to them that facts, truths, evidence, logic, goodness of mankind, and the history of ideas definitely prove that God exists, God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

So they flee from me, and the powers that be in forums they close down my threads which have to do with the issue God exists or not, because these powers fear also to have to come to agreement with me that God exists, on evidence from facts, truths, goodness, evidence, logic, and the history of ideas.

Fear of raw reality is what keeps people from facing the existence of God, God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

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Sometimes it's like the existence of the universe proves God doesn't exist.

a reply to: Pachomius

See you got your bot working again.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
Sometimes it's like the existence of the universe proves God doesn't exist.

We have to work as to concur on what is the meaning of the word, universe.


There are peoples who distinguish between the universe as referring only to the material universe, so that such a universe is not the totality of existence, as this material universe according to scientists has a beginning some 13.8 billion years ago.

From my part I always use the term 'totality of existence' or just existence, this concept/word existence then is the most vast domain of what we call reality.

And for myself with thinking on existence, I conclude that there is existence at all time and space and outside time and space, that existence is co-extensive with God, God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

God and existence are co-extensive, but God is the master in charge and in control, and existence is His domain, so that God is the creator cause of everything in existence that is not God - and everything in existence that is not God is made of God as the 'material' of which they are made, and these are the things that change and can go into extinction - when God wills to no longer keep them in reality i.e. in His God's - shall I say: consciousness.

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a reply to: Pachomius

You

Dear everyone, there is no way man can get everyone to work out an issue, unless they first concur on what is the issue to resolve.

If you want atheists to believe.

Either produce tangle evidence.

Or be more spiritual, humble. With a willing attitude to sacrifice self comfort in service to help others by being the hands and feet of God.

Anyway. If your god dose not believe in worship. Is neither the source of good nor evil. Is indifferent. Why would you want an atheist to believe in your god. When it makes no difference to your god if it’s believed in or not?


You made belief in your god a moot point with no evidence that other than a natural process created humankind.

You sort of killed your own thread.

a reply to: neutronflux

It must have been someone who said God doesn't exist and we can 't prove Him. But he's right, we can 't prove it. We don't reason alike. To them this is not creation. The universe is proof God doesn't exist.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: neutronflux

It must have been someone who said God doesn't exist and we can 't prove Him. But he's right, we can 't prove it. We don't reason alike. To them this is not creation. The universe is proof God doesn't exist.

And I live in America, and that is their right.

But you don’t lead people to god through dogmatic religious definitions and circular logic.

Please. Share how you glorify god with self sacrifice that inspires people to ask about you faith.

I don’t think trolling is working for you. Nor glorifying the creator of the universe to inspire people to seek god.

And you haven’t learned a single thing concerning faith.

a reply to: neutronflux

People here don't believe in faith and I was never valued for what I did.

Of course there is liberty of all kinds, but we love to exchange thoughts, and for that purpose we need to at least concur on what we are talking about.


If the topic is on the existence of God in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, we have got to get the concurred on correct information of their concept of God, otherwise we will be acting irrationally talking past each other's head.


Now when people mention the word evidence, it is rational and necessary that we all take the care to work as to concur on what is evidence.


Here is my concept of what is God, with G in upper case, in the monotheistic faiths of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism:

"God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning."


And here is what I define to be evidence:
"Evidence is anything at all existing which leads us to ascertain the existence of another thing, for example, Neutron is the evidence to the existence of his papa and mama.


And as a bonus to all you guys here, I present to you all my first step in the exposition of my proof from evidence on the existence of God:

1. You and I and he she it, we all exist, do you accept that?


Please answer that question, okay? Then we will proceed to my next step, that is the rational systematic procedure in the exposition on the existence of God.

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I really love to exchange thoughts with just one of you guys here in my thread, but we two will also take into account the messages of others here, only we will concentrate our discussion to our own two selves - that will save us a lot of time to attend to everyone here - but of course you everyone can talk all you like on anything at all, even on subjects totally off-topic to this my thread here.

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Dear everyone, here is my exposition proving from evidence the existence of God, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

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1. You and I and he she it, we all exist, do you accept that?

2. You and I and he she it, we came from our parents, do you accept that?

3. Our parents came from their parents, do you accept that?

4. We all humans make up the human race, can you accept that?

5. The human race had a beginning in the universe, can you accept that?

6. Scientists tell us the universe had a beginning some 13.8 billion years ago, can you accept that?

7. There has been the domain of existence prior to the beginning of the universe, can you accept that?

8. In that domain of existence prior to the beginning of the universe, there has got to be an entity, which created or caused the coming to the beginning of the existence of the universe, can you accept that?

9. Evidence is anything existing which leads man to ascertain the existence of another thing, can you accept?

10. Wherefore, man and the universe and everything with a beginning are the evidence to the existence of an entity, which created or caused them to come to existence, can you accept that?

11. And therefore we can call that entity in concept and in name, as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning, can you accept that?

12. If you cannot or will not accept that God exists, are you not then either irrational or dishonestly stubborn against the existence of God?

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Dear everyone, please point out what Number 1 to 12 you have difficulties with, okay?

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a reply to: Pachomius

The assumption that a universe can only be caused by the entity you call god, seems to be a matter of much debate. There doesnt seem to be any form of footprint or any substantial trace of this creature or any other life at all.