Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: pthena

Conditions met, it would seem.

I used even fewer words and my response was also declared unsatisfactory.

a reply to: Phage

Thank you. I didn't find any glaring flaw in my line of reasoning.

Edit to Add:

My concept of the atheist concept of God:

God: (def): Someone else's idea. (3 words)

Please declare what exactly you are up to, I ask everyone to produce a proof from evidence of something they can think up of, of its existence.


Are you into proving from evidence that gods exist, or what, concepts of gods exist - the concepts that is that exist [not gods], or what?


Have you stated what is your concept of god(s)?

Have you stated what is your concept of evidence?


My impression of your post where you have an enumeration of steps, is that you are into a very wishy-washy way of using your brain as to put into words some very uncertain ideas altogether.

Your intention to my observation is to be ready to deny if need be everything that people might imagine that you are into definitively communicating, as the fruits of honest intelligent productive thinking and writing.



Okay, briefly, and make it sharp, what is the point your are making in the enumeration of steps in your some kind of exposition of sorts?

"My concept of the atheist concept of God:

God: (def): Someone else's idea. (3 words)

edit on 9-7-2020 by pthena because: (no reason given)"

From pthena

_____________________



If you ever have to undertake an essay type written examination, with that kind of a concept of god and more similarly drafted phrases, the judges who will decide whether you can think and write at all, they will just give you a failing mark.

a reply to: Pachomius

Okay, briefly, and make it sharp, what is the point your are making in the enumeration of steps in your some kind of exposition of sorts?

People exist. People have different definitions of god(s). That's it.

bonus remark:

A U.S. politician says, at the end of a speech "...and God bless America."
What does that mean? Whatever the audience members think it means.
To some it means, "Oh, s/he is a Christian like me. Oh goody."
To some it means, "So s/he respects the superiority of the Judaic G.d"
To some it means, "Another example of empty pandering!"

Again, this is the list of definitions of evidence.


From TzarChasm
Evidence is a body of facts that support a statement.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

From Pachomius
Evidence is anything at all existing which leads man to know another thing existing.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

From Phage
[Evidence is] something that is not strictly a matter of faith.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Pachomius

If you ever have to undertake an essay type written examination, with that kind of a concept of god and more similarly drafted phrases, the judges who will decide whether you can think and write at all, they will just give you a failing mark.

Probably so.
But I might be a passable story writer.

Check this out: 6 flags and 11 stars.
Why Monotheists Must Fight

PS: you missed my other definition of a personal god.
A personal God is someone who can be spoken to.

Here is the list I am now putting up of concepts or definitions of God:



From Pachomius
God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

From pthena
Someone else's idea.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...




Please everyone, add to the list, so that we can all work together as to arrive at a common mutually agreed on concept or definition of God.

a reply to: Pachomius
All that is.
Just this that is.

The whole complete works.

God is ever present - all seeing and all knowing - all powerful.

There is nothing other.

My concept of God is what I like to call a most minimal definition of God, and that most minimal requirement for an entity to be God, is that He is in concept the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.


As I have said and I say it again, my God or I will say God for me, is to His core a doer God, and not at all any talker God.

What about the attributes of God, namely: omni this and omni that and omni perfection, etc., etc., etc.?


God for me does not need all those attributes by which God becomes so complicated, and that naughty atheists who should know better were they into honest intelligent productive thinking and writing, instead they go into silly nonsense utterance like that: If God is omnipotent, can He make a rock so heavy He Himself cannot carry?

You might dear my opponents here, get this association that God is for me some kind of a generic God, as compared to the branded Gods of folks with a religion.

That is a correct association.

That is why I don't care that God and religion should be connected, for me God and religion are distinctively different, though religion claims to be into propounding the existence of God.

Still religious folks got one thing correct with their teaching that in the beginning God made heaven and earth.


And for humor's sake, I will add to heaven and earth, and hell - hahaha.

a reply to: Pachomius
God is seeing.

Saint Francis stated 'We are looking for what is looking'.

You may believe that you are seeing these words but everything appears within the seeing......including that body and the thoughts and sensations that occur.

All is passing except God.
God is the ever present aware space in which all things appear.

a reply to: Pachomius
God is like the TV screen......no image of apparent separate things can appear without the TV screen being present.

But the screen is overlooked.

The thoughts hypnosis.

a reply to: Pachomius

Again. You cannot define something into existence.

When you going to state a clear theory and provide actual evidence?

You stated your god is a doer? Like to list what was actually done?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Pachomius

Again. You cannot define something into existence.

When you going to state a clear theory and provide actual evidence?

You stated your god is a doer? Like to list what was actually done?

You are trapped here and now, simply witnessing what is occuring here and now.

When waking happens.... that body that appears each morning appears at the exact same instant as the environment........the body is just an appearance (no different than the rest of the entire image that is always present).

What is separate from the present moment???

The belief in you as a separate thing is just an illusion.......and it makes for unnecessary suffering.

Everything is just (as it is).

a reply to: Pachomius

You

and that naughty atheists

Why are atheists naughty? You, yourself said your god is neither good nor evil? So your bringIng religion into this again? Don’t you try to banned “religious” people from this thread? But yet, you have not removed yourself from this thread?

and that naughty atheists who should know better were they into honest intelligent productive thinking and writing,

You, yourself said your god doesn’t require worship. Why bother believing? What is the punishment of an atheist who only believes in the natural process of creation verified by the scientific method, not the intellect behind creation? What makes an atheist naughty. Do you think they should be spanked? Strange?



Why would anyone bother to believe in your god? When your god doesn’t seem to have time for his creation. It’s like your god farted everything into existence, and then left the dimension?

Your gods a crop duster? That’s funny.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Hey.....

We are still at this point in our debate....

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
Who or what can own anything when there is no one?

So now your no one. Those that suffered under slavery are no one. Is that how you justify treating people like property? Because individuals are no one?


But, by all means. Keep on this everyone is no one with the same value as a Ford....

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Itisnowagain

More from Jesus, who you like to quote. And claim is misunderstood?

Sparrows


Matthew 6:25-34 ESV / 298 helpful votes

“Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. ...

Matthew 10:29-31 ESV / 286 helpful votes

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

www.openbible.info...

Is it false to say Jesus proclaimed people have more worth than clothes and sparrows? And Jesus implies people by God are more valued than stuff and animals?

a reply to: neutronflux

There is only God and he is smelling his fart......that is all.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux

There is only God and he is smelling his fart......that is all.

Not everything is the same. Maybe built from the same fundamental laws and building blocks. Perfume is not the same as a deadly nerve agent. A person cannot shine as bright and have the gravity of a yellow star. A virus cannot ponder the works of God like humankind. I am blessed with food while there is famine in the world?

Have you suffered as the slaves of history have suffered? Please do tell?

a reply to: neutronflux
God's fart never smells the same.....it constantly appears (smells) different!!
😄

a reply to: Pachomius

Above Plato's school there was an inscription that read: "Let no one ignorant of geometry enter here." Geometry is the math of form or shape, and the early philosopher's recognized that the reality we observe with our senses can be described by geometry, and so they drew relations between the fundamental nature of geometry and the fundamental nature of reality. There are essentially three views you will find present in the minds of men that can be represented by analogies to geometry.

The Greeks recognized that nothing exist without a foundation or a center, and to represent this they would draw a circle with a point in the center this image was referred to by the Greeks as the monad, and this represented an absolute unity with no distinction and when given priority represents what we might call Monism. After the monad, we have the dyad in which we find the line that had two opposite ends, and thus represented distinction within reality and thus brings us to schools of thought that might be called dualism which unlike duality represents two things at odd, we find this in things like yin and yang or the dualistic views of mind and body. After the dyad, we find the triad which is the first geometric shape to emerge and it connects or harmonizes both distinction and division in a unity that contains plurality. You can see this stuff spoken of from the view point of Pythagoras here. Christians later adopt some of these images to explain their own philosophy.

The Triad is given priority in Christianity and so at the highest level for Christians we find plurality and unity harmonized in the Godhead. A doctrine lost by many Christians today is a doctrine that is known as the monarchia of the Father. If you read the Nicene Creed, it's very clear, "we believe in one God the Father Almighty Maker of Heaven and Earth and all things visible and invisible.." Christian Theology thus begins it's thinking with the person of the Father, and the person of the Father causes the other two persons of the Godhead, but this causation is not temporal, they spring forth from him in different ways represented by the two sides of the triangle that connect them back to the top point. God the Father has perfect knowledge of himself, and he knows himself as personal, and thus we have the Son who is begotten. God the Father perfects his knowledge of the Son in the procession of the Holy Spirit. All of what the Father is, is communicated to the Son and the Spirit in the acts of begetting and procession. So what we have here is one God the Father who is the eternal source of the Godhead that has for eternity shared all of what he is with the Son who is begotten of from God knowing himself, and the Spirit who proceeds and perfects God's knowledge of himself. There are three persons, but all three persons share the essence of the Father.

This is from a reddit post I made, but I think it's good enough to start a discussion.