Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Little do they know.

Who is knowing what??

God is all knowing......and all known.

I am all that is truly present and known in all experience. All that is known of the body, mind and world is the knowing of them and I am that Knowing. It is only thought that abstracts a ‘knower’ and a ‘known,’ from the seamless intimacy of Knowing or Experiencing. However, the body, mind and world are never known or experienced as such. So we cannot say there is the knowing ‘of them,’ but rather that there is only Knowing. I am not the knowing that pervades all experience; I am the Knowing that is all experience.

undividedjournal.com...

That is the typical way of writing with Hindu holy men, you can't get something that is concise and definite but always everything is vague.

.

originally posted by: carlncarl
a reply to: TzarChasm

Honestly I find this topic more to be along the lines of why evolution and creationism is not in conflict with each other.

If anything the biblical description of the universe formation very much is aligned with current science and physics theory.

There really is no difference between God created the universe, which is in the bible, and does not provide mechanism
and this is when/how the universe began via the big bang, providing a mechanism, without explanation of why this occurred

There is no evolution vs creation, they two concepts are not in conflict with each other, one simply provides a mechanism (evolution/physics) and another provides the story of a purpose

"The story of a purpose" Yes, that is the crux of the quandary. Engineering god so that ultimately he can make us feel useful and valuable. The problem happens when the All Father refuses to be controlled for our safety and comfort, so we must devise a system to appease him and earn his favor, ironically oblivious to the fact that we are actually appeasing our own sense of futility and despair in the middle of a cosmic wasteland that cares less for our fate than you might for a cockroach in your kitchen. We need purpose because we derive motivation and satisfaction from the idea that we helped orchestrate some epic triumph over the forces of evil.

There's no good vs evil, there's no ultimate final victory, there's no devil ruling in hell or planning the apocalypse, there's no cosmic architect who invented humans because he was lonely & sad, and there's no grandiose destiny for the human race. You get what you make in this lifetime in this mortal realm and that's it. If you don't believe me ask your dead ancestors (don't actually do that because it's considered witchcraft and you will burn for eternity)

a reply to: Pachomius

Say, DeusinAbsentia, tell me what is the core doctrine of Muslims as for Hindus, I know that with Christians, it is that man needs saving from sin, and Jesus did that for man.

If you want to know their doctrines, you should ask people of the faith. I've never been a Muslim or a Hindu, so whatever answer I give you would likely not be reflective of a believer.

My point was that positing God as a foundation for morality doesn't fix the issue of subjectivity.

How bad God is depends on what you say and do.

When you choose to cut yourself God will make you bleed.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
It seems like God is not understood among human understanding.

Good call OOB !
Does it not seem sometimes the less we say : the closer we get to 'defining God' ?

Imposing a frame by defining something : excluding all the things, potential things, and nothings, 'outside' of that frame ?
Do we never have tunnel-vision ?

Believing that our human understanding is so substantial, that we allow ourselves the arrogance to believe that it outweighs, all of the known unknowns, and unknown unknowns ?

How could we possibly 'think' our way to resolve the issue, if God exists or not ?

a reply to: Nothin

People are so lost in defining God it's a chaos.

It's all just a case of misidentification......

Be aware of being aware.

a reply to: TzarChasm

"The story of a purpose" Yes, that is the crux of the quandary. Engineering god so that ultimately he can make us feel useful and valuable. The problem happens when the All Father refuses to be controlled for our safety and comfort, so we must devise a system to appease him and earn his favor, ironically oblivious to the fact that we are actually appeasing our own sense of futility and despair in the middle of a cosmic wasteland that cares less for our fate than you might for a cockroach in your kitchen. We need purpose because we derive motivation and satisfaction from the idea that we helped orchestrate some epic triumph over the forces of evil

I do not think that god needs to be engineered, nor is a feeling of being useful and valuable a natural driving force for most people.
As for the creation of an appeasement system (religions in general), yes those tend to produce results that can be disastrous.
I would agree, god has no control over feeling, in the same sense we have no control over time, meaning from gods point of view we must provide that feeling and god prefers positive feeling over negative feeling, same as god must provide us time.

I would state in terms of heaven and hell, as a euphoria of either, you need to approach the boundaries of our reality, so that as you go to only feelings, you begin to only feel, and as a thermodynamically controlled gravitational field, at the point of collapse you are left with your last feeling.
This field will hold up forever, as your brain/circulation system ends at the moment of collapse due to the electric fields collapsing.
Hell is simply feeling forever, without any time moving, producing a sensation of space.

On the other side of the boundary, the thinking side, your last thoughts will be held up, and propelling action through space, so that when your electric field collapses your last realization of space (feeling) is held up, producing a sense of time.
Heaven is simply being in time forever, without any changes of space (feeling), producing a sense of eternity.

In general, in order for reality to be perceived, you must have an electro magnetic field mapped to a gravitational thermodynamic field that is excited when your senses reproduce this map on your brain. If these fields are mixed perfectly, then you can pass through the perception wall and lose your control of feelings and thought (action) while gaining control of time and space.

The real purpose is to recognize that an imbalance must be present in order to keep perceived reality going, and understanding that on the other side positive feelings are preferred to negative.

So yes God is simply a state of mind whose purpose is to provide us the ability to perceive time and space through our manipulation of our feelings and thoughts that are used to create action through time and space, while God provides us time and space.

anyway that is basically how I see it

The purposes of what has been should result in the experience of stability.

originally posted by: DeusInAbsentia
a reply to: Pachomius

Say, DeusinAbsentia, tell me what is the core doctrine of Muslims as for Hindus, I know that with Christians, it is that man needs saving from sin, and Jesus did that for man.

If you want to know their doctrines, you should ask people of the faith. I've never been a Muslim or a Hindu, so whatever answer I give you would likely not be reflective of a believer.

My point was that positing God as a foundation for morality doesn't fix the issue of subjectivity.

Dear DeusinAbsentia, you know the thread here is on "Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not."

So, first and foremost we must all work together to concur on what is existence, what do you say, do you know what is existence?

Otherwise, we are just into vain display of learning and smartness, but of no relevancy to the resolution of the issue, God exists or not.
.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Nothin

People are so lost in defining God it's a chaos.

I am not lost, I have a concept of God:
"God in concept is the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning."

And I know what is existence, and also that I am a transient being, meaning I have a beginning and an ending.

And now here is my certainty that God exists, namely:
From the fact that I am a transient being, it follows that God exists, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

There!

What do you guys here say about my certainty of God's existence?
.

originally posted by: carlncarl
a reply to: TzarChasm

"The story of a purpose" Yes, that is the crux of the quandary. Engineering god so that ultimately he can make us feel useful and valuable. The problem happens when the All Father refuses to be controlled for our safety and comfort, so we must devise a system to appease him and earn his favor, ironically oblivious to the fact that we are actually appeasing our own sense of futility and despair in the middle of a cosmic wasteland that cares less for our fate than you might for a cockroach in your kitchen. We need purpose because we derive motivation and satisfaction from the idea that we helped orchestrate some epic triumph over the forces of evil

I do not think that god needs to be engineered, nor is a feeling of being useful and valuable a natural driving force for most people.
As for the creation of an appeasement system (religions in general), yes those tend to produce results that can be disastrous.
I would agree, god has no control over feeling, in the same sense we have no control over time, meaning from gods point of view we must provide that feeling and god prefers positive feeling over negative feeling, same as god must provide us time.

I would state in terms of heaven and hell, as a euphoria of either, you need to approach the boundaries of our reality, so that as you go to only feelings, you begin to only feel, and as a thermodynamically controlled gravitational field, at the point of collapse you are left with your last feeling.
This field will hold up forever, as your brain/circulation system ends at the moment of collapse due to the electric fields collapsing.
Hell is simply feeling forever, without any time moving, producing a sensation of space.

On the other side of the boundary, the thinking side, your last thoughts will be held up, and propelling action through space, so that when your electric field collapses your last realization of space (feeling) is held up, producing a sense of time.
Heaven is simply being in time forever, without any changes of space (feeling), producing a sense of eternity.

In general, in order for reality to be perceived, you must have an electro magnetic field mapped to a gravitational thermodynamic field that is excited when your senses reproduce this map on your brain. If these fields are mixed perfectly, then you can pass through the perception wall and lose your control of feelings and thought (action) while gaining control of time and space.

The real purpose is to recognize that an imbalance must be present in order to keep perceived reality going, and understanding that on the other side positive feelings are preferred to negative.

So yes God is simply a state of mind whose purpose is to provide us the ability to perceive time and space through our manipulation of our feelings and thoughts that are used to create action through time and space, while God provides us time and space.

anyway that is basically how I see it

I see you have picked up a few science words and even used them in a complete sentence (although not coherently). Good effort, but still not compelling in a classroom with actual physics textbooks. Specifically you say God is simply a state of mind, I agree and refer you back to my previous contribution. A state of mind is a philosophy we use to rationalize the world around us like I described before. God is our therapy marionette.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

I see you have picked up a few science words and even used them in a complete sentence (although not coherently). Good effort, but still not compelling in a classroom with actual physics textbooks. Specifically you say God is simply a state of mind, I agree and refer you back to my previous contribution. A state of mind is a philosophy we use to rationalize the world around us like I described before. God is our therapy marionette.

Get over yourself. God exists. Evolution is a fairy tale. We did not come to be by random chance. We are biological supercomputers capable of self-repair, emotions, rationality, self-awareness, etc, etc. You're going to try to grandstand someone who is obviously on the pursuit of understanding??? You do realize you believe that we come from a random accident right? Therefore, according to your own belief, your opinions don't matter because there is no ultimate objective purpose. So go act according to your beliefs and keep your meaningless nihilist thoughts to yourself while people go and search for answers.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

I see you have picked up a few science words and even used them in a complete sentence (although not coherently). Good effort, but still not compelling in a classroom with actual physics textbooks. Specifically you say God is simply a state of mind, I agree and refer you back to my previous contribution. A state of mind is a philosophy we use to rationalize the world around us like I described before. God is our therapy marionette.

Get over yourself. God exists. Evolution is a fairy tale. We did not come to be by random chance. We are biological supercomputers capable of self-repair, emotions, rationality, self-awareness, etc, etc. You're going to try to grandstand someone who is obviously on the pursuit of understanding??? You do realize you believe that we come from a random accident right? Therefore, according to your own belief, your opinions don't matter because there is no ultimate objective purpose. So go act according to your beliefs and keep your meaningless nihilist thoughts to yourself while people go and search for answers.

Come over here and make me.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Come over here and make me.

I can sit here and continually prove that nihilism is a waste of your time and other people's time. Even if you're right, it doesn't matter. If you were truly a practicing nihilist you would stop wasting your time by typing out your meaningless opinion. You're a non-practicing nihilist because perhaps there is a part of you that knows there is an objective purpose in this life...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Come over here and make me.

I can sit here and continually prove that nihilism is a waste of your time and other people's time. Even if you're right, it doesn't matter. If you were truly a practicing nihilist you would stop wasting your time by typing out your meaningless opinion. You're a non-practicing nihilist because perhaps there is a part of you that knows there is an objective purpose in this life...

Nihilism is the label you keep using, not me. There is no "objective purpose" isn't the same as "there can be no individual purpose" but that purpose is discovered as a result of discovering what makes you vibe, as some call it, but it's not destiny.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Nihilism is the label you keep using, not me. There is no "objective purpose" isn't the same as "there can be no individual purpose" but that purpose is discovered as a result of discovering what makes you vibe, as some call it, but it's not destiny.

That individual purpose would be the objective purpose then.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Nihilism is the label you keep using, not me. There is no "objective purpose" isn't the same as "there can be no individual purpose" but that purpose is discovered as a result of discovering what makes you vibe, as some call it, but it's not destiny.

That individual purpose would be the objective purpose then.

Individual purpose is a choice, the preference to eliminate all animal proteins from your diet or abstinence or participating in protests. It's a lifestyle decision made completely on your own, not a universal decree. That's why we need a therapy marionette to help us roleplay as a helpless toy being guarded by a mysterious but sentimental cosmic force that wants to help the toy (that would be society) build a successful career and someday maybe even be a real boy. That's all we want, to stop being human and be something amazing and magical like an angel or a star. So we wish upon a cross.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Individual purpose is a choice, the preference to eliminate all animal proteins from your diet or abstinence or participating in protests. It's a lifestyle decision made completely on your own, not a universal decree.

There is more to life than food and drink. I am talking about what a person does with their life, in terms of generating a feeling of purpose. The fact that any sort of life goal can be surmised or considered shows there is an objective.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Individual purpose is a choice, the preference to eliminate all animal proteins from your diet or abstinence or participating in protests. It's a lifestyle decision made completely on your own, not a universal decree.

There is more to life than food and drink. I am talking about what a person does with their life, in terms of generating a feeling of purpose. The fact that any sort of life goal can be surmised or considered shows there is an objective.

What's the objective? The ultimate accomplishment on Earth in today's society?