Searching for ATS on Google

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

So there are consequences for saying things that you don't agree with.

Sounds authoritarian to me.

That's life. There are consequences for everthing, you know that. Whats getting upset because someone else exercised their rights when you exercised yours?

Is that authoritarian or just being salty?

Let me ask you a question DB, when you were young you ever pop your mouth off to an elder?
Did that result in a switch to the hindside?

Was that authoritarian?

Better yet did you have to go cut your own Switch from the Willow Tree?.....lol...oh how I miss the good olde days...I had my share of Switchings lol lol lol.

Sounds like the ones blaming the ownership/membership for the Site's demise are just really butthurt that the majority of users aren't following along with the mainstream mandate of "political correctness". We must all think/feel/believe as is dictated to us by our media/progressive overlords... if we don't and they de-platform us so that we can't have our space to express ourselves freely -- IT'S OUR OWN FAULT, BECAUSE CONSEQUENCES!

Not fascist at all. /s

In any case, I do believe given the time/effort/funds, this platform can sustain itself without needing to bow down to Google's algorithm. We have more than enough users willing to pay a subscription for access -- many don't even care to post, they just want to be able to continue reading. The hurdle will be getting a core group together to formulate a coherent plan and get the funding to re-structure the site's framework to support paid subscriptions. Might take some time but I do believe it'll happen.

originally posted by: XCrycek

originally posted by: Willtell
Owners from ATS and other sites screwed by Google should get a lawyer and do a class action suit against Google.
In Europe, they go after Google and FB, but in the US they're coddled.

Google is a private company. What would you sue them over? Can i sue ATS for "censoring" some of my posts?

I’m not talking about censorship.

They are a monopoly now as Microsoft was

They should be held to account for blocking out some from search engines and other monopolist acts.

They hide behind the AI crap


If you want to know what a US tech crackdown may look like, check out what Europe did

The European Commission first went after Google in 2017 with a $2.7 billion fine for abusing its dominance as a search engine. The EU accused Google of favoring its own comparison shopping service over competitors' in search results. Is Google a monopoly?Jun 7, 2019

www.cnbc.com...

The Europeans are on the ball it's the US where they coddle Goggle and FB and Twitter.

a reply to: kiro8lak

i have ats on my top bar on screen just a click and i'm here

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied

There are consequences for every action you take.
Consider this:

An OP on ATS that states he/she hates trans people.

You think an ad firm thats run by a trans person is obligated to have their business name appear next to that post? You think business are obligated to do business with anyone?

When was the last time someone made a thread talking about how much they hate trans people? Do you have any examples? I doubt you'll find any because a blatant hate-thread like that would be against the T&C. As I've said before I'm bisexual myself, and I doubt many people here besides a small handful would judge me or hate me for that. It also doesn't automatically make me a leftist, the primary reason I am forced to align myself against the left is because they seem to think that authoritarianism and social engineering is the way to guide society, and being a libertarian I strongly disagree with that type of thinking.

I was speaking to a trans friend the other day who said exactly the same thing to me, they feel the political correctness and virtue signalling has gone way too far and no longer represents them. It really doesn't matter what my sexuality is, I will always stand against control freaks who think it's their job to socially engineer society. What they fail to see is it actually has the opposite intended effect in many situations, censorship and propaganda doesn't make people more accepting, it makes them more angry and more likely to form an opinion which is the opposite of the one being shoved down their throat. It seeds more division and hatred, the same way BLM achieves the opposite of its intended goal.

Even if a person does believe that a female-male relationship is the only valid type of relationship, that is completely within their right to have that opinion. I'm by no means a fan of organized religion, but I respect the right and freedom for people to believe in what ever religion they want. That is what I call tolerance... yes it may be an outdated opinion that I disagree with but once again it comes down to free speech. It's about liberty and freedom, something we as a society seem to have tossed to the side and forgotten. To me that is extremely sad and worrisome, it's part of the core reason I support Trump despite not really liking him as a person, he represents opposition to the ever growing censorship and socialist takeover of society.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: kiro8lak

spell it out, first hit every time on google.

Of course if you literally type the words "above top secret" this website will show up...

a reply to: kiro8lak

Just Googled Above Top Secret and this site was the very first listing. Followed by an Amazon listing for a book about UFOs.

Looks like it's just you

Perhaps it's curtesy for google to not prioritize items labelled "top secret"

I “do” SEO for a living. This isn’t going to be all-inclusive but a couple of big points...

1) Google relies less on “algorithms” lately and instead, more on their AI engine they call “Rank Brain.” Rank Brain is responsible for not only “learning” what the majority of people want to see but what “you” as an individual want to see and will show results accordingly.

2) Beyond that... there are a few factors that override that even. These are considered “bare bones” rank factors and another poster mentioned some of them. However, I doubt ATS has a problem with bounce rate or time on site. Instead...

I think the biggest problem is the SSL issue. I can pretty much get any site (less the qualifiers I’m about to mention) with a domain active for more than a year, at minimum, page 1 ranking for even the most competitive terms, in 30 days or less. Yet, while I love ATS, all bets are off - and I won’t agree to even try - for a site without SSL. It’s too big of a hit to take and try to rank successfully. It’s that important today. It can also explain de-indexing because SSL gets even more important every day.

Also... while Google obviously makes money off their add network, due to lawsuits, etc., they ding sites that have over a certain percentage of ads, when it comes to organic ranking. This is especially true if and when ads appear “above the fold” or “take over” the screen.

Then, a site map is also critical. Today, if there is not an xml version on the site, it’s tough to rank well. (As I am writing this, I have not checked to see if ATS has one or not as I’m writing on my phone in bed.)

So, basically, a really oversimplified answer is Google’s AI engine can now check all these things rapidly to decide if a site can even join the party and if so, whether an individual - or the public at large - truly wants to see it in results. If what it determines ATS is “about” on the pages it seems worthy of rank (the pages it indexes) based on its other criteria doesn’t match what it thinks you (or any other searcher) wants to see, it won’t be shown or won’t be shown at or near the top.

Now, obviously there is a lot more to it like mobile first indexing, traffic patterns, geography, local business vs virtual, the fact that it’s social or “comprised solely of comments” and more. However, the factors I think are likely most influential (and likely the fact that it is a comment-based forum) are the ones I mentioned. And again, I get paid to make such “guesses.” Thus, I am not really just shooting in the dark. On the other hand, the big caveat to that is that Google does have their own blacklist for certain sites and types of sites. And if you fall into or on that list... it can be damn hard to make good progress or see reward for effort.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

All that is nice and dandy, but show me where anyone has been censored.

You all seem to think that someone else exercising their right to not do do business with another is censorship.

It's not.

You can pretend you don't know what Im talking about when it comes to the type of post frequent on ATS, that's fine.

You simply don't want to own up to consequences, but that's not entirely true, see the football player that took a knee - the same people screaming "censorship" had no problem boycotting the NFL because "I dont want to see that while im watching football".

"I shouldn't be cancelled for my opinion, yet its perfectly fine to cancel others whos opinion I dont agree with".

I absolutely love how some folks her pretend ATS is some last bastion of fee speech when 90% of political content is the exact same # youll find anywhere else.

"Auuu but what about black on black crime"
"Auuu fake news did this"
"Auuu but obama"
"Auuu but the evil leftist"


You're not speaking out agaisnt "a narrative", simply driving another one.

a reply to: nicevillegrl

Much easiet to blame the "evil leftist".

Can't be asked to take some time to educate yourself on how these things work.

Ive lost a little respect for skeptic pushing that half assed narrative knowing thats not the full picture.

The entire point of ATS is for conspiracy theory, possibly getting flagged by 'fake news' filters.

Certain divergent thinking styles have become information hazards

Information hazards are risks that arise from the dissemination or the potential dissemination of
true information that may cause harm or enable some agent to cause harm. Such hazards are often
subtler than direct physical threats, and, as a consequence, are easily overlooked. They can,
however, be important.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You all seem to think that someone else exercising their right to not do do business with another is censorship.

It's not.

When we're talking about a monopoly which controls the largest search engine and largest ad network, I think it's fair to call it censorship. Definitions aside, it's the behavior of petty dictators and a-holes. Even completely ignoring the issue of ATS, they have been cracking down on conspiracy topics all over the place very hard for the last few years. Every few months I see some new story about new machine learning algorithms and other systems designed to suppress the spread of "fake news" and "conspiratorial topics".

Even on the first page of this thread someone posted a link to a cnbc article about pressure being put onto Google, Facebook and Twitter to take more action. I wrote a thread back in 2017 when I could see these algorithms starting to ramp up. YouTube didn't even try to hide it, they still don't, they have dev blogs where they discuss in detail how they are using AI to suppress "controversial" videos by hiding them from the suggestions, disabling ads, de-ranking videos, showing curated search results, etc.

The phraseology they use is merely a cover for their political bias, demonetizing anything not "family friendly" or anything deemed to be "fake news" allows them to disguise the censorship. Sure fake news does exist but I prefer to make up my own mind rather than let corporations decide for me. These self-appointed arbiters of truth are not people I feel deserve my trust because they fail to remain neutral. They may claim otherwise but almost every day I see evidence of their bias and I've seen countless content creators suffer as a result.

You can pretend you don't know what Im talking about when it comes to the type of post frequent on ATS, that's fine.

I didn't say ATS is free of racism, sexism, etc. Clearly there's a portion of highly conservative and far-right people on ATS, but it seems to me you're not seeing the nuance in many arguments being made. If a person talks about the reasons why there are less women in certain fields that doesn't automatically make it sexist. You have to look deeper than just the surface level and automatically dismiss every argument being made by members here.

Like I said ATS will remove anything that is blatantly disrespectful or hateful, but I very much appreciate the fact that mods are able to see the grey areas. Just because a topic may appear politically incorrect doesn't mean it should be removed or that it's wrong. For example the people condemning the looting aren't automatically racist, even the people who criticize BLM are often making valid points, not everything is black and white, pardon the pun.

I absolutely love how some folks her pretend ATS is some last bastion of fee speech when 90% of political content is the exact same # youll find anywhere else.

ATS does have a lot of unique content, but obviously there are many other places which support free speech, however not many have a community like this. Even many of the people I regularly disagree are still a valuable part of this community in my mind. I don't instantly view people as my arch enemy based purely politics... my own mother has the exact opposite political beliefs to me and I love no one else more than her.

"Auuu but what about black on black crime"
"Auuu fake news did this"
"Auuu but obama"
"Auuu but the evil leftist"

If that's all you're able to get from ATS that's your problem not anyone else's. Like I said, try taking off your political blinders and look beyond the surface, try to have some empathy and understand why so many people here feel the way they feel... I fully get what you're saying because I can empathize with your point of view, but I also fully understand why people call the MSM fake news and don't like leftist politicians. The Obama thing does get old though.

What also gets old is constantly having SJW propaganda assaulting me from every possible angle, being told we're racist for supporting Trump, being constantly told white people are scum especially white males, being told all police are evil... then when a black cop is shot and killed by looters it's crickets. It's precisely that type of selective reactionary outrage that infuriates me, it's using the life of human beings as political pawns, and being allowed to say all of this on ATS without fear of censorship is why I love it.

Here's an excerpt from a thread I wrote last month before I knew how much trouble ATS was in... common sense told me it was coming but I didn't think it would be this soon.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

Some times I wonder how much longer ATS will last in current times, and I'm sure the owners sometimes have that concern because more and more we're seeing conspiracies being compared to extremism. The entire premise is based on this delusional idea that fake news from bots is going to fool us all into doing things like elect Trump, so it's really a political agenda. ATS mods are impartial for the most part, yes there are mods I often disagree with but they don't censor me, and there are also mods which I often agree with. The same applies to the members here, we have many political opinions from all sides.

ATS often gets portrayed as some sort of alt-right haven, and while it does attract a lot of conservatives, there is also a large base of people who are more socialist and support people like Bernie Sanders. I know this because they show up in nearly every political thread I write lol. But if I didn't want my opinions challenged I wouldn't post here, true growth can only come through having your ideas challenged. It's not like we get a massive amount of attention for writing a good thread, even the best thread might get a few hundred flags at most compared to the thousands or millions of likes and shares possible on large social media platforms.

Lets take a moment to appreciate ATS

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
When we're talking about a monopoly which controls the largest search engine and largest ad network, I think it's fair to call it censorship. Definitions aside,

Google indexes less than of 1% of the internet. There are several alternatives to google, however non of them are as popular.

Why?

Google has the superior product. If google's ml algorithms were 'censoring', the free market would've produced a viable competitor by now. The millions of people using google via any number of services would seek alternatives.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Even on the first page of this thread someone posted a link to a cnbc article about pressure being put onto Google, Facebook and Twitter to take more action. I wrote a thread back in 2017 when I could see these algorithms starting to ramp up. YouTube didn't even try to hide it, they still don't, they have dev blogs where they discuss in detail how they are using AI to suppress "controversial" videos by hiding them from the suggestions, disabling ads, de-ranking videos, showing curated search results, etc.

Their platforms, their rights. You may think because youtube, for example, is popular that that popularity entitles you to host content (at no charge to you btw) and then profit from that content. You are not entitled.
Youtube remove's content frequently, for MANY reasons. Pretending its simply because of a political view point is outright dishonesty. This thread for example, so far not one, but two people who are familiar with what SEO is and how it works have pointed out potential reasons ATS clicks have plummeted - it defeats the narrative that this site has been targeted due to opinions, but that destroy world views so its ignored.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
The phraseology they use is merely a cover for their political bias, demonetizing anything not "family friendly" or anything deemed to be "fake news" allows them to disguise the censorship. Sure fake news does exist but I prefer to make up my own mind rather than let corporations decide for me. These self-appointed arbiters of truth are not people I feel deserve my trust because they fail to remain neutral.

Everybody is biased. People producing content, people designing / training ML models for algorithms....everyone.
You have the right to want to make up your mind, you also have the right to produce a set of tools that can replace google for others that share your opinion - on the flip side, google has the right to determine which content they incur a cost to host / index.

Again, the core of this is people feeling like they have the right to use someone else's stuff however they see fit, while at the same time being shielding from any consequences.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
I didn't say ATS is free of racism, sexism, etc. Clearly there's a portion of highly conservative and far-right people on ATS, but it seems to me you're not seeing the nuance in many arguments being made. If a person talks about the reasons why there are less women in certain fields that doesn't automatically make it sexist. You have to look deeper than just the surface level and automatically dismiss every argument being made by members here.

Of course you do!
It's not sexist to explain how the jobs women hold tend to pay less, just like it's not being a sjw when you explain that even in similar fields with similar roles, women are paid less. It's foolish to dismiss an argument without attempting to understand what argument has been presented, but many arguments are echo's of arguments that I've long understood.

When you see yet another opening post that's essentially "how can black lives matter because [the same # we've seen in hundreds of threads], the reason isn't to debate, there's no reason not to dismiss as several people have tried to explain these nuances of things, yet like clockwork again and again. Why not immediately dismiss it? It's been beaten to death and the people that feel that way will continue, no amount of dialog will change perspectives here.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
Like I said ATS will remove anything that is blatantly disrespectful or hateful, but I very much appreciate the fact that mods are able to see the grey areas. Just because a topic may appear politically incorrect doesn't mean it should be removed or that's wrong. For example the people condemning the looting aren't automatically racist, even the people who criticize BLM are often making valid points, not everything is black and white, pardon the pun.

This is demonstrably not true. ATS will sometimes remove " blatantly disrespectful or hateful" content, other times it's moderators posting " blatantly disrespectful or hateful" content. About criticism, critique everything, but also know that reasonably intelligent folks can distinguish criticism from virtual signaling. See above.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
ATS does have a lot of unique content, but obviously there are many other places which support free speech, however not many have a community like this. Even many of the people I regularly disagree are still a valuable part of this community in my mind. I don't instantly view people as my arch enemy based purely politics... my own mother has the exact opposite political beliefs to me and I love no one else more than her.

ATS used to have a lot of unique content, that's why I started coming here several years ago. The ATS that I found all those years is not the same as today.
Absolutely nothing wrong with having difference of opinons.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
If that's all you're able to get from ATS that's your problem not anyone else's. Like I said, try taking off your political blinders and look beyond the surface, try to have some empathy and understand why so many people here feel the way they feel... I fully get what you're saying because I can empathize with your point of view, but I also fully understand why people call the MSM fake news and don't like leftist politicians. The Obama thing does get old though.

That's literally all ATS has at this point, and it bleeds over into almost everything else. Again, there's no surface to look beneath as almost 100% of the threads that will appear on the front page are all rehashed to the point you can predict who will post and almost exactly what will be posted.
It's also not my problem, its the problem of those that are attempting to monitze ATS.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
What also gets old is constantly having SJW propaganda...

Sounds like you've just fallen victim to a different flavor of propganda. Where white men, via white own media, is demonzing white men. Or that protesting, a fundemental right === rioting and looting.

a reply to: XCrycek
So you’re blaming the right wing.... ok got it.

I agree. In my post outlining how / why Google determines index and rank, I should have been clearer that I don't believe any of that means they aren't using - or hiding behind - their AI engine to direct "thinking" via the search results.

With all I said, the bigger point I should have made is that they "tell" their AI where to learn from as well. And then, we influence what we individually and collectively see in search results by the things we look at and view on the regular.

That's why we have to be careful from that perspective too. Sometimes, checking something out on another site/platform because it's so audacious, actually plays into the hands of the AI because we are "telling it" we want to see more of "that."

Right now, currently and in the recent past, just imagine what the AI is "learning" about the US at large - what we think, believe, and want to see more of...

a reply to: Willtell

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: XCrycek

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: XCrycek

It's a terrible thing when people voicing their opinions are blamed for censorship and not those censoring.

People have been jumping the ship - ATS for 5 years now. You should at least know that "Fluffy Bunny"

Doesn't change my point.

You and others are blaming people expressing themselves for the demise of ATS.

It's as if you're angry that we don't agree with you and therefor should be silenced.

Your views stink of authoritarian fascism.

Hmmmm how quickly we forget.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
Google has the superior product. If google's ml algorithms were 'censoring', the free market would've produced a viable competitor by now. The millions of people using google via any number of services would seek alternatives.

We both know this argument is highly flawed because once a monopoly is established it's very hard to replace with anything else, especially if most content creators are on the largest platform. Nevertheless there are many "free speech" alternatives to Google and YouTube such as DuckDuckGo and BitChute. Every few months someone will make a thread asking for alternative social media sites, there's clearly a large demand for platforms that respect privacy and free speech. You may not care for such pesky freedoms but the majority of society does.

Youtube remove's content frequently, for MANY reasons. Pretending its simply because of a political view point is outright dishonesty. This thread for example, so far not one, but two people who are familiar with what SEO is and how it works have pointed out potential reasons ATS clicks have plummeted - it defeats the narrative that this site has been targeted due to opinions, but that destroy world views so its ignored.

My profession also happens to be website development, not specifically in the area of SEO but I definitely have enough experience with search engines to understand how they work. I also have quite a bit of experience working with artificial neural networks, which is why I've written quite a few threads on AI. I've also been on the internet long enough to see how search engines have changed and how they are now highly biased. Obviously there are more reasons for why content gets removed, but I have enough first hand experience with censorship on social media platforms to know it's absolutely a real thing whether they admit it or not.

google has the right to determine which content they incur a cost to host / index.

If they want immunity from being held liable for what their users post, they must remain neutral and not curate content based on their biases. The recent Executive Order from Trump expanded on this law to make it clear that "social media companies that engage in censoring any political conduct will not be able to keep their liability shield". Of course the left freaked out and made claims such as this move will result in more censorship, when in reality it will have the opposite effect. If they want to keep their immunity they need to dial down the censorship and remain neutral.

It's not sexist to explain how the jobs women hold tend to pay less, just like it's not being a sjw when you explain that even in similar fields with similar roles, women are paid less. It's foolish to dismiss an argument without attempting to understand what argument has been presented, but many arguments are echo's of arguments that I've long understood.

Seems to me the pay gap argument is one of the biggest myths there is. Even many prominent figures on the left have said it's a myth based on faulty logic, women earn less overall due to a difference in career preferences. Show me even one example of males being paid more than females for the exact same job in the same business, if I'm not mistaken that would even be against the law and considered discrimination. Maybe a decade or two ago you could have provided some clear examples, but we now live in a world which is not only fair to women and minority groups, they are often put at the front of the line.

Modern corporations are all over social media constantly virtue signally about how woke and diverse they are. They no longer hire people based on skill but based on the color of their skin or what's between their legs. We are constantly told how there's not enough women in the tech field because men are sexist, when in reality I can assure you that men enjoy having women around, especially geeky guys. If a male employer is given the choice between an equally skilled man and women he will choose the women 9 times out of 10. Not everything is the result of some evil white male patriarchy.

When you see yet another opening post that's essentially "how can black lives matter because [the same # we've seen in hundreds of threads]

Again, show me one thread where someone is saying black lives don't matter or questioning why we should value black lives. I found one thread titled Do black lives really matter? which sounds bad but if you read it, the premise of the thread is how we ignore a lot of black deaths if they're aren't politically convenient for the left, like the multiple black people killed in the riots so far... one has to ask if the left really does think black lives matter or if they are just being used as pawns to sow division and stir up a race war.

I will say it very clearly, BLACK LIVES DO MATTER, they matter just as much as any other life, but I still don't support the group BLM because I think they take an extreme and borderline racist approach to spreading their message. The point I see being made in many threads criticizing BLM is that we need to stop separating ourselves based on skin color, we're all human beings and and until we realize that we're never going to get rid of racism or inequality. When questions like "how dark does a black person need to be" or "what percentage of genetics is required to be in a minority group" become necessary it means you're starting to racially segregate people.

Continued from last post...

ATS used to have a lot of unique content, that's why I started coming here several years ago. The ATS that I found all those years is not the same as today.

Your profile says you joined in 2018, I'll just assume you've been around longer. ATS has always been changing, ever since I joined there are always people longing for the "good old days" of ATS, I even made a thread like that a few years ago. In 2008 when I first found ATS, I was reading some of the older threads from the early 2000's and I could already see how much ATS had changed in those years between. Before politics became popular on ATS we were constantly rehashing the same old topics which was a problem because duplicate threads aren't really allowed.

Like I've explained many times before, it's not easy to consistently come up with new conspiracy ideas. However I still try to post at least one thread a month on non-political topics and the science forum is by far my most used forum with about double the number of threads I've posted in the mud pit. Nothing is stopping you or anyone else from writing interesting threads on non-political issues, but instead of doing that all I see is whining about how there's not enough conspiracy topics on ATS, with no real understanding of why that's the case and no motivation to make threads of their own.

That's literally all ATS has at this point, and it bleeds over into almost everything else. Again, there's no surface to look beneath as almost 100% of the threads that will appear on the front page are all rehashed to the point you can predict who will post and almost exactly what will be posted.

If that's all you choose to look at then it's all you will see. There are other ways to browse ATS besides looking at what is trending on the front page. Like I said it's not our problem if the majority political opinion on ATS doesn't align with your world view, we aren't going to change our beliefs to meet the requirements of leftist dictators. ATS will either find another way to survive or we will die, but we will never kiss the ass of control freaks who think its their job to control how people think. We will think however we want, sorry if you don't like it but we aren't going to change to appease the tech overlords.

Or that protesting, a fundemental right === rioting and looting.

This is a prime example of how you fail to see any nuance what so ever. Rioting and looting === rioting and looting. I would have absolutely no issue what so ever with peaceful protests, but when you start beating up business owners, burning down buildings, shooting cops, overrunning police stations, establishing autonomous zones, it absolutely no longer is simple protesting, it's anarchy. I've seen several black business owners in tears after losing everything, I've seen old people and women beaten up defending their business, I don't give a rats ass what the protests are about, if that's the behavior they want to demonstrate then I unequivocally oppose it.

Yes of course there are peaceful protests and there's nothing wrong with that, and it's unfair to group those together with the violent protesters. But what you're trying to do is merge them and claim it's all peaceful, and anyone who may have any disagreement at all with these riots must be a brainwashed racist. Once again it's these types of deceptive narratives that make me despise the left, they can never give you the facts without some spin, it's always half-truths sprinkled with appeals to emotion. They can literally stand in front of burning buildings while people are throwing things at them and say it's entirely peaceful. Sorry but that is fake news.