Fifth State of Matter Created Aboard ISS

Awesome beyond words. This is one of those opportunistic 'shot in the dark' gambles made possible ONLY by the ISS and astronaut crew. It alone may in the future be seen as justifying the entire expense of the program, even the world total of expenditures on EVERY space program. The implications of this to physics cannot be overestimated. It was never even thought possible before ISS became operational and offered hosting to instrumentation never before imagined -- and was turned into reality when a small NASA special fund of 'mad money' had unexpected surpluses because the allocated maintenance and upgrade budget wasn't needed when equipment lasted longer and needed fewer repair efforts. A small NASA panel had an open file of 'wild ideas' submitted by scientists, and settled on a few more that included this. Grand-slam home run.
phys.org...

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

a reply to: JimOberg

Big thanks Jim, while the information is way above my basic science understanding I can only thank you for providing your insight and links

My simple brain immediately went here, lets hope not

Scientifically it's a big deal. No question. But it's not going to fix any problems on earth. Dark energy searches, prospecting for sub-surface minerals, all while freedom burns and viri go unresolved.

I love science and space but we have bigger issues to deal with.

a reply to: JimOberg

Thanks for this find. There are so many implications for this discovery. There's a lot of potential here.

a reply to: JimOberg

The “quantum fifth state of matter” is a Bose-Einstein Condensate (BEC). For those that need a refresher, this where multiple atoms of a single element are “cooled” towards absolute zero. The atoms are restricted from moving by lasers that by restricting the Brownian motion means that they are absent from heat. Next a magnetic field is applied synchronizing the atoms, which thanks to being so cold, behave as quantum waves instead of Bohr’s “solar system” atoms... that is the “quantum fifth state”.

In this case, they removed gravity which allowed the BEC to have a longer existence and a new method to examine this strange form of matter (really big things, atoms, behaving like “math on paper”. Because most don’t understand that bunch of symbols, this allows them to measure, examine, and experiment with real world representation of “math on paper’!!

That is pretty cool!!



My only hesitation is that it probably already known and being used by the MIC.

And the real question is, what happens to gravity without gravity and the Podkletnov effect??!!

There is a noodle burner!!

But still, BECs in space... awesome!!

, really, really,

a reply to: JimOberg
It's great to be able to study longer lived Bose-Einstein condensates in space.

The article headline seems a bit ambiguous and could be misinterpreted : "Quantum 'fifth state of matter' observed in space for first time"

It's been observed before, for the first time in 1995 which resulted in a Nobel prize being awarded in 2001, but it's very short-lived on Earth, and studying it in space, or microgravity, allows it to last longer.

It's now been studied in space for the first time, but it's been studied in microgravity before, in a 146m long drop tower, as explained in this paper from 2010:

Bose-Einstein Condensation in Microgravity

Albert Einstein’s insight that it is impossible to distinguish a local experiment in a “freely falling elevator” from one in free space led to the development of the theory of general relativity. The wave nature of matter manifests itself in a striking way in Bose-Einstein condensates, where millions of atoms lose their identity and can be described by a single macroscopic wave function. We combine these two topics and report the preparation and observation of a Bose-Einstein condensate during free fall in a 146-meter-tall evacuated drop tower. During the expansion over 1 second, the atoms form a giant coherent matter wave that is delocalized on a millimeter scale, which represents a promising source for matter-wave interferometry to test the universality of free fall with quantum matter.

Maybe now they can compare the microgravity drop tower results to the microgravity space results.

i thought the fifth state of matter was jelly [or jello for americans]

a reply to: HalWesten

We can't enjoy this interesting discovery and still care about the incidents here on earth? It's silly to say we shouldn't be interested in this because other stuff is going on here in our little world.

a reply to: continuousThunder

The “fifth state of matter” is plasma.

That is an element with electrons blown out of their shell, like the fluorescent light bulb.

We are trying to create a plasma of two different isotopes of hydrogen and then push them together at ridiculous conditions to give us more energy out than we put in: hot nuclear fusion.

This the really small world of “quantum” where atoms do not behave like how we normally observe them.

Have you ever seen the liquid helium video?

Here you go... (OP’s post is about how weird atoms behave as BECs in zero G. The helium here is a kind of BEC and seems, at very least, interesting...)



Like has been said, the OP’s BEC is off planet and not part of gravity which is really interesting to us nerds who follow this stuff!!

The experiment creates the coldest known conditions in the entire Universe, colder even than intergalactic space. The apparatus is described here: coldatomlab.jpl.nasa.gov...

I’ve checked with some theoretical physicists on my ‘friends’ list and they assure me there is no truth to the internet rumor that the Cold Atom Lab was nicknamed CAL because it would give them a cool edge in cryo research.
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originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
The “fifth state of matter” is plasma.

Plasma is commonly referred to as the fourth state of matter, while the Bose-Einstein condensate is sometimes referred to as the “fifth state of matter”.

States of matter

There are four natural states of matter: Solids, liquids, gases and plasma. The fifth state is the man-made Bose-Einstein condensates.

It wouldn't make any sense to refer to plasma as the “fifth state of matter” as it's one of the four natural states of matter. Bose-Einstein condensates are man-made so if that is referred to as a state of matter, it should certainly fall after the four natural states, along with other states of matter which are not natural and not usually numbered.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Thanks to Mr Oberg. Cool (fifth state) beans. As we're a conspiracy site, though, I'll add, to Mr TEOTW:

My only hesitation is that it probably already known and being used by the MIC.

Yeah, my first thought was "Huh, so they're finally seeding a bit of the science that's been used in the black world for decades. I wonder what the next bit dribbled out will be? Hope it's a power plant or better biology!"

I know I come across as ignorant and weird, and I am, but there's a good case for secret technology in materials science and physics, especially, that us surface crawlers would consider magic.... even beyond the agreed upon "few years ahead for defense" position.

We oppressed cattle might have an edge in ethics and decency, though.

What properties could a fifth state of matter be used for .
Me thinking along the lines of that tic tac?

This makes them nearly impossible for scientists to study on Earth, where gravity interferes with the magnetic fields required to hold them in place for observation.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
i thought the fifth state of matter was jelly [or jello for americans]

Are we glad you are not paid to think as a Scientists? /s

This is a step that had to be made in order to prove BEC exists and can be stabilized. The theory is not a fact until you can establish a way to bring BEC's to life. Can we do anything with what we learned here? NOT YET

But, we can see a way to start making other assumptions and build ways to test them so we can establish if those assumptions are correct. That is the Scientific process in action and I have hope we can end the days of fabrication for a narrative. That kills science.

originally posted by: 0bserver1
What properties could a fifth state of matter be used for .
Me thinking along the lines of that tic tac?

Fifth state of matter (BEC) research is for understanding fundamental physics. It only exists near absolute zero, and in Earth gravity for only a small fraction of a second. Even in space, where it lasts longer, it only lasts one second or so, so that and the near absolute zero requirement are somewhat limiting in terms of practical applications.

A physicist has posted a plausible but unconfirmed hypothesis for the tic tac UFO seen at Area 51 by Lazar and friends, which involves the fourth state of matter, plasma. It had characteristics similar to the tic tac Fravor describes with oscillating movements, and would have the ability to appear to accelerate at rates that would crush a human "occupant". I made a thread on ATS about the possibility, but I don't recall anybody who replied to the thread who seemed to understand the science, which is based on principles that maybe only physicists understand.

Not trying to put down the great work of scientists and I think it's awesome that they found a 5th state of matter, now what practical specific applications of benefit to humankind can we get out of it? Please enlighten me!

a reply to: Arbitrageur
I think your efforts in the ufo forums are wasted. You would however do quite well in the aviation forum. Many there would understand what you're talking about quite well and have for years. Although i dont recall commenting on your thread regarding that physicists theory, i do recall it wasn't entirely correct. But I'd be quibbling over details.

Yes oscillating movements is an apt description. I like to use the term shuffling too. Jittery. Orbital. Falling leaf. And at times quicker than you can blink. But they can also sit perfectly still. enough to almost resemble a star under the right conditions.

Mr. Oberg. Thank you for this thread and news. It's good to read and at least to me pretty exciting.

"Applications range from tests of general relativity and searches for dark energy and gravitational waves to spacecraft navigation and prospecting for subsurface minerals on the moon and other planetary bodies," he said.

I'm with everyone else. Fascinating stuff, but these "applications" sound rather vague and are all currently theoretical. What's the practical benefit? How will this stuff "justify the entire expense of the [ISS] program" as the OP put it?

If you're familiar with the history of the ISS, it's mostly there for show, so some folks can pat themselves on the back for their contributions to international cooperation. I'm all for that, but there are much more practical ways we could demonstrate that, even within the space industry.

reply to: JimOberg

Many thanks Jim for posting this tremendous scientific breakthough lost in all the news.

"Bose-Einstein condensates (BECs)—the existence of which was predicted by Albert Einstein and Indian mathematician Satyendra Nath Bose almost a century ago—are formed when atoms of certain elements are cooled to near absolute zero (0 Kelvin, minus 273.15 Celsius).

At this point, the atoms become a single entity with quantum properties, wherein each particle also functions as a wave of matter.

BECs straddle the line between the macroscopic world governed by forces such as gravity and the microscopic plane, ruled by quantum mechanics.

Scientists believe BECs contain vital clues to mysterious phenomena such as dark energy—the unknown energy thought to be behind the Universe's accelerating expansion."

As a former NASA contractor for mapping the landing sites for the Lunar Landing Missions I try to keep up with all the latest developments, this one is outstanding. Thanks again for bring this breakthough to ATS.