What the CDC Thinks Schools Should Look Like This Fall

a reply to: chr0naut

These aren't laws. They are guidelines. The problem is that if you know anything about the practical realities of either children or schools, then you know most of them are unworkable as written.

So if you are writing guidelines for re-opening schools, don't you think you would aim for things that are at least realistic to implement?

For example, the idea of every child having his or her own set of school supplies, manipulatives, etc.

We are in the borderlands between relative prosperity and poverty. About 1/2 to 2/3 of the kids in our son's elementary have the means to provide their own stuff, but the rest simply don't have the means. And school funding being what it is, the school cannot provide enough for every kid to have their own either. We always bring in enough for our own and enough for two or three other kids, and simply add it to the pile every year. But that's why many schools have supply sharing.

Additionally, the idea that you are going to sit gradeschool age kids, especially boys, in their desk at 9am every morning, and keep them there until school is over at 4pm. Do away with recess and gym because you can't keep the kids from coming into contact. Normal kids will go haywire and not learn, but now think about your ADD/ADHD kids ...

a reply to: ketsuko

I think a shopping list of suggestions is appropriate. Since capabilities and needs will very widely.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

These aren't laws. They are guidelines. The problem is that if you know anything about the practical realities of either children or schools, then you know most of them are unworkable as written.

So if you are writing guidelines for re-opening schools, don't you think you would aim for things that are at least realistic to implement?

For example, the idea of every child having his or her own set of school supplies, manipulatives, etc.

We are in the borderlands between relative prosperity and poverty. About 1/2 to 2/3 of the kids in our son's elementary have the means to provide their own stuff, but the rest simply don't have the means. And school funding being what it is, the school cannot provide enough for every kid to have their own either. We always bring in enough for our own and enough for two or three other kids, and simply add it to the pile every year. But that's why many schools have supply sharing.

Additionally, the idea that you are going to sit gradeschool age kids, especially boys, in their desk at 9am every morning, and keep them there until school is over at 4pm. Do away with recess and gym because you can't keep the kids from coming into contact. Normal kids will go haywire and not learn, but now think about your ADD/ADHD kids ...

What, then, would you propose in their place?

a reply to: chr0naut

I think I'd propose a commission where the people who actually have to work with kids in schools on the ground are part of the group at the table. I think I might also consult with places where schools were either never closed or were opened and carried on during this time. Those places do exist.

a reply to: ketsuko

I can't stand to breathe thru a dang mask for a 30 min grocery shopping trip. I'm yanking that thing off on the way to the car. I can't imagine students and teachers surviving all day/every day wearing masks.

And that's just ONE of the rules. The buses, the lunches, the shared supplies...
This plan just isn't feasible!

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

I think I'd propose a commission where the people who actually have to work with kids in schools on the ground are part of the group at the table. I think I might also consult with places where schools were either never closed or were opened and carried on during this time. Those places do exist.

I'd just give it a best-effort attempt. no-one is going to prosecute anyone for slipping a bit.

a reply to: ketsuko

Why not quote the CDC instead of a right-wing blogosphere summary?

Here you go:

Considerations for Schools

What a shock! Your source is utterly misleading.

Guiding Principles to Keep in Mind
The more people a student or staff member interacts with, and the longer that interaction, the higher the risk of COVID-19 spread. The risk of COVID-19 spread increases in school settings as follows:

Lowest Risk: Students and teachers engage in virtual-only classes, activities, and events.
More Risk: Small, in-person classes, activities, and events. Groups of students stay together and with the same teacher throughout/across school days and groups do not mix. Students remain at least 6 feet apart and do not share objects (e.g., hybrid virtual and in-person class structures, or staggered/rotated scheduling to accommodate smaller class sizes).

Highest Risk: Full sized, in-person classes, activities, and events. Students are not spaced apart, share classroom materials or supplies, and mix between classes and activities.

COVID-19 is mostly spread by respiratory droplets released when people talk, cough, or sneeze. It is thought that the virus may spread to hands from a contaminated surface and then to the nose or mouth, causing infection. Therefore, personal prevention practices (such as handwashing, staying home when sick) and environmental cleaning and disinfection are important principles that are covered in this document. Fortunately, there are a number of actions school administrators can take to help lower the risk of COVID-19 exposure and spread during school sessions and activities.

and

Teach and reinforce use of cloth face coverings. Face coverings may be challenging for students (especially younger students) to wear in all-day settings such as school. Face coverings should be worn by staff and students (particularly older students) as feasible, and are most essential in times when physical distancing is difficult. Individuals should be frequently reminded not to touch the face covering and to wash their hands frequently. Information should be provided to staff, students, and students’ families on proper use, removal, and washing of cloth face coverings.

Note: Cloth face coverings should not be placed on:
Children younger than 2 years old
Anyone who has trouble breathing or is unconscious
Anyone who is incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the cloth face covering without assistance
Cloth face coverings are meant to protect other people in case the wearer is unknowingly infected but does not have symptoms. Cloth face coverings are not surgical masks, respirators, or other medical personal protective equipment.

Shocker; your source lied.

You will notice that these folks who know more about medicene, research and epidemiology than the experts never offer any alternatives ... they just post lies fed to them by the media.

I'm starting to wonder which is the real enemy here ... the statist TPTB or the endless calvacade of gulls that do their bidding.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Not really.

MO guidelines - masks for kids 2 and up

It's all in here.

Under the nice bullet points. No lies at all. These are the guidelines. Btw, the seecond link is the CDC one you are after.

It is grossly unrealistic if followed the way they lay it out.

Proof this stuff is being put on the table.

Some of the suggestions are minor – such as making sure the desks in every classroom is six feet apart, that kids don‘t share school supplies, and that they stay with their classmates and not mix with other classes just in case a student does come down with COVID-19, it’ll be easier to trace.

They also suggest having hallways be one way to avoid students running into each other, reducing class sizes for choir, band and PE, as well as not letting parents visit their kids at school.

Thi s is what Missouri has come up with, and it's horrible.

They are thinking about alternating days for example, or limiting parents to only attending one game every year if the kid is in sports. There are other gems, but this whole thing is based heavily off the suggestions I posted among others. And yes, the desks and lunching restrictions are in there. They talk about not ever letting kids leave their homeroom, but they want classes like band and PE to be reduced in size and be staggered out differently to maintain social distancing. One of the suggestions was to replace recess with things like nature walks so social distancing could be maintained.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Not really.

MO guidelines - masks for kids 2 and up

It's all in here.

Under the nice bullet points. No lies at all. These are the guidelines.

Folks can compare the lists that you presented and that I listed from the CDC.

Not the same, and they'll see it.

I do custodial work at a local elementary school, I'm very familiar with the rooms and their layouts for desks and tables. There is no way this could work, not to mention the other cleaning guidelines. The rooms in this school are pretty good size too, but it just can't work.

If these guidelines were made mandatory, the custodial staff would have to live at the schools to keep up or the schools would simply never open again.

ETA: A number of teachers aren't coming back I fear. Who's going to fill all those extra positions in addition to those who are leaving?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

Yes, it's entirely obvious there is nothing practical whatsoever about them.

So, because someone, somewhere, might break the law, it is all OK for us to go rioting madly now

If we don't at least try to do those things, then the virus will spread fast. If we do try to do those things, then even if things aren't perfect, at least there will be a slower spread, and to fewer individuals.

I'd rather see the virus spreed fast.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I am seeing the same things on my list. There are just more of them on the CDC one.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

I am seeing the same things on my list. There are just more of them on the CDC one.

The two sources are organized completely differently. For example, your source claims that the CDC is telling schools that every child over the age of two must wear a mask at all times. That's absurd isn't it?

Sure it is. It's also not what the CDC guidelines state at all. It's okay; the links are there for everyone to review for themselves and make their own determination. They don't need you and me to quibble.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Not only that, but I have actually been following this one on the ground. This is not the first I've heard of it or the only source.

I've seen the CDC crap, but figured most would simply chuck it out the window because it's a load of unrealistic crap.

No such luck. Yes, I added to the post because it took me a while to backtrack the local stuff I've been tied into as a parent this crap will directly affect.

The only way I tracked down the last bits was through an email exchange I had kept sitting in a folder. It had the relevant links left in it.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

Yes, it's entirely obvious there is nothing practical whatsoever about them.

So, because someone, somewhere, might break the law, it is all OK for us to go rioting madly now

If we don't at least try to do those things, then the virus will spread fast. If we do try to do those things, then even if things aren't perfect, at least there will be a slower spread, and to fewer individuals.

I'd rather see the virus spreed fast.

That is probably because you are equating it to a 'flu that doesn't leave behind scar lesions in vital organs.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

Yes, it's entirely obvious there is nothing practical whatsoever about them.

So, because someone, somewhere, might break the law, it is all OK for us to go rioting madly now

If we don't at least try to do those things, then the virus will spread fast. If we do try to do those things, then even if things aren't perfect, at least there will be a slower spread, and to fewer individuals.

I'd rather see the virus spreed fast.

That is probably because you are equating it to a 'flu that doesn't leave behind scar lesions in vital organs.

Nope not at all; I just do not want to live in a world where my children are afraid of scar lesions in vital organs.

Death is a part of life; I can accept that.

I will not be a willing participant in making fear a part of my children's lives.

a reply to: Gryphon66

It is, but there you are:



Right in the CDC Considerations for Schools doc I linked to.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yep. I linked it above.

What a tiny little graphic though.

ETA: You know that your link is to PJ Media, not the CDC, which offers a ridiculous summary that is completely different from what the CDC document stated.

It's okay Kets. Folks can decide for themselves.

Kids over two must wear masks when in a bus going to school......Are they going to start making kids go to school at two now?

I think that the students stuck with the art teacher all day may enjoy school.