Coronavirus conspiracy theory - let's get the claims straight

a reply to: Phage

Again, I will take the word of Doctors all over the globe before listening to partisan stories or special interest groups. There are hundreds of examples.

www.cbsnews.com...

Turkey's Ministry of Health says the relatively low death toll is thanks to treatment protocols in the country, which involve two existing drugs — the controversial anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine touted by President Trump, and Japanese antiviral favipiravir.

"Doctors prescribe hydroxychloroquine to everyone who is tested positive for coronavirus" Dr. Sema Turan, a member of the Turkish government's coronavirus advisory board, told CBS News. Hospitalized patients may be given favipiravir as well if they encounter breathing problems, she said.

Hydroxychloroquine used by Korea for Covid-19 while US is divided
blogs.timesofisrael.com...

Moreover, the politicization of treatment options would not help Americans, given the fact countries such as Belgium, France and South Korea have used HCQ to treat Covid-19 with a good degree of success.

South Korea was one of the first countries to be hit by the virus after China, reporting its first case on January 20 and peaking by late February, before suddenly tapering off in early March and “flattening the curve.” It also has a comparatively low mortality rate through a combination of testing, tracing, containment and HCQ.

a reply to: infolurker

See, that's the problem.
Some people get better no matter what is, or isn't, done. And some don't.

Without controlled studies there is no way to tell if a treatment is actually effective. Science rather than anecdote. There was an international survey done. As I recall about 30% of doctors thought it worked. I'll see if I can find it.

No comment on the VA hospital study?

a reply to: Phage

For Malaria? so did they get this amount of stick when Doctors were giving it to RA or Lupus patients. Has it even been approved for RA or Lupus? anyway if you don't give the zinc will it do any good anyway?

a reply to: anonentity

Has it even been approved for RA or Lupus?

Yes.

In 1956, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved HCQ for symptoms of lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, particularly skin inflammation, hair loss, mouth sores, fatigue, and joint pain.

www.lupus.org...

anyway if you don't give the zinc will it do any good anyway?

I don't think zinc deficiency is a widespread problem.

a reply to: Phage

Oh, the VA Study where they only treated once the patients were close to death? That VA Study?

Well, the rest of the world sure seem to think it works. Most of the "negative" crap I see usually has the word "Trump" in it related to his mentioning of it.

www.thehindubusinessline.com...

India to export hydroxychloroquine, paracetamol to over 40 countries

India will export 285 million tablets of anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) to 40 countries on a commercial basis, while five million tablets are being gifted to a number of nations to help the world fight Covid-19, a government source has said.

Exports of 500 million tablets of paracetamol to 60 countries have also been approved while 1.32 million tablets are being given for free, the source said on Thursday.

a reply to: infolurker

Cool. Lots of people want to sell something.
I guess that means it works.

Popularity trumps science.

1/ Hydroxychloroquine does need to be taken in the early stages of the disease for it to be effective, zinc also helps. Studies with Hydroxychloroquine given to patients in the latter stages of the disease have shown it to not be effective. Overdoses of Hydroxychloroquine can lead to heart issues, does need to be handled with care as with all medications.

2/ Big Pharma does have some conflicts of interest between funding issues and appropriate care.

3/ In tracking the impacts of covid it would be better to distinguish between confirmed cases and suspected cases. Government funding of the pandemic implications will result in exploitation by some individuals.

5/ The lockdown needs to be done case by case. Try and avoid unnecessary exposure, don't make the response worst than the disease. Some people will overreact as the fear grips them.

6/ I am concerned with how those associated to the Wuhan Lab and gain of function research are trying to control the situation. Deep state and big pharma actors are thick in promoting a narrative not fully supported by the evidence.

8/ Masks do have a place, but also have risks. Wearing a fresh mask for a 1 hour plane trip is good. Constantly wearing the same mask all day does have some risks.

9/ Bill Gates has made his stance on depopulation clear, a dangerous man to the well being of humanity, His vaccination tracking technology and Internet of things is a concern. His inability to fix viruses in an operating system does not provide confidence with fixing viruses in the more complex human body, His basic approach looks to be a survival of the fittest, throw toxic stuff at it to weed out the weak.

10/ The government of China is the biggest threat here. This is where it started and they are doing their best to cover it up. One big conspiracy is where did covid start. Looking through the published research of Shi Zhengli does raise a big red flag. A long history of bat corona viruses and gain of function research. She is not alone in this, but a key player to it all.

a reply to: Phage
Lots of people want to buy something.

There is a difference.

Doesn't mean it works.

a reply to: kwakakev

Studies with Hydroxychloroquine given to patients in the latter stages of the disease have shown it to not be effective.

Are there studies which show that it is effective in the early stages?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: infolurker

Cool. Lots of people want to sell something.
I guess that means it works.

Popularity trumps science.

Aha! Now you are getting it. hydroxychloroquine is generic and has been on the market for over 50 years and cost about 37 cents per pill.

Expect remdesivir to cost thousands of $$.

www.npr.org...

If the price is based just on the cost of making the drug, then a 10-day course of remdesivir should cost about $10, according to the ICER report. (Gilead said results of a recently completed study suggest a five-day course of treatment may be just as effective.)

But if the drug is priced based on the drug's effectiveness, ICER estimates it should cost around $4,500


Cost 10 bucks to make it, sell it to the suckers for $4,500

Ivermectin works as well. Review Data here:

a reply to: kasalt

I heard a new one today that COVID is nothing but a vitamin D deficiency.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Let the sunshine.
The sun shine in.

Where's 5G??? That like top of the corona conspiracy crack-pile!

a reply to: okrian

That's just crazy talk.

Sheesh... what happened to the consensus of science while we look at 70 different vaccines.

a reply to: Phage

In Italy they assembled the results of one hundred and sixty thousand patients getting it for RA or Lupus. Their was one positive without symptoms no deaths or Hospitalizations.

a reply to: Phage

when they claimed it didnt work due to studies I looked it right up

the VA study is the ONLY ONE that is used to prove it doesnt work/ has no value .

the problem is when you actually look at the va study there are some GLARING information that shoots holes in the claim the drug is worthless and even in the study itself.

here is what is in first part of the article about the study

Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.

368 male veterans ... that is an EXTREMELY SMALL sample to use to claim the overall results. In fact i would call the number statistically insignificant given the number with the virus in hospitals , even the VA ones . note they said medical CENTERS (plural).. you could only find 368 cases..common.

About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too,


now using basic HS (or even grade school) math (not common core) out of 100 percent given the drug 28 percent (their claims) died. well that leaves 73 percent (almost 3 times as many) that DIDNT DIE. note they dont give ANY SPECIFIC medical details on those that died (ex how many/severity of the immune medicial compromise) but ZERO info on those that lived. you know like how much improvement or effect it had on them... then they add "22 percent getting the drug plus another one" died too. well same questions as before are not answered along with does the 22 percent fall in the origional 28 percent? say for sake of discussion it is added to... that would make 50 percent died on the drug (with no other info) but 50 percent RECOVERD and may have helped them... HMMM

but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.

notice they said "the differnce between that group and usual care was not cosidered LARGE ENOUGH (my emphisis) TO RULE OUT OTHER FACTORS" so the group was too small to rule out "other factors" for survival but big enough to claim the drug is not effective at all and could be cause of death? you cant have it both ways .

Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.

Um as most experts say if you go on a ventaltor your odds of survival are slim at best.. most dont come off one alive...so this comment is irrelivant in effectiveness of drug because quite frankly your most likely gonna die no matter what ...

Researchers did not track side effects,

yet this is a study that is being said determines the drug(s) are worthless? so in essence the "researchers" didnt do a complete r job and in normal common sense situation their study would be considered worthless... but because "trump man bad" this little thing is overlooked.

but noted a hint that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs.


The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.


Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.

Researchers did not track side effects, but noted a hint that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs.

sorry but science and scientific study isnt noted a hint"... its a claim backed up by FACTS/EVIDENCE... since (as stated above) you didnt track side effects your assertation is WORTHLESS.

The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.

um those "potential serious side effects" are ALREADY KNOWN, something ALL DRUGS HAVE (try reading the warning on say tylonol sometime, you be shocked) but yet doesnt seem to be so important for those that use it for other purposes.

No one ever said this was a cure or that it is guaranteed to work for everyone at all times (NO DRUG EVER MADE makes this claim) .

what is true those trying to either justify the police state tactics, the panic, or "trump bad" only have this clearly (best case) flawed study to hang their hat on (and oh though they do).

but there are multiple continuing studies showing various degrees of effectiveness and show it warrants further research

hell even the FDA has APPROVED it for use in experimental and last resort applications.

lastly i leave with this little tidbit.

I notice when the claims of the left and panic of corvid19 have questions, dont cause panic or even proof it was false the news articles suddenly disappear .

it has happened with "we are short ventilator and people are gonna die", with "we are short bedspace unless we flatten the curve", we have so many deaths we are using refrigerator trucks" as a few examples that now are not even page 10 (if they are around at all).
now even this claim of non effectiveness or using this study of its deadly has fallen out of the news.

whats that tell you

scrounger

a reply to: kasalt

as the saying goes just because its a conspiracy doesnt mean it isnt true.

in alot of your list (sorry too tired to go point by point) is quite true , some have some truth and a few are not true.

the problem is people throw the "conspiracy card" like they do the "race card" to deflect, bully into silence, and/or attempt to hide the truth.

scrounger

a reply to: Phage

Are there studies which show that it is effective in the early stages?

Yeah, infolurker picked it up with Dr Chris Martenson and Peak Prosperity, has been doing a 10/10 in denying ignorance with covid. Was on the ball from the start and keeping up with evolving events.



Does start to talk about the paper at the 15:30 mark. Not quite sure where a link to the actual paper is.

a reply to: scrounger

when they claimed it didnt work due to studies I looked it right up the VA study is the ONLY ONE that is used to prove it doesnt work/ has no value .

Go do a search again you will find several studies from around the world that show that it not only doesn't work the patients also get worse on it.

In fact every time I see someone post a link claiming there is a study that proves it works it wasn't a study. Like one yesterday claiming a doctor from texas has a 100% success rate with everyone they treated with hydroxychloroquine. It wasn't a study. It was a claim and it didn't even say how many people were treated.

Here is a link to an article of the study that started the hydroxychloroquine claimed success
link

There are several studies ongoing into hydroxychloroquine. Actual studies with double blinds and placebos that may show that it works. They may show that it doesn't. Whatever they show it will be far more solid than the info that we have had.