Covid-19 may be killing far more than reported.

Corona is killing people. The elderly and those with pre-existing medical conditions. It's a new virus. It's new deaths. That raises your total.

I'm in agreement with others that deaths due to COVID are being stacked and artificially inflated due to current mandates to test every death and list the virus as the cause on every positive.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Let's say what you're positing is true.

Okay. It's killing people. More people.

Now what?

Do we stay sheltered in place another year?

We're seeing lives lost, but we're also seeing livelihoods lost. You want everyone broke AND dying?

How many businesses must cease to exist?

In 1968 100,000 lives were lost to the novel Hong Kong Flu. A tragedy.

We didn't shutter the economy, the country, business then.

What's your position?

What's your suggestion?

a reply to: jjkenobi

People are saying they inflate the covid figures for more federal funds , they're also saying now they put people on ventilators for more federal funds .

Whose pocket are those " federal funds "
going into ?

originally posted by: SaturnFX
So even if you believe they are inflating the numbers with any given death must be coronavirus, how then can you explain just soo damn many deaths regardless of cause. Why is places like New Jersey peaking at nearly double the normal rate?

People aren't getting cancer treatments or screenings and other lifesaving care, right now. Some of it has been prohibited, some are just too afraid to go in with chest pain, signs of stroke, etc.

And then, of course, when the first choice treatment by hospitals is last-resort ventilators with an 88% death rate, you are bound to see a lot of death.

There are a lot of COVID-19 deaths...but there are also increasing deaths from other life-threatening illnesses and disease.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
And the second bit of with vs of matters not...its not differentiating cause of death, only showing all death is on a mega spike across the board

This is true, the argument about rigged numbers doesn't really apply to these charts because they're showing total weekly deaths. The spike in the charts starts around mid March which matches with the spike of Covid-19 deaths, however it's also around the same time most nations started going into strict lockdowns. What I would really like to see is a chart overlaying the Covid-19 deaths so we can see how much of the spike can be attributed to Covid-19.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Anyhow, take the normal death rate of any year, add in the coronavirus reported deaths, and you are still 50-60% less than the gap...this means either there is a war going on and people are being shot left and right, or covid is far more deadly than the government is letting on (or just not able to test post-mort).

If I understand what you're saying correctly, they basically did what I just said and they found that Covid-19 deaths only account for about half of the spike, so they concluded the death numbers for Covid-19 must be under-reported. I would suggest a much more obvious explanation, which is we are facing a war-like scenario economically. We're seeing economic figures on par with the great recession all around the world and a big rise in depression due to millions of jobs being lost and increased isolation. We've been arguing whether the cure is worse than the disease, well it seems to be about 50/50 based on these figures, assuming the death numbers for Covid-19 aren't be exaggerated, which they most likely are.

originally posted by: DoctorBluechip
If this gets properly loose , which it looks like it has done when Cuomo says 2 million new Yorkers are now carriers , you can kiss goodbye to life as you knew it. Do you think they'd want to tell you that ? That that's what is just round the corner ? Get real this is no joke.

Most of us are likely to catch this virus eventually. It IS inevitable.

The lock-down's purpose is controlling hospital capacity, and despite 26,000 Covid-related deaths, our UK hospitals have coped perfectly well, PPE scandals aside. In fact, they have coped TOO well, many doctors extremely concerned about folks 'hiding' at home and avoiding hospitals despite being seriously ill from other factors. Why? a) They are afraid of contracting the virus from a ward; or b) They don't want to 'interfere' with the Covid emergency, despite plenty of hospital capacity to accommodate them.

Letters have been sent from hospitals this week urging such people to contact their doctor ASAP, or attend A&E (many A&E areas are like ghost towns). So the number of avoidable deaths occurring from such fears is an uncomfortable area to contemplate. That's the UK; I can't speak for other countries, whose mileage will vary. The media must take a lot of responsibility, too, of course.

Basically, my point is that misconceived or misguided perceptions of hospital capacity in the UK are killing people with unrelated illnesses, too. Which is both horribly depressing and bitterly ironic.

a reply to: SaturnFX

So here's my theory, half-baked it may be, but it's a raft of things that are just plain weird.

Firstly, Chinese investment & involvment in the setup of the 5G networks.. UK government had a big tangle over it last year.

Secondly, everyone gets 'read in' on the fact of VHF weapons because of what happened at the US facilities in Moscow & Cuba, and also Brazil I seem to recall.

The lab in Wuhan city researching coronavirus in bats, which was funded by Obama (that seems just too convenient, like someone is trying to make a point by generating an absurd data point - similar to how those Podesta bothers matched the descriptions & e-fit images of the perps who abducted Madeline McCann. It's someone doing us a favour by connecting the data in an absurd way, simply to make us slow thinking non-intelligence types alert to the fact that something very wrong is happening and THERE IS A CONNECTION.

The fact that just about everyone has got Covid-19 it seems, but that only a net average perfect cross-section of the populace becomes ill, and a smaller subset die from it. A real virological effect from a real virus, but I suspect only those with certain genetic identifiers will actually die from it. As in, it's not genetically engineered based on obvious traits such as race or gender, or physical features or pre-existing medical conditions. It's a set of 'random' unsearchable genetic markers which decrees whether that person lives or dies. Might as well call it 'random' but it's not. It's a way of guaranteeing that in every population, in every nation, people are catching it & dying from it, but we don't really know why them, why not them, not without knowing the exact markers to scan for.

What that brings me to is the silly/terrifying feature of the Marvel movies where Thanos caused a 'random' set of characters from that universe, plus a whole bunch of others, like 50%, basically winked out of existence. Thanos saw it as a benevolent gift to nature, or something like that. Which we all know, is pretty much how a subset of the elite also believe with regards to us, overpopulating the planet.

And now, the symptoms. HAARP could quite easily cause symptoms in & of themselves, in particular now that there's a convenient 6 foot spatial referencing sphere surrounding each & every one of us when we're out in public, making us so much easier to track & target. They could be flipping a genetic/virus interdependency switch which then triggers a cascade of symptoms. I think the california wildfires were target practice using another tool from the toolkit, extreme heat. We're now facing extreme virus jacking - perhaps they judder the virus within us at a certain frequency to crack open the little black box of death inside each normal viral envelope. A virus within a virus, primed & ready to be ejected if the targeting tool is trained on you. I'm just spitballing, but they must have some pretty advanced toys by now.

But on the other hand, we mustn't elevate them to the height of gods, because there is one God alone, and with Him beside you, there is no room for fear. I think a huge aspect of this is all about fear. They're flexing their heinous brains for all the world to see, and people are scared. I've been through the fear, but I am now trusting in my Father in Heaven, the Lord of Creation. I don't want to waste my minutes, hours & days being afraid, either of a virus, or of the bastards who use these many methods to hurt, confuse, wound & kill, for their own agenda, which I supposed they have justified to themselves, in so much as it might be a 'they' at all. A loose collective of satanic feudal barons, hopefully they all kick the bucket through in-fighting before the human race loses hope.

Hope will give you courage, courage will give you strength; strength will give you faith, faith will give you heart. Heart will give you love, love will give you All. All is given to us, because we are sons & daughters of Heaven. Don't spend your days in fear, don't over-stress the details. I hate what is happening to us, the way we are manipulated & deceived, but I have to have faith that a better day is coming, because God has stated that it is.

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared."

Have faith friends, as dark as it is, the Lord can still be found. The sun is still dawning & if it can be found, brightening the mindscape of the world of Man, then God's Spirit can still brighten our spirits within us.

"Be still, and know that I am God"

"Today, if you hear His voice, don't harden your hearts, as Israel did when they rebelled..."

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

And then, of course, when the first choice treatment by hospitals is last-resort ventilators with an 88% death rate, you are bound to see a lot of death.

Is there any data on the number of people put on ventilators in NYC? There are mainstream articles popping up now which are finally admitting to the high death rate of the ventilators, yet they are still praising it as the correct procedure despite the absurd death rate.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Good luck trying to reason with those whose minds are already made up. No amount of data will change there minds, but a youtube video that pulls the emotional card and preys to ones cognitive biases will.

This has been a tough discussion. When you point to unsettling statistics about the virus, you are quickly labeled a fear mongeror.

I have been watching the statistics closely since this started getting serious in the US.

The virus has been the leading cause of death in the US for the month of April. While many will make the false claim, the death count is inflated without any data to back up their claim, it is clear especially with tbe information in the OP that the number of COVID-19 are being undercounted.

With that, the next month is going to be interesting. While many want to rush back to work and a sense of normality, I think we arw jumping the gun and will likely see another period of exponential growth that will be much worse given the starting point is 20,000+ people a day vs

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: SaturnFX

Good luck trying to reason with those whose minds are already made up. No amount of data will change there minds, but a youtube video that pulls the emotional card and preys to ones cognitive biases will.

This has been a tough discussion. When you point to unsettling statistics about the virus, you are quickly labeled a fear mongeror.

Meh, when a bunch of their friends and family die once measures are no longer in place, they will think maybe their fringe sources weren't accurate....or most likely blame some random nonsense instead of the pandemic level virus.
I don't really care that much tbh. I got measures in place to protect my parents as best possible, and myself, until we get a decent treatment. That doesn't mean I am going to be a hermit, I am just going to best prepare myself....funny, never considered myself a "prepper", but come to find not, most preppers aren't when tshtf actually happens but it doesn't favor their political leanings.

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: incoserv
So, do I distrust the data?

DAMN RIGHT I DO!

:

Care to offer up an alternative source of mortality rates of states from year to year?

If you want it, go find it yourself.

Me: Here are some sources for the thing I said
You: I don't like your sources as it doesn't confirm my biases
Me: You got alternative sources?
You: ...YOU find it.

thats not how the game is played.

I can show you gravity exists using scientific papers. You may not like said papers and should then refute them with other sources...you can't just demand I find papers that show gravity doesn't exist because you want me to.
Refute it or shaddup...bring something to the table already or see yourself out.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Big wall of text
5g
ppl are getting corona in remote areas with no towers.

there goes that idea.

originally posted by: DoctorBluechip
a reply to: putnam6
Well that's what lockdowns are for .
Let's hope those antibodies all those people are said to have , do the job they're supposed to, too.

Just because they have antibodies showing up , simply does not necessarily mean they won't develop symptoms . We hopefully have about 3 - 6 weeks to find out , if not a couple of years is how long it takes to confirm if a vaccination (exposure to pathogen ) is safe .

LOL I'm supposed to believe that Atlanta Ga a major international hub lockdown just in time when the state was one of the last too lockdown saving millions of lives what a crock.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SaturnFX

Let's say what you're positing is true.

Okay. It's killing people. More people.

Now what?

Do we stay sheltered in place another year?

We're seeing lives lost, but we're also seeing livelihoods lost. You want everyone broke AND dying?

How many businesses must cease to exist?

In 1968 100,000 lives were lost to the novel Hong Kong Flu. A tragedy.

We didn't shutter the economy, the country, business then.

What's your position?

What's your suggestion?

I'm OK with letting the floodgates open and allowing anyone healthy and brave enough to want to risk it do whatever they want. But, it really isn't fair to force vulnerable individuals into hiding without some sort of compensation and assistance if we do that. We can't just say, "Grandma, you aren't allowed out anymore, you can no longer see your grandchildren", without giving them some sort of blankie, treat, soother, incentive to live. Maybe give the vulnerable that $2000 a month and a free Netflix subscription.

originally posted by: seattlerat

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SaturnFX

Let's say what you're positing is true.

Okay. It's killing people. More people.

Now what?

Do we stay sheltered in place another year?

We're seeing lives lost, but we're also seeing livelihoods lost. You want everyone broke AND dying?

How many businesses must cease to exist?

In 1968 100,000 lives were lost to the novel Hong Kong Flu. A tragedy.

We didn't shutter the economy, the country, business then.

What's your position?

What's your suggestion?

I'm OK with letting the floodgates open and allowing anyone healthy and brave enough to want to risk it do whatever they want. But, it really isn't fair to force vulnerable individuals into hiding without some sort of compensation and assistance if we do that. We can't just say, "Grandma, you aren't allowed out anymore, you can no longer see you grandchildren", without giving them some sort of blankie, treat, soother, incentive to live. Maybe give the vulnerable that $2000 a month and a free Netflix subscription.

I'm ok with this...but I also think that people who are healthy and just choose to stay home should be exempt from receiving taxpayer relief funds. They shouldn't live off the backs of others....maybe they'll hold Congress accountable for all the waste and giveaways if they aren't getting any.

a reply to: seattlerat


I think we all could take care of the vulnerable without the "help" of government.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
So, using data and facts, it appears there are far, far more deaths going on around the states (and world) than is being attributed to the virus.

A graph demonstrates the typical mortality rate on any given year, and the highlighted bar is this year soo far.

Now, these are just all deaths, coronavirus, cancer, car accidents, etc. Something happened this year that has spiked the numbers up absurdly high in deaths.

How reported coronavirus deaths compare with deaths above normal
Numbers are from March 8 to April 11, 2020.
AREA PCT. OF NORMAL EXCESS DEATHS − REPORTED COVID-19 DEATHS = GAP
New York City 325% 11,900 − 10,261 = 1,700
New Jersey 172% 5,200 − 2,183 = 3,000
New York (excluding N.Y.C.) 142% 4,200 − 2,425 = 1,700
Michigan 121% 2,000 − 1,391 = 600
Illinois 113% 1,400 − 682 = 700
Massachusetts 120% 1,200 − 686 = 500
Maryland 115% 700 − 207 = 500
Colorado 116% 600 − 274 = 300

So even if you believe they are inflating the numbers with any given death must be coronavirus, how then can you explain just soo damn many deaths regardless of cause. Why is places like New Jersey peaking at nearly double the normal rate?

Anyhow, take the normal death rate of any year, add in the coronavirus reported deaths, and you are still 50-60% less than the gap...this means either there is a war going on and people are being shot left and right, or covid is far more deadly than the government is letting on (or just not able to test post-mort).

I know its popular around these parts to dismiss it because some doctor somewhere said everything is fine

Ya know, for a board who is endlessly going on about how the gubment is trying to kill them for population control or something, you sure look the other way when actual real potentials come up for some meaty conspiracys.

Anyhow, discuss amongst yourselves.
Source
Source 2

Because the hospitals weren't doing "elective" procedures.

Many people think elective procedures means only things like plastic surgery, but it also meant things like brain tumor removal. Basically hospitals have only been doing emergency procedures; a lot of the times the elective procedure can stop something from becoming an emergency ever. By the by, most brain tumor dissections are not considered emergency surgeries. People sometimes live with the brain tumors for 10-20 years before it kills them or they have them removed; other times you think you can wait 10-20 years and you find out that your tumor became cystic and the cyst ruptured and you died as a result. [source; wife had 2 brain tumors removed in two separate brain surgeries, one of which was cystic, and the doctors said it would be an unknown risk to NOT do surgery, how ever, the surgery was still elective.]

As a result, many people are dying at home from things that aren't covid-19. Think about heart attacks for a minute -- they aren't all incredibly painful, sometimes they just feel like a long minor chest pain -- so someone has this long minor chest pain and they are afraid of catching covid-19, so they convince themselves it's not so bad it'll pass, and then they die while they are sleeping.

The cure was worse than the disease. The lock down is what is responsible for the death count not attributed to the Corona.

I got news for you; many more will die from the impending financial doom that's coming. The invisible death toll from the lockdowns and the invisible death toll from being bankrupted by the lockdowns are going to far surpass the death count from Corona Virus.

Our idiots in charge killed more people than would have died if they did nothing. And this is why it's best not to knee jerk because someone used a big number. When talking about big numbers, you have to understand that anything that influences those numbers is also going to result in a big number.

In this case it was trillions of dollars of debt created and hundreds of thousands dead. But that's what everyone kept asking for; nay demanding.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: seattlerat


I think we all could take care of the vulnerable without the "help" of government.

OK, so, we eliminate the government, use the funds that would have gone to a 2nd stimulus package to help care for the vulnerable, and then what? Put you in charge? I'm OK with that, as long as I get to keep the Netflix subscription after the cure is made available on Amazon Prime.

On a serious note, I don't think that (at least not in all areas) enough people care enough about anyone other than themselves to eliminate government assistance for disabled and elderly individuals.

a reply to: SRPrime

That is your uneducated opinion....of course no sources to back your claims. Anecdotal testimonies are not a source.

FYI brain tumor surgery is not 'elective'. People were not dying at a higher rate because they could not get treatment.

a reply to: seattlerat

I never said "eliminate" government, but really, are you someone who thinks we can't handle things without government intervention?