who and what are you going to believe. Big study from Calif. blows covid-19 lethality away

a reply to: daskakik

So you are hating on the hope-mongers as well as the fear-mongers.

I am speaking to false hope mongers who lie using false numbers.

If there is good reason for hope -- and "good" does not include falsehoods -- then no hate.

Kinda hard to have definite numbers when the situation is on-going.

And for many other reasons I have stated.

Why complain about it either way if you are taking it as such?

Because acting upon wrong information almost always means taking the wrong actions which almost always means getting the wrong -- often worse -- results.

a reply to: daskakik

You misunderstood me. Alaska, as in We the People, are done with this crap. The state's authorities and medical "experts" are still saying the state should remain locked down and so on and so forth, but the unrest levels escalated over the past 10 days or so to the point where the state has now realized is cannot remain closed, period. Even Anchorage with our lame-ass "save-the-world-from-itself" mayor realized last week with all the local protests demanding we reopen the city that the narrative is broken and business must go on.

If the state authorities believed padding the numbers a bit more would have helped them sway public opinion, they'd have padded the numbers last week. They didn't do it primarily because, in AK at least, additional numbers wouldn't have changed the public's anger or steered us away from demanding our government either open the state back up or move TF out the way while We the People open it back up.

a reply to: Boadicea
They are all estimates at this point.

Nobody is taking any actions based on the numbers we might come up with. All we are doing is double checking other people's calcs.

a reply to: neutronflux
Those other studies does not make the vid in the OP a study.

You can post as many studies as you like but it doesn't change the flawed number that those 2 doctors used.

Sweden is doing pretty bad and have asked parliament for emergency powers to lockdown.
www.rfi.fr...

The new law gives the government the right to temporarily close businesses, shut down ports and airports, and limit public events. The new law comes in to force on 18 April and will be effective until the end of June.

a reply to: daskakik

Date of your article, Issued on: 16/04/2020 - 19:44

More current articles from Apr 24, 2020

The architect of Sweden's controversially lax coronavirus response says he thinks it's working and that the capital city is already benefiting from herd immunity

Sinéad Baker Apr 24, 2020, 6:46 AM

www.businessinsider.com...

Sweden's strategy has stood out from most of the world

Sweden's approach means that:

Bars, restaurants, and malls are open.
Schools are still open, and parents are required to keep sending their children there.
The government has urged against nonessential travel.
People are encouraged to work from home if they can, stay home if they feel unwell, keep a distance from others in public, and regularly wash their hands.
People over 70 or in a high-risk group are urged to stay home.
The only restrictions are that gatherings of more than 50 people are banned, bars and restaurants can serve only customers who are seated to reduce crowding, and people cannot visit nursing homes.
Sweden's parliament gave the government powers to quickly introduce more restrictions if needed, though they have not yet been used.

Coronavirus: Has Sweden got its science right?
By Maddy Savage
BBC News, Stockholm
24 April 2020 Europe

www.bbc.com...

In Stockholm, the epicentre of the virus so far, cases have largely plateaued, although there was a spike at the end of this week, put down partly to increased testing.
There is still space in intensive care units and a new field hospital at a former conference venue is yet to be used.

Seems not only do you have an agenda. But your willing to hide facts to create false innuendo.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
I did misunderstand because you didn't mention lockdown once in any of your previous posts.

I'm not discussing the merit of opening back up or not. Really makes no difference to me.

a reply to: neutronflux

The powers are there for them to use. They are betting on herd immunity but they are not doing all that well when the stats are adjusted for population.

Norway has 37 deaths per 1M pop and Finland has 34. Sweden has 217. Seems like lockdown has helped their neighbors.
www.worldometers.info...

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: neutronflux
Those other studies does not make the vid in the OP a study.

You can post as many studies as you like but it doesn't change the flawed number that those 2 doctors used.

Sweden is doing pretty bad and have asked parliament for emergency powers to lockdown.
www.rfi.fr...

The new law gives the government the right to temporarily close businesses, shut down ports and airports, and limit public events. The new law comes in to force on 18 April and will be effective until the end of June.

That Sweden article is from 2 weeks ago. They have not locked down.

a reply to: thebtheb

I know, but they felt the need to ask for the power to do so and it doesn't mean that they won't.

That still doesn't change the number of deaths that they have had compared to their neighbors who did lockdown.

a reply to: daskakik

You

The powers are there for them to use

Quote were I said otherwise.
You

Sweden is doing pretty bad and have asked parliament for emergency powers to lockdown.

Meaning what?


Sweden’s healthcare system is handling the situation.

The purpose of a lockdown.

WHY IS CORONAVIRUS LOCKDOWN NECESSARY?

www.gavi.org...

Given the rapid spread of the virus, social lockdown is urgent to bring overall transmission down, and see whether testing followed by isolation could be effective – this is all in an attempt to ‘flatten the curve’ or reduce infections and spread cases out over a longer time frame to avoid overwhelming health systems.

The lockdowns are an “attempt to ‘flatten the curve’ or reduce infections and spread cases out over a longer time frame to avoid overwhelming health systems.”

For Sweden:

They are not overwhelming their healthcare system. That was the main motivation of most lockdowns.

They are not committing economic suicide.

They are developing a herd immunity.

They are not prolonging the inevitable.

They are not waiting on a vaccine that may never come to return to something close to normalcy.

They probably will not see a drastic second wave of Coronavirus 19 like other countries in lockdown.


Sweden is paying the piper now. The world is dragging out the pain.

a reply to: neutronflux
You sure are doing a lot of mental gymnastics.

They did ask for the powers and they are still there for them to use.

Their healthcare system is handling a lot more deaths than their neighbors.

They might be paying the piper now and they might be paying him for some time. Only time will tell.

If they had the population of the US they would be No. 1 in total deaths with 72,402, that is 17,308 more deaths than the US currently has registered but people keep saying they are doing great. Yeah, OK.

a reply to: daskakik

By the way. Norway is natural socially isolated for example. Norway’s population density 38.44 people per square mile. Sweden’s population density 63.74 people per square mile. Finland, 47.22 people per square mile.

m.statisticstimes.com...

Largest city in Sweden by people Stockholm, about 1.5 million people.
en.m.wikipedia.org...

Largest city in Finland, Helsinki. About .7 million.
www.statista.com...

Largest city in Norway. Oslo About 1.0 million. Second largest city, Bergen. Drops to .255 million.

a reply to: carewemust

Your math is off:

983,000 confirmed cases
55,355 deaths

Mortality rate of 5.6%. This will probably go down to 1-3%, as reported in Asia and Italy, once we have more widespread testing.

a reply to: neutronflux

So, their death rate doesn't reflect the small differences in population density or the population of their largest cities.

The difference in deaths is almost 6x that of Norway.

a reply to: daskakik

You

They did ask for the powers and they are still there for them to use.

The powers were appointed around April 14th.

As of April 24th

Sweden's parliament gave the government powers to quickly introduce more restrictions if needed, though they have not yet been used.

www.businessinsider.com...

You

If they had the population of the US they would be No. 1 in total deaths with 72,402, that is 17,308 more deaths than the US currently has registered but people keep saying they are doing great. Yeah, OK.

My first post in this thread????

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: infolurker

USC antibody study shows coronavirus 'far more widespread,' death rate 'much lower'

m.washingtontimes.com...

For about four weeks now, there has been proof the Coronavirus is more widespread than first thought. As a result, the mortality rate is lower than what is being pushed.

I really think Sweden’s approach was the best with no mandatory lockdown.

Am I saying this approach would be right for highly populated New York City, no. For populations not so highly concentrated, yes.

Coronavirus: Has Sweden got its science right?
By Maddy Savage
BBC News, Stockholm

www.bbc.com...

In Stockholm, the epicentre of the virus so far, cases have largely plateaued, although there was a spike at the end of this week, put down partly to increased testing.

www.abovetopsecret.com...




What I find strange. The lockdown closed most things. Supposedly the virus is highly contagious. But most things open are large grocery stores and large hardware stores were most of the populations have concentrated their shopping? So we are concentrating were people are shopping during an outbreak of a highly contagious virus?

What was Sweden’s logic again?

Sweden queries basis of lockdowns as Germany keeps its guard up
Looser regime means Sweden is better placed to face second wave, says chief epidemiologist
Coronavirus – latest updates
See all our coronavirus coverage
Jon Henley Europe correspondent
@jonhenley
Fri 24 Apr 2020 10.29 EDT

www.theguardian.com...

As several European countries continued to cautiously lift lockdowns, sending children back to school and reopening some shops and businesses, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, said their original measures looked difficult to justify.

Skip

The epidemiologist added: “Lockdowns, closing of border … Nothing has a historical scientific basis, in my view. We have looked at a number of EU countries to see whether they published any analysis of the effects of these measures before they started, and we saw almost none.”

a reply to: daskakik

I would think a more fair comparison, and more scientific, would be cities of about equal population, population density, and age distribution.

Is that a false statement

a reply to: daskakik

You

So, their death rate doesn't reflect the small differences in population density or the population of their largest cities.

Small difference?

Sweden at 63.74 people per square mile vs Norway’s population density of 38.44 people per square mile is a small difference?

The largest city in Norway has 500,000 less people than the largest city in Sweden? Or the largest city in Sweden has a third more people than the largest city in Norway is a small difference. Can I have a third of your paycheck if it’s no small difference?

a reply to: neutronflux
You brought up the differences, small as they were. I just pointed out that those differences don't offset the differences in the deaths each of those countries are seeing.

As for your previous post. Seems like re-infection with CV-19 is being seen, so herd immunity might not be a good strategy. Maybe it is, at this point nobody really knows.

As for people being concentrated, From what I have seen they are not allowed in without face-masks, they are forced to apply sanitizer upon entry and only a certain number of people are allowed in at a time to allow for distancing. Does it work out as planned? Not always but where I am at there is a certain amount of compliance by the shoppers.

Where it wasn't working, the farmers market in my town, the city closed them down because the vendors got uppity.

originally posted by: thebtheb
No it's quite the opposite with flu deaths. Almost all pneumonia deaths are logged as a flu death.

I don't think so... but prove me wrong...

a reply to: neutronflux

Yes, small when compared to the number of deaths.

1.65 difference in population density and 1/3 more people in the largest city doesn't compare to the 6 times the number of deaths.

If they had a 33.3% higher death toll then those numbers might be significant.