USA & Israel's Ugly Past - Did You Forget They Are State Sponsors of Terror?

your classmate got killed by a bulldozer ? wow, you knew her....

her parents are suing caterpillar !

I see insanity all over this one.....

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oops,

do you agree or disagree with her actions ?

do you agree or disagree with the parents suing ?

Ever since the discovery of vast, almost unimaginable oil reserves in the region, the overriding strategic objective of the United States in the Middle East has been access to and eventual control over that resource. And since its 1967 victory in the six-day war, when Israel established itself as the regional military superpower capable of aiding in this primary U.S. objective, massive U.S. foreign aid and subsidized weapons of war have ensured an Israeli-U.S. alliance with mutually expansionist agendas. Both want unfettered access to Arab oil and more.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Nice one - when Israelis are indiscriminantly killed (regardless if they are Jews, Arabs, Mulsim, Christians, Druze or other wize by Palestinians who have made a strategy of targeting civilian populations) it is called by you 'getting killed' . But when Palestinians are killed in combat its called murder. Someone is a bit biased don't you think?

i don't see what difference it makes to someone who's dead whether i say killed or murdered. they were all killed and murdered. i don't condone any of it.
you are trying to make me look like i have a bias. i do, but it's not the mark you're trying to paint on me.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
This is not a numbers game.

i call it war. it is a numbers game. ask any neandrathal.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi So here is another example of how Israeli respect civilian life while the Palestinians target civilians.

i saw the pictures of the respect. there IS a real world, you know(at least, that's the illusion).
the site i linked to was israeli. like america, israel is a victim of extreme right wing fascism. not all jews are proud of israel's behaviour. these monochrome paintbrushes have GOT to go, if we're to start acting like humans, instead of jackals.
sanity is my bias. i want the world to be sane. is that wrong?

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
or how about this - transfer of populations - clear out some of the Jewish settlements in the west bank and gaza and clear out some of the Palestinians/Arab towns/cities in Israel/Palestinian territory. build a wall to separate the Palestinians from the Jews.

i favour integration. i'm just like that.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbiAs for the protocols, it is a bunch of crap. If there is a bit of truth to it - it cannot be attributed to the Jews since the Jews are far from being in control.

many would disagree. media is mind control. usury is slavery.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Had they Jews have been in control Israel would have encompassed the entire middle east, the Sinai would have not been returned to Egypt, Israel would have had lands with oil reserves and the media would have nothing to say. Despite this Israel is the size of New Jersey with no Oil, no significant natural resources and aside from the US, no real allys. So lets try to be realistic when talking about ZOG or the Protocols.

you don't understand my stance. my stance is that there are no 'jews', or 'americans', or 'royalty' or 'popes'. but, that there is a blueprint for the methods of controlling the populace through belief systems. anything that is written down is propoganda. written language is a machine. it is a collective unconscious. bias is inherent in language. we are all programmed from birth by our enviroment, which is a fading, obsolete legacy.

what these elders haven't glommed onto, in my opinion, is the effects of technology on society. we are our enviroments, and our enviroments are multitude. cell phone enviroments, radio enviroments, print enviroments, time/space enviroments, political enviroments, television enviroments, sattelite enviroments. these things are intimately connected with the constant shifting paradigms of the 'modern' world.

anyway, hypothetically speaking,would you wish for peace and territory for everyone based on humanitarianism, or divisive policies based on faith?

[edit on 19-3-2005 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob
you don't understand my stance. my stance is that there are no 'jews', or 'americans', or 'royalty' or 'popes'. but, that there is a blueprint for the methods of controlling the populace through belief systems. anything that is written down is propoganda. written language is a machine. it is a collective unconscious. bias is inherent in language. we are all programmed from birth by our enviroment, which is a fading, obsolete legacy.

Best thing I've read in a long time

Billybob
I was told not to quote excessively so Billybob this buds for you:

Nicely said - one problem - this is not only true for religions (if that is what you meant). It is also true for Capitalism, democracy, Communism, or any philosophy of life. Anarchy is also a belief system. Religion may be fading obselete in your view but look at the fundamentalist muslims, Jews and Christians who live day-in and day-out with their belief system - for them it is far from fading and this is OK so long as it is tolerant.
Science is also becoming a religion or a belief system. Evolutionists are turning a blind eye to the physical evidence that contradict the evolutionary theory.

I think that having a belief system is a universal phenomenon that is unique among the higher beings (Humans and above).

Integration is not a possibility neither the Americans nor communist Russia succeeded with this. What is gravely lacking is tolerance of different opinions - Maybe through education on tolerance on a world wide scale can we acheive integration and subsequently world peace. But this will still be a tool in the hands of the elitists for control.


[edit on 19/3/05 by JudahMaccabbi]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
...this is not only true for religions (if that is what you meant). It is also true for Capitalism, democracy, Communism, or any philosophy of life. Anarchy is also a belief system. Religion may be fading obselete in your view .....

exactly. all are belief systems. it is the belief systems that war with one another. we are pawns.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Science is also becoming a religion or a belief system. Evolutionists are turning a blind eye to the physical evidence that contradict the evolutionary theory.

i totally agree. it's downright unscientific. the 'peer review' process has become the 'brownshirt and dogmatize' process. ask pons and fleischman, or lofti zadeh. luckily, you can't keep a good truth down, because truth exists in the real world, in fact it IS the real world, and lies only exist in our minds.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Integration is not a possibility neither the Americans nor communist Russia succeeded with this. What is gravely lacking is tolerance of different opinions - Maybe through education on tolerance on a world wide scale can we acheive integration and subsequently world peace. But this will still be a tool in the hands of the elitists for control.

by integration, i do mean tolerance. people should be free to believe what they want, and free to walk in one another's presence without losing a body part. building physical walls only serves to compund problems, in my opinion. this is cliche, but building bridges is far superior.
people are being steered by the mysterious powers of the universe, to concentrate, accentuate, exaggerate, and eliminate each others differences. this is obviously futile, and any succesful attempts would render us unhuman.
we need to focus on survival as a species based on what we have in COMMON, and stop focusing on 'competition'.
we have many big problems in common. the first, in my opinion, and the only REAL one, is communication.
it is the primary focus of 'the adversary' to disrupt and control communication, same as it ever was.

cheers, this molson's for you.

remember the uss liberty ?

that ship got all shot up by the jews !

I know why neither side told the world the truth , but do you know why it got shot up ?


a recap of the two b.s. excuses used

usa = the ship was there to lend assistance to any americans who may need it

israel = the ship was mistaked for an egyptian spy ship..."Liberty resembles the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir." etc, etc...
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omg...what a bunch of crap...the dog n pony show put up by the usa over this one was a real peach....there's not one website with the "whole truth" on it . they nitpick on little details about the shape of the ship. and flags etc...
the true story has yet to hit the web...what a freaking joke...

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Billybob,

, for that comment about us being played by our language etc...

I'd vote ya way above but I'm out of votes

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi So here is another example of how Israeli respect civilian life while the Palestinians target civilians.

i saw the pictures of the respect. there IS a real world, you know(at least, that's the illusion).
the site i linked to was israeli. like america, israel is a victim of extreme right wing fascism. not all jews are proud of israel's behaviour. these monochrome paintbrushes have GOT to go, if we're to start acting like humans, instead of jackals.
sanity is my bias. i want the world to be sane. is that wrong?

I disagree with you here on the following issues:
Israeli is not in control by right wing facists but the Arab world. The official Arabs worlds Media depicts Jews like this:
memri.org...
memri.org...
Coptic christian treatment:
memri.org...
and this is judt a few examples.

What is facism?
fascism
n. dictatorial system of government characterized by extreme nationalism and right-wing authoritarian views

Well the US and Israel are democracies. All the Arab states are not they are dictatorships.
Palestinian desire and current strategy to eliminate Israel is well documented. Is that not right wing?
HAving Mein Kampf become a best seller in the Arab world is not right-wing authoritarian views?
The elimination of the Christian majority of Lebanon by the Muslims is not right wing?
The Arab countires are the TRUE Facist States. Yet you single out the US and Israel and use a wrong term to describe these countries when it is the farthest from the truth.

You say media is mind control I say, true, media is mind controll but in free countries information is available from all spectrums of the political arena. In facist states such as Iran, Syria, Egypt, Palestinian authority, Saudi Arabia, Saadam era Iraq no such papers are available - only the gov't word. Therefore I still say Facism currently exists in the Arab world not in the US or Israel.

anyway, hypothetically speaking,would you wish for peace and territory for everyone based on humanitarianism, or divisive policies based on faith?

This is not an issue of faith there are Arab Christians as well as Muslims on both sides of the conflict. This is an issue of culture and tolerance. If there is no tolerance between the sides and they are kiling each other because one is Palestinian and the other is Israeli then you need to separate the two. Culturally the two sides have become incompatible when Palestinian TV airs day and night that Martyrdom is necessary against Israelis, that Jews are decendants of Dogs and Pigs and that terrorists who kill schoolchildren are heros.
There is very little humanitarianism in the Arab world - so what is your point. Giving Palestinians all of Israel so that they can feel good about themselves. That is what they want - don't kid youself.
israelnationalnews.com...


[edit on 19/3/05 by JudahMaccabbi]

[edit on 19/3/05 by JudahMaccabbi]

Billybob this Heiniken is for you:

Good arguement but you first need to have a listening audience. We can build all the bridges we'd like but if the other side shoots at everyone coming across you will not get anywhere. Therefore, build a fence first and after the dust settles you can build bridges. Remember we are talking philosophy and in the meanwhile people are getting killed.

Therefore out of a humanitarian need separate the two populations and then have them bridge the gaps. But it will still be two separate countries but with a symbiotic relationship - That can't be bad.

Juddah,

I can't find any evidence to back up your claim on the murder of that man. And I highly doubt you would just wake up to a man trying to blow himself up and stand causally around him talking into walkie talkies.

Can you have any sources to prove yourself?

OOPS

no comment , eh ?

Originally posted by 00PS
Juddah,

I can't find any evidence to back up your claim on the murder of that man. And I highly doubt you would just wake up to a man trying to blow himself up and stand causally around him talking into walkie talkies.

Can you have any sources to prove yourself?

I already linked you to the official Israeli version of the story But it is as plain as day. The sapper it there struggling with the terrorist before they shoot him. Why would a sapper be called in before he is 'murdered' as you say? The sapper it there because the terrorist is carrying a bomb belt which is visible in the last 3 frames and you see the sapper before the terrorist is killed. The pictures in the Palestinian propaganda link is all the information you need. Anyone not clouded by hate and/or anti- sentiment can clearly see this - right there - in the heart of the Propaganda page.

I already linked you to the official Israeli version of the story

-- I don't want Israeli lies.

But it is as plain as day.

--The only thing Plain as Day is Israel killing Palestinian Children and Unarmed men

The sapper it there struggling with the terrorist before they shoot him.

--The unarmed Palestinian man is bound hands behind his back.

Why would a sapper be called in before he is 'murdered' as you say?

The sapper it there because the terrorist is carrying a bomb belt which is visible in the last 3 frames and you see the sapper before the terrorist is killed.

-- Here are the pictures again, please show me this bomb belt that isn't there.

The pictures in the Palestinian propaganda link is all the information you need. Anyone not clouded by hate and/or anti- sentiment can clearly see this - right there - in the heart of the Propaganda page.

--Any pictures by Palestinians or Independent bodies are propaganda to you right? So what makes Israeli or ADL info any more credible?

How about Moses coming back to life and telling you Zionist Jews are terrorists, would that be enough for ya?

I'm hosting them from my server so they won't get edited out by staff again.

OOPS I'll hand it to you - You know how to post - Pictures and everything - Snazzy!

I guess in you views Israelis Lie and Palestinians do not lie -
OK Lets make it simple and I'll write real slow.

DO YOU SEE THE SAPPER IN THE 4TH STILL? HE IS THE DUDE WITH ALL THE FUNKY PROTECTIVE GEAR (HELMET & FLACK JACKET) - HE IS HOLDING THE TERRORISTS HANDS. HE IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE. NOTE - NO-ONE ELSE HAS THIS KIND OF GEAR. THIS IS A SAPPERS GEAR! HE IS THE SAPPER! HE IS CALLED IN TO NEUTRALIZE A BOMB LIKE BOMB BELTS. THE BLACK THING TO THE LEFT OF THE TERRORIST BY HIS BODY IS THE BOMB BELT. NOTE IN FRAME 4 YOU SEE THE BLCK THING BETWEEN THE POLICE OFFICER HOLDING HIS LEGS AND THE THE TERRORISTS RAISED ARM. IT IS JUST BARELY VISIBLE FROM THE ANGLE OF THE PICTURE.

DO YOU AGREE THAT THIS IS A SAPPER?
IF NOT HERE IS A PICTURE OF ISRAELI SAPPERS:
www.smh.com.au...
ALTHOUGH THE PICTURES YOU POSTED ARE FUZZY YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE BULK FLACK JACKET AND THE HELMET.

NOW IF THAT IS A SAPPER DO YOU AGREE HE IS THERE FOR A REASON OF DISMANTLING A BOMB?
I ASSUME THAT LOGIC SAYS YES.
THEREFORE WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING.
1-A SAPPER HOLDING THE TERRORISTS HANDS UP TRYING TO DISTANCE HIM FROM THE FLOOR.
2- SAPPER IS THERE TO DISMANTLE A BOMB.

QUESTION IS ASKED - IS IT NECESSARY TO KILL THE MAN IN ORDER TO DISMANTLE THE BOMB.

MY ANSWER I DO NOT KNOW I WAS NOT THERE. OFFICIAL ISRAELI STORY SAYS YES.

I DO KNOW THAT APPREHENDING A SUICIDE BOMBER ALIVE IS A GREAT INTELLIGENCE ASSET SINCE HE CAN SHED LIGHT ABOUT HIS RECRUITMENT, HIS OPERATOR, HIS TRAINING, WHO SUPPLIED HIM THE BELT, HOW HE GOT THE BELT ACROSS CHECKPOINTS., WHO HIS CONTACTS ARE ETC ETC ETC. THEREFORE IF ISRAEL WANTED TO SIMPLE SCRUB PALESTINIANS OUT WHY NOT SCRUB OUT HIS FRIEND TOO - NO HE IS RELEASED (!) WHY WOULD THOSE MURDEROUS ISRAELIS DO THAT? NOT TO LEAVE WITNESSES THINKS THE ANIT-ISRAELI - WELL IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET? NO WITNESSES? I THINK THIS REASON IS NOT THE LOGICAL CHOICE. OK HOW ABOUT TO DISTANCE HIM FROM THE BOMB SO THAT HE DOES NOT GET HURT.
IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THE LINK YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT THE LINK I PROVIDED GAVE BOTH THE PALESTINIAN PROPAGANDA CRAP AND THE ISRAELI SIDE TOO.

IF THE ISRAELI POLICE WOULD HAVE EXCECUTED A PALESTINIAN CIVILIAN AS SUGGESTED BY THE PALESTINIAN PROPAGANDA MACHINE, THE ISRAELI LEFT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT ARMS ESPECIALLY SINCE IN 2002 ARIEL SHARON WAS IN OFFICE AND THE ISRAELI LEFT WILL DO ANYTHING IN ITS POWER TO RETURN TO GOVERNMENT.


NOTE - FRAME 5 THE BELT TO THE LEFT STILL THERE. NOTE FROM FRAME 6 ROBOT IS HANDLING THE BOMB AND NO MORE BLACK BULKY ITEM TO THE LEFT OF THE TERRORIST - THAT IS BECAUSE THE BOMB BELT (BLACK ITEM) WAS MOVED BY THE ROBOT.

AND HERE IS THE CLINCHER: ACCORDING TO A PALESTINIAN HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH HE IS ON THE LIST AS A SUICIDE BOMBER AFFILIATED WITH Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
www.phrmg.org...

I checked your links out.

You could be right about this instance, that he had a bomb.

Still doesn't explain why police executed him.

I guess that's not really Terror now is it, it's more like Nazis.

The police are police, judge and executioner.

Speedy Speedy Gets the Job Done Easy



And I don't believe lies for fun..You accuse me of only listening to the Palestinian side.

I listen to all sides, but listening to you Judah is like listening to someone trying to suck up to some intelligence agent in hopes of getting a Mossad job.

Tow the line...tow the line...


P.S. you can apply to mossad online.... need the link?

OOps I just think you are afraid of being proven wrong - AGAIN.

OK, it was a terrorist and OK he was carrying a bomb belt and OK the Sapper was struggling with him but why did they have to shoot him? The poor guy all he wanted was to get 72 virgins in the after-life does that mean he needs to be killed.

Well, like, YEAH! He has a bomb belt. He intends on killing himself. So what do we do let him and take some others with him? Or do kill him to save others?

HMMMM.

Oh I know. We can call in a Judge from nearby and get the terrorist a lawyer. Have a trial right there and then while policemen are sitting on him and restricting his movement. Then we can get him off on a police brutality claim.
Oh and better than that - We can call in some Jews from Jerusalem and let him blow himself up with all those Jewish civilians just so he can feel good about himself. Then we can have an Itbah el Yehood party (look that one up).

I think that we are forgetting that he was trying to KILL PEOPLE.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
DO YOU AGREE THAT THIS IS A SAPPER?

NOW IF THAT IS A SAPPER DO YOU AGREE HE IS THERE FOR A REASON OF DISMANTLING A BOMB?
I ASSUME THAT LOGIC SAYS YES.
THEREFORE WE HAVE THE FOLLOWING.
1-A SAPPER HOLDING THE TERRORISTS HANDS UP TRYING TO DISTANCE HIM FROM THE FLOOR.
2- SAPPER IS THERE TO DISMANTLE A BOMB.

QUESTION IS ASKED - IS IT NECESSARY TO KILL THE MAN IN ORDER TO DISMANTLE THE BOMB.

I agree he is a Sapper, but answer me this... If he was being controlled and arrested - AND HE WAS STRAPPED WITH A BOMB - Why did he not detonate?

And if there was a need to have a Sapper brought it (for any other reason other than a cover-up) ... Why would all the un-protected Israeli soldiers stand around, surely there would be a risk of the explosives being detonated...

And if the Sapper dismantled the bomb, Why would a robot be brought in after that?

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The evidence doesn't add up to anything other than SS style brutality, and an Israeli cover-up!

Wassup GS nice to see you in tha house.

Yeah, I second his doubting you. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and then to ask you about the Naziness of executing him there.

This man will have no imprisonment or rehabilitation? Straight execution by paramilitary forces in the street.

This is not justice. This is Terror.

Return of the third reich.

This makes me Sick. That an Israeli will justify Nazi tactics here on a bbs.

Juddah, I'm not afraid to be wrong.

The Topic of this Post is ISRAEL AND USA ARE STATE SPONSORS OF TERROR IN THE PAST - have you proved me wrong?

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
I agree he is a Sapper, but answer me this... If he was being controlled and arrested - AND HE WAS STRAPPED WITH A BOMB - Why did he not detonate?

I do not know why he didn't detonate. Maybe at first he was afraid to kill his friend - then after the police released his friend he was already handcuffed. His detonator was on his chest and he was struggling to detonate when on the floor. Had he have been controlled the GSS would have apprehended him and got a wealth of intelligence info from him.
I think that is clear - Suicide bombers are more valueable to the Israeli security services alive then dead.

And if there was a need to have a Sapper brought it (for any other reason other than a cover-up) ... Why would all the un-protected Israeli soldiers stand around, surely there would be a risk of the explosives being detonated...

Didn't we go thorugh this already? The sapper cannot hold him and dismantle the bomb at once. We see the sapper holding him aanother restraining his legs, one holding aout a gun probably trying to coax the terrorist into easing off, another preparing to pull out his sidearm as well. The other security personnel are approaching the scene assessing what to do. I see a tense scene not a casual - HEY lets kill an innocent Palestinian scene as y'all like to depict.

And if the Sapper dismantled the bomb, Why would a robot be brought in after that?

Maybe because he wasn't able to dismantle the bomb. Therefore the robot was called in after the terrorist was shot. HELLO!!!

The evidence doesn't add up to anything other than SS style brutality, and an Israeli cover-up!

Your interpretation of the evidence is wrong
But then there is another side to this - if your goal is to bash-Israel relentlessly then no amount of evidence contradictory to your goal would help - this is called blind hatred and is in itself a virulent bias that contributes to much violence.

Originally posted by 00PS

This man will have no imprisonment or rehabilitation? Straight execution by paramilitary forces in the street.

This is not justice. This is Terror.

Return of the third reich.

This makes me Sick. That an Israeli will justify Nazi tactics here on a bbs.

Imprisonment Rehabilitation? Are you serious prisons these are total opposites. Prisons are the breading groud of extremism. That doesn't mean that everything should be done to resolve the problem with no loss of life. But I trust the Israeli Polices Judgement - Better kill a terrorist when it is clear that his intent is to kill then have him blow-himself up with additional casualties.

The return to the third reich is only in your imagination - No Nazi tactics here - Only anti-Israel propaganda.

By the way If we all agree that Mahmoud Salah was an attempted suicide bomber - that would mean that the caption of frame 6 is a lie. That would prove (once again) that palestinian propaganda machine is a big game of lies. Just as the Jenin 'massacre'.