The Anti-Christian conspiracy

If you live in a corrupt and unjust nation the problems aren't your fault but the leaders. Even if you elected that leader he still has the power to change policies to equitable ones.

We, mankind, continued to elect satan as the worlds ruler untill God decided to stay out of the election long enough to give us all understanding of the ultimate end of that rulership.

Individually we all can do our best with the choises available under this worldly government but because of corruption we can't fix everything. That's what Christ will do at His return.

Unless we can control the weather, keep the earths crust from leaking the contents underneath, provide food and shelter without any death or destruction, prevent all physical harm from happening, etc. man cannot be granted enough peace and security to not hurt, want, fear and war.

Under God's rule this will all happen and we will enjoy the peace needed to express perfect love to all. In the meantime we can only do our best, which is far from good enough yet still God offers us total forgiveness for all our failings under the despot, satan.

Why blame God for not running during for an election we already decided against Him when He cares enough to go and gather a willing army that will oust the despot and his followers forever and have a personal share in the victory. He could do it all, all Himself but then wouldn't we resent His supreem power again like we did in the beginning and still do?

Can you at least concider this mortal explaination of a devine plan. In the world you know it makes sence, in the world to come we will fully understand it all.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
my honest view of evil is that it stems from humanity, not some external boogy man.

so stop using satan as a scapegoat, and tell people to take responsibility for what they've done to the world.

please?

I agree we need to take responsibility for our actions. That's a totally mature approach. The devil doesn't "make" you do it, he's just an advisor.

Originally posted by spamandham
The same people thumping Bibles in unison every Sunday

I must'a missed that Sunday. That's a funny picture.

Originally posted by spamandham
and fooling themselves into thinking faith is the ultimate virtue, while trying to coerce the 10 commandments into the center of the public square, will callously euphemize children and other innocents murdered in war as 'casualties'. What a bunch of fricken hypocrits.

Hey, I wonder where I heard about hypocrisy in the faith. I remember now! Jesus. Looks like you and he have that in common. Well, in order to have hypocrites, you've gotta have people who are doing it right.

Originally posted by spamandham
Enki, er um, I mean Satan has a special pit set asside for them, 100 degrees hotter than the apostate pit.

Wait wait wait, you bark at me for a fire and brimstone speech? Maybe we should revisit our views on hypocrisy.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by spamandham
Enki, er um, I mean Satan has a special pit set asside for them, 100 degrees hotter than the apostate pit.

Wait wait wait, you bark at me for a fire and brimstone speech? Maybe we should revisit our views on hypocrisy.

...just a bit of poetic license, nothing serious.

Originally posted by saint4God

Hey, I wonder where I heard about hypocrisy in the faith. I remember now! Jesus. Looks like you and he have that in common. Well, in order to have hypocrites, you've gotta have people who are doing it right.

where did i hear about hypocrisy in religion before jesus was alive...

OH WAIT it was some guy named Siddhartha aka Buddha.

sorry, jesus wasn't really all that inovative ...

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
where did i hear about hypocrisy in religion before jesus was alive...

OH WAIT it was some guy named Siddhartha aka Buddha.

sorry, jesus wasn't really all that inovative ...

Buddha said that those who would not follow Christ are hypocrites? Wow, didn't think Buddha believed in Christ. That's interesting.

no, he did speak out against the caste system and how its hypocritical
what i'm trying to say, so here's your que to twist my words again, is that jesus didn't have as many new ideas as people thought. they were around hundreds of years before him, and he wasn't all that special.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
no, he did speak out against the caste system and how its hypocritical
what i'm trying to say, so here's your que to twist my words again, is that jesus didn't have as many new ideas as people thought. they were around hundreds of years before him, and he wasn't all that special.

Candidly, it looks like you're playing games on these threads without regard to serious discussion so I thought I'd play along. In all fairness, you twisted my words first. I specifically said "the faith" in reference to Christianity.

Originally posted by saint4God
I wonder where I heard about hypocrisy in the faith

You took it out of context to template it onto another religion. But let's suppose I said "in any faith". As opposed to your quote about Bhuddism, Jesus was not talking about castes systems. He was talking about those who profess to believe versus those who do believe. Does Bhuddism believe that by believing/trusting you are saved or do you have to do something to be saved?


[edit on 20-12-2005 by saint4God]

there is no being saved, only being enlightened. you cannot achieve this through reliance on anyone but yourself, though those you meet on the way there can help. you have to realize THE truth. a truth that one must acquire through thought, not faith. there is no trust in something to save you, for only you can save yourself.

need anything clarified saint?

Originally posted by saint4God
Does Bhuddism believe that by believing/trusting you are saved or do you have to do something to be saved?

Is not the act of believing or trusting in something an action in and of itself?

To convert and change one's beliefs certain actions are needed are they not?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
you cannot achieve this through reliance on anyone but yourself, though those you meet on the way there can help. a truth that one must acquire through thought, not faith. there is no trust in something to save you, for only you can save yourself.

need anything clarified saint?

Perfect. That's the exact answer I was looking for. Jesus says the opposite. You have to believe/trust in him, and there's nothing you can earn your way into heaven. "He who believes(trusts) has everlasting life." - John 6:47 It's clear to me Jesus didn't template Bhuddism as previously claimed, and is quite a bit innovative for the times.


[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
Is not the act of believing or trusting in something an action in and of itself?

I don't think so. You're not acting, you're believing. One can have the ability to believe/trust without thinking or acting. No amount of introspective thinking or acquisition can make a person saved in Christ. I can know all I want about Jesus, that won't make me saved. I can ponder God's universe all I want, but that won't save me either. I can be the most learned person in the world, yet still miss the mark to get to heaven. "You believe that there is one God? Good! Even the demons believe that - and shutter!" - James 2:19. Even the devil and demons know who Jesus is, but they're not going to be in heaven.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
To convert and change one's beliefs certain actions are needed are they not?

Again, I don't think so, but we may have different root definitions here.

Here's the one I'm using:

Main Entry: ac·tion
Pronunciation: 'ak-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : the initiating of a proceeding in a court of justice by which one demands or enforces one's right; also : the proceeding itself
2 : the bringing about of an alteration by force or through a natural agency
3 : the manner or method of performing: a : the deportment of an actor or speaker or his expression by means of attitude, voice, and gesture b : the style of movement of the feet and legs (as of a horse) c : a function of the body or one of its parts
4 : an act of will
5 a : a thing done : DEED b : the accomplishment of a thing usually over a period of time, in stages, or with the possibility of repetition

www.m-w.com...

Now that you mentioned it madnessinmysoul, there is something you can clarify for me. What is the eightfold path of Buddha?


[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

Saint4God, I know this sounds blasphemous, and I do believe in Christ as God incarnate, the savior of my soul, but I can't help to throw Madnessinmysoul a question:

If man created god, who created man?


Of course, I know God created everything. But the only answer to such a question is "evolution" but that is just a theory invented to "raplace" God with self as god.

Fromabove

Originally posted by Fromabove
Saint4God, I know this sounds blasphemous...

It don't sound blasphemous to me friend, sounds like a legit question. Go ahead madness...

Unless we can control the weather, keep the earths crust from leaking the contents underneath, provide food and shelter without any death or destruction, prevent all physical harm from happening, etc. man cannot be granted enough peace and security to not hurt, want, fear and war.

Under God's rule this will all happen and we will enjoy the peace needed to express perfect love to all. In the meantime we can only do our best, which is far from good enough yet still God offers us total forgiveness for all our failings under the despot, satan.

Yes Suzy, but GOD has given man the power to do all the above. It is up to man to decide his fate. We could do all that you listed above plus much more when man learns that there are truly no divisions based on race, religion, boundaries, etc.

GOD empowered man and gave man all the tools necessary to take care of any problem. However, man must wake up to the fact that we are one. If one thinks Christ is going to step in and fix the mess why should he? We have the means, but too many are concerned about making someone out different for us to work together.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Yes Suzy, but GOD has given man the power to do all the above. It is up to man to decide his fate. We could do all that you listed above plus much more when man learns that there are truly no divisions based on race, religion, boundaries, etc.

While I do realize this was the premise behind Bill And Ted's Excellent Adventure, I'm not so sure that makes it true.

If we cast off all divisions based on race (I agree, that would be nice), religion (meaning everyone recognizes the Truth, or we completely rebel against God), boundaries (one world government), etc. (?) suddenly there wouldn't be any suffering, no starvation, total peace and immortality? I'm not so sure I see the logical jump there...

Of course, I know God created everything. But the only answer to such a question is "evolution" but that is just a theory invented to "raplace" God with self as god.

Just a theory? Hmmm..I think one needs to look up the definition of theory. The "theory" of evolution comes from millions upon millions of hours of scientific study. It hardly replaces GOD.

Now creationism? Hmmm...can't even make the word "theory". It is nothing but "faith". One needs to check that definition out also. It doesn't have enough facts to make the word "theory".

Man and all creatures evolved from what GOD gave us on this planet to evolve with or from. We continue to evolve today into a bunch of sniveling, whining, people that don't want to be offended, don't want to look at facts, and wants the "my way or the highway" syndrome to always hold true.

Originally posted by Fromabove
If man created god, who created man?

I know this wasn't asked of me, but I'm going to answer anyway.

1. Your concept of god
2. Aliens created men, and the aliens have a complete record of their own evolution beginning with base compounds.
3. Men from the future invent time machines and return to create the seeds of their own existence.
4. All life on earth spontaneously assembled simultaneously by pure chance, including the fossil record
5. There is in fact a god of sort, but the universe is an emination from him that he is not even aware of
6. Our entire universe is a dream for some unimaginably intelligent (but finite) being (shhh! don't wake him up!)
7. Nothing actually exists. Therefor there is nothing to prevent everything from existing, including men.
8. You live in a matrix of some kind and none of this is real. The matrix is eternal (another variant of the nonpersonal creator concept)

I make no claim that this list is exhaustive.

Aight, I think I'm in the middle of JJ and madman on this one.

I see what madman is saying, that God empowers us to do the right thing. That we should take responsibility for our neighbors AND our enemies and do the best we can to love them. That is Biblical.

On the other hand, I see what JJ is saying, being of a sin nature, we can never have a utopian set of conditions in our "mankind thinking" world and would need some kind of divine intervention to get it right...like in Revelation. That is Biblical.

*turns to self* Wait saint, did you just say they're both right even though they have opposite views? *turns back* Yes, I did. I think madman has the right attitude to work with the world and make it a better place and I think JungleJake understands the nature of our sin and the reality thereof. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it....unless...persuaded otherwise.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Saint4God, I know this sounds blasphemous, and I do believe in Christ as God incarnate, the savior of my soul, but I can't help to throw Madnessinmysoul a question:

If man created god, who created man?


Of course, I know God created everything. But the only answer to such a question is "evolution" but that is just a theory invented to "raplace" God with self as god.

Fromabove

WHAT
THE
........

must, avoid profanity...

how does evolution "rEplace" god with one's self?
it just implies coinicidence giving rise to intelligent life.
it doesn't exclude spirituality.

fromabove, you just swing my argument around. i say that i'm unsure as to exactly life came about, but evolution was part of the process. however you take all these closing gaps in scientific knowledge and use it as proof of god. you can't tell me who created god, but i need to be okay with that while you keep asking me how the universe came to be. you're asking me to do decades of scientific research to disprove the existence of something you can't prove the existence of.

the universe is NOT proof of god!