The Anti-Christian conspiracy

The Lucifer you describe, support and promote is not the Son of God who died and was resurrected as an EXAMPLE of the DEATH BEATING promise being possible to all mortal men, who ALL MUST DIE ONCE but are offered the choise to live again and forever in perfect healthy, joyfilled peace.

No magic, esoteric teachings, meditation etc., that have been around since Nimrod, have done this or could make this promise despite trying to "save" themselves and "become gods" since the begining of human history.

Those who worship Lucifer and any of the other ancient 'gods' love to claim The God of the Christian faith must be cruel and sadistic to keep us waiting so long yet have no problem with their 'gods' not fixing things yet.

Like waking up from surgery, the memoury of traumas will be forgotten when resurrected.

If you don't believe in The Kingdom of God being established on earth, to be lived in by the resurrected, in perfect health, peace and joy that's your choise but promoting a similar but opposite "faith" to those who do believe The Word of God, is no different to the "door knocking bible bashers" Anti-Christians so like to hold up as examples of why no one should be Christian.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
The Lucifer you describe, support and promote is not the Son of God

How do you know that the label Lucifer is not one that describes the concept of Son of God?

Those who worship Lucifer and any of the other ancient 'gods'

The word Lucifer was first used in the fourth century. Lucifer is not a 'god', but a latin name for the morning star.

love to claim The God of the Christian faith must be cruel and sadistic to keep us waiting so long yet have no problem with their 'gods' not fixing things yet.

Lucifer is another word for morning star. Jesus Christ referred to himself as the morning star in Revelations 22:16. I worship Christ, the morning star, and yet I do not claim any of these things. Again I must remind you that Lucifer is just another word for the morning star, or Christ, and should not be confused with another 'god'.

If you don't believe in The Kingdom of God being established on earth, to be lived in by the resurrected, in perfect health, peace and joy that's your choise but promoting a similar but opposite "faith" to those who do believe The Word of God, is no different to the "door knocking bible bashers" Anti-Christians so like to hold up as examples of why no one should be Christian.

I don't promote any faith. All I'm trying to do is show you the real meaning of a Latin word, and not answer you with blind indoctrination.

EDIT: It is not important what label we use to describe the concept of our saviour Jesus Christ. It is the intent behind the words that matters. Discussing what label means what, without keeping in mind the intent is of no use. Just remind yourself that when I say Lucifer, I'm not saying it to describe the concept of Lucifer which you have in your mind. I'm saying it as a latin word which represents the concept of the morning star, or Christ; and the intent I have behind a particular word, cannot be debated.


[edit on 19/11/2005 by AkashicWanderer]

I am aware of the history of your points and that then like now it was and is used to seduce people into hearing and believing "another gospel". Your avitar and signiture shout out a warning that what you want others to "understand" ISN'T that there are those who worship a Lucifer in a manner contrary to the whole Christian faith.

This might have nothing to do with Christianity, but I read this book. It's called The Da Vinci Code. To be quite honest, I think it's a pile of tripe, entertaining tripe but tripe nonetheless. It said something of a vote on Jesus's divinity, that Emperor Constantine persided over. Is there any truth in this? I dunno, but I'm wary of a fictional book pointing out something like this.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I am aware of the history of your points and that then like now it was and is used to seduce people into hearing and believing "another gospel".

If you think that discussing the meaning of a latin word is preaching "another gospel" then so be it.

Your avitar and signiture shout out a warning that what you want others to "understand" ISN'T that there are those who worship a Lucifer in a manner contrary to the whole Christian faith.

Exactly!!

Although my avatar and signature are not intended to make others understand that there are those who worship Lucifer in a manner that is not contrary to the Christian faith, I do not mind if you interpret them as such; however, in the future, I would appreciate if you do not use ad hominem arguments, and rather forcus on the argument itself.

[edit on 19/11/2005 by AkashicWanderer]

You say it's "just a word" like the whispering enchanter said "it's just good fruit" and quote the 'good news' of The Doubter which are just writings designed to call away those with doubts who are still searching for "the light, the truth and the way".

THE Book of The Holy Scriptures and The Good News proclaimed by Jesus Christ, calls us to study, Line Upon Line, Precept Upon Precept, so as not to be misslead by claims such as, Being the Lightbringer, when The Christ told us He is THE LIGHT, THE TRUTH AND THE WAY.

Thank you for showing that there is a conspiracy against Christianity by demonstrating that it is concidered clever and socially acceptable to study and believe any other teachings or faith but not to put faith in Christianity.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
You say it's "just a word" like the whispering enchanter said "it's just good fruit" and quote the 'good news' of The Doubter which are just writings designed to call away those with doubts who are still searching for "the light, the truth and the way".

THE Book of The Holy Scriptures and The Good News proclaimed by Jesus Christ, calls us to study, Line Upon Line, Precept Upon Precept, so as not to be misslead by claims such as, Being the Lightbringer, when The Christ told us He is THE LIGHT, THE TRUTH AND THE WAY.

Thank you for showing that there is a conspiracy against Christianity by demonstrating that it is concidered clever and socially acceptable to study and believe any other teachings or faith but not to put faith in Christianity.

Calm down. I think you have some wires crossed. I do agree that it does seem that most people try to treat religions other than Christianity with respect while they continue to attack Christianity. Notice I said SEEM. Appearances are so misleading. It is not only Christianity that is under this pressure. Many religions are facing similar situations, but the Christian faith is the most widespread.

And as for putting faith into any other religion aside from Christianity, I am sure many non-believers like myself don't like to be led by blind faith. I am in no way trying to belittle your faith. In fact, I respect it. However, I, myself can not accept the Bible as it is. There may be truth to it, but its truths have been destroyed through 2,000 years of translations and manipulations by the church. As AkashicWanderer pointed out, which is very interesting I might add, translation errors can have an interesting, if not detrimental impact to the meaning of the bible. Thanks AkashicWanderer.

What I am saying is that there is not a "conspiracy" against Christianity. It is more of a loss of faith in the ancient, misguided(in my very humbled opinion mind you) words of MEN. And yes, there were prophecies which told of an end of times where Christianity would fall, but doesn't each civilization have it's own "end of times" stories?

Originally posted by MacDonagh
This might have nothing to do with Christianity, but I read this book. It's called The Da Vinci Code. To be quite honest, I think it's a pile of tripe, entertaining tripe but tripe nonetheless. It said something of a vote on Jesus's divinity, that Emperor Constantine persided over. Is there any truth in this? I dunno, but I'm wary of a fictional book pointing out something like this.

Hehe. I don't know about all that. But it is true that Constantine made Christianity what it is today. And it is up to debate on whether or not it was a business move. I think he was a traitor to his countrymen. I understand that Christians view this as a great moment for Christianity as many of the time lived under persecution. However, the tides changed and Christians began persecuting others. Destroying temples, outlawing certain practices. For Constantine it may have been a great move, but millions of lives have been lost since then. All in the name of "God".

I think it's a good idea to read many different texts from many different places. The problem is that too many focus on the differences in belief, rather than the similarities. That's human nature, to fear, criticize, and analyze what is different. If the similarities were noticed, such as the common belief of reincarnation and transmigration throughout many ancient beliefs spanning from Africa to South Asia, and the ancient middle east. There is even evidence that the god worshipped by the Christians, Jews and Muslims, was actually a misinterpretation/translation of the Zoroastrian sun god Mithra.

The world is a big place, and i'll be damned if the only thing that is absolutely true about it is in a 2000 year old mistranslated book. Spread the wealth is all I'm saying, and give credit where credit is due. Many ancient books have just as much meaning as the Bible.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Uhmm, Guys, surely you have noticed how very many people support and even praise Paganism, Freemasonry, Wicca, OTO, Lucifer, Satan etc. yet hatefully call Christians stupid and worse for their faith.

I have heard many Christians use the same type of language toward those of other faiths/nonfaith.

The problem with faith is that it is belief without knowledge. When threatened, no rational argument is possible, so emotion substitutes. You can tell whether or not someones position was derived rationally by how they react when you attack it.

The conspiracy spoken of in this thread is that of satan , using those who do not know Gods Truth, to bring about the environment he needs to exist, so he can step in and take over.

This board shows evidence of that very thing. Christ is under attack on all aspects or fronts. None of it is unexpected to the christian who reads scripture.

It seems that the very mention of it is an afront to those who are unwittingly misled. It seems that as long as there are christians, then others will feel guilty for doing what they do and hence feel the need to 'take a stand' against Jesus Christ and His words. If you cannot see the conspiracy, its likely because you are part of it. The eye cannot see the eye.

Originally posted by jake1997
If you cannot see the conspiracy, its likely because you are part of it. The eye cannot see the eye.

The word "conspiracy" implies intent. If you are not knowingly part of a conspiracy, then you are not part of it.

The so-called "anti-Christianity conspiracy" is exactly the same as the "anit-Misquito conspiracy" - people just don't want to be swarmed over and have little bites and welps. That's all there is to it.

When there are no misquitoes around to bug you, you don't think about them. Same thing applies here.

[edit on 20-11-2005 by Al Davison]

Originally posted by suzy ryan
You say it's "just a word"

Do you not agree that "Lucifer" is just a word?

The word itself has no power. It is the concept with which we attach the label that has power. If you want to attach the label lucifer, to a concept that differs with mine, that is fine; however, just remember that the label will conceptualize different things for the two of us.

and quote the 'good news' of The Doubter which are just writings designed to call away those with doubts who are still searching for "the light, the truth and the way".

The Gospel of Thomas was not written by the Apostle Thomas.

THE Book of The Holy Scriptures and The Good News proclaimed by Jesus Christ, calls us to study, Line Upon Line, Precept Upon Precept, so as not to be misslead by claims such as, Being the Lightbringer, when The Christ told us He is THE LIGHT, THE TRUTH AND THE WAY.

Christ also told us he was the morning star. Lucifer is another word for morning star. Was Christ lying to us?

Thank you for showing that there is a conspiracy against Christianity

If you clear your mind you will see that there is no conspiracy. We are discussing the meaning of one latin word. That is all.

Originally posted by jake1997
The conspiracy spoken of in this thread is that of satan , using those who do not know Gods Truth, to bring about the environment he needs to exist, so he can step in and take over.

This board shows evidence of that very thing. Christ is under attack on all aspects or fronts. None of it is unexpected to the christian who reads scripture.

It seems that the very mention of it is an afront to those who are unwittingly misled. It seems that as long as there are christians, then others will feel guilty for doing what they do and hence feel the need to 'take a stand' against Jesus Christ and His words. If you cannot see the conspiracy, its likely because you are part of it. The eye cannot see the eye.

Why wouldn't ideas of chrisianity being overthrown by other religions be sown into the fabric of the belief system? What better way to keep people fighting for their faith, "In the name of God"?

And instead of saying we are "unwittingly misled", why don't you offer us some proof? That's right, no one can. I can not prove you are wrong and you can not prove you are right. I can only take this side and see that there is definately reasonable doubt to believe the facts of the christian faith. There is no conspiracy but the conspiracy invented in the minds of christians to allow them to fight for their religion. Which has been instilled since the beginning.

Part of the conspiracy against Christianity is the language used against it's believers. Budists are spoken of as enlightened, Hindus as peacefull, Islam is a religion of love and every form of occult practice is seeking knowledge and truth. When it comes to Christians however, it's entoctrinated, unenlightened, uneducated, "remember the crusades".

I have no doubt that the anti-Christians that post here know full well that many of the Christians they respond to, came to their faith through a life of study, searching and experience yet the Christian haters (yes hate is the motivation of so many) persist in talking down to them and suggesting they study something, ANYTHING else, implying they have little knowledge or intelligence.

It is known and understood by those who've done any Biblical study that The Bible explains and supports itself yet doesn't restrict the student to itself but encourages things like the study of nature and history. It's, "line upon line, precept upon precept" yet, or rather so, the educated Christian haters insist on debating single words or single lines in a deliberate effort to move the foundations and send those young or weak in faith running in fear and confussion.

This conspiracy of language is deliberate and internationaly pervasive. There is no end of the entertainment industry mentioning things like, "when you die you go to heaven or hell" which encourages the perception that the God of Christian faith must be cruel yet the Bible and Christ Himself, clearly state that we sleep at death untill the resurrection. What happens then is so beatifully kind and just, too long to go into here but I encourage folk to look it up themselves.

The point I'm making is that the truth of and in The Bible can't compete against lies constantly fed us by entertainments and the general media. You must search it out with your whole heart and mind and be aware that there is an Ancient and International Conspiracy to hinder and stop that search. You may notice some of those Consiracy Members here on ATS who no matter how often they've been corrected about things that aren't Biblical, by educated Christians, persist in repeating the same old lies and misconceptions at any new oppotunity.

A current popular tactic is Pagans screaming, "Christians stole our religion." When it was God FIRST and Nimrod who tried to steal His place by starting False religion and every time since in history, when God has called us back, the little leaven the God haters snuck in has swollen through the whole lump. It's also a timely tactic as more people are discovering that their "church" teaches things that aren't Biblical and the pagans and their ilk are hoping to catch them as they fall off their pews.

Before "religion" there was God and after "religion" there will still be God and The Book of Holy Scriptures and The Good News DEMONSTRATED by His Son, explains the whole thing very well including the fact of constant, vast and subtle CONSPIRACIES to pervert and twist the truth.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Budists are spoken of as enlightened, Hindus as peacefull, Islam is a religion of love and every form of occult practice is seeking knowledge and truth. When it comes to Christians however, it's entoctrinated, unenlightened, uneducated, "remember the crusades".

You are using the language these religions use to describe themselves, and then switch to language used by Christian detractors to describe Christianity. If you were to approach this in an unbiased manner, you would use the language Christians use to describe themselves in this list as well, which would be "love".

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I have no doubt that the anti-Christians that post here know full well that many of the Christians they respond to, came to their faith through a life of study, searching and experience yet the Christian haters (yes hate is the motivation of so many) persist in talking down to them and suggesting they study something, ANYTHING else, implying they have little knowledge or intelligence.

If you have the knowledge or intelligence you seem to desire, you will realize many "anti-christians" have come to their positions through years of study and research as well. I suppose there are Christian-haters out there, but mostly what you find here are Christianity-haters at best, or simply faith-haters (in my case).

Originally posted by suzy ryan
It is known and understood by those who've done any Biblical study that The Bible explains and supports itself ...

No it doesn't. You're confusiing deceptive speculation (aka apologetics) with reasoning. If you read it without presuming it explains and supports itself, you will see that it doesn't. It's just a hodgepodge of oft conflicting stories written by numerous writers over the course of about 1000 years.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
yet the Bible and Christ Himself, clearly state that we sleep at death untill the resurrection.

Luke 23:43
"Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Spamandham, first, you put a comma where there wasn't one, before TODAY, and you still couldn't resist the tactic of selectively quoteing The Bible when I already pointed out that THE WHOLE Bible, studied and searched through, explains what some offer as contradictions.

I gave an example of the words 'others' use to talk about Christianity as opposed to other faiths to show a way in which Christianity is attacked and you somehow turn that into implying I lack love????

I didn't say that Anti-Christians lacked intelligence but pointed out they they love to use their vast educations to imply that those with faith must be stupid against the "light" of their arguements.

You may have a problem with all faiths but you put alot of time and effort into searching out any thread where you can find an opportuity to attack and insult Christians. Too frightened to go after the Moslems and Christian professing Freemasons or isn't that your "job"? O.K. that may come across as flaming but I'm not the only one noticing and wondering what so many get out of putting so much time and effort into attacking one faith, that being Christianity then trying to say there's no conspiracy against it.

Spamandham, first, you put a comma where there wasn't one, before TODAY, and you still couldn't resist the tactic of selectively quoteing The Bible when I already pointed out that THE WHOLE Bible, studied and searched through, explains what some offer as contradictions.

Then show us some evidence.

I gave an example of the words 'others' use to talk about Christianity as opposed to other faiths to show a way in which Christianity is attacked and you somehow turn that into implying I lack love????

I don't think that is what he meant.....

I didn't say that Anti-Christians lacked intelligence but pointed out they they love to use their vast educations to imply that those with faith must be stupid against the "light" of their arguements.

No, no one said that any one with faith is stupid. There is no conspiracy against christians and everyone is just as dumb as everyone else. Our light is just that, ours. Our "revelations" are not for everyone, just like christianity is not. We are not christian- haters as spamandham said. We just can't have faith. And I think some of us are tired of hearing that we are all wrong, while some christians tell us their religion is infallible, when it has proven itself not to be, time and time again. The reason the bible is attacked is because it is the center-piece of christian faith. All truths of the christian faith are drawn from it and NO WHERE ELSE!

You may have a problem with all faiths but you put alot of time and effort into searching out any thread where you can find an opportuity to attack and insult Christians. Too frightened to go after the Moslems and Christian professing Freemasons or isn't that your "job"? O.K. that may come across as flaming but I'm not the only one noticing and wondering what so many get out of putting so much time and effort into attacking one faith, that being Christianity then trying to say there's no conspiracy against it.

Again, I have to say it, your not the only religion being attacked. Stop thinking like that, please. You sound like a hurt little child. All bruised and beaten! All of these faiths are getting attacked. No, its not just you. So stop attacking people like that!

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Spamandham, first, you put a comma where there wasn't one, before TODAY,

I didn't put it there. Take your objection up with King James.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
and you still couldn't resist the tactic of selectively quoteing The Bible when I already pointed out that THE WHOLE Bible, studied and searched through, explains what some offer as contradictions.

I have read and studied the entire Bible multiple passes. I know firsthand what you're saying is not true.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I gave an example of the words 'others' use to talk about Christianity as opposed to other faiths to show a way in which Christianity is attacked and you somehow turn that into implying I lack love????

I did not imply you lack love. I don't even know you, how could I make such a claim? All I did was point out that you are using two different perspectives. In the case of Buddhists et. al., you used their own descriptions of themselves, but then switched perspectives to the detracters for Christianity. Had you been consistent, you would have noted that the Christian perspective of itself is "love". (generally)

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I didn't say that Anti-Christians lacked intelligence but pointed out they they love to use their vast educations to imply that those with faith must be stupid against the "light" of their arguements.

It's no different than what Christians have been doing since day 1. How many passages are there that refer to nonbelievers as fools? Have you ever heard the joke Christians love to pass around about National Atheists Day? Do you honestly think we're going to tread softly regarding fath and degrees of knowledge when the faithful make a habit of calling us fools?

There's a reason that education is inversely proportional to faith.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
You may have a problem with all faiths but you put alot of time and effort into searching out any thread where you can find an opportuity to attack and insult Christians. Too frightened to go after the Moslems and Christian professing Freemasons or isn't that your "job"?

If you look at the topics on this section of the board, they are almost all related to Christianity. Should I start blasting Islam in a thread that's talking about the anti-Christian conspiracy? Besides, I don't know enough about Islam or Freemasonry to mount an effective attack. The best I can do in those cases is to attack the concept of faith itself, which I do on a regular basis.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
O.K. that may come across as flaming but I'm not the only one noticing and wondering what so many get out of putting so much time and effort into attacking one faith, that being Christianity then trying to say there's no conspiracy against it.

Evangelical types come on here spouting hateful nonsense, calling everyone else fools, telling them they're going to fry forever in a lake of fire, proving themselves to be deluded beyond reproach with their young earth BS, and then claim there's some kind of conspiracy when they receive an appropriately negative response to their insane babbling.

You're right. There is in fact a conspiracy against obnoxious delusional nonsense.