what if china wanted this epidemic to hurt the USA economy?

I had an scary thought.

what if china didnt tell us about the virus / continue not to be forthcoming with all the facts or even (this is way out there but listed for possibility) created it to hurt the US economy.


Before you think this is really tin foil hat stuff let me explain

for the last couple of decades and multiple presidents (both D and R parties) china has been (for lack of a better words) screwing and stealing from us economically .

Starting with IMO bush and continue though obama.

they have stolen intellectual property left and right unchallenged to the point of them going to trade shows and before the show is even over some factory is gearing up to produce a copy of whatever new/advance item was shown.

under clinton they went from limited short range missiles to having ballistic NUCLEAR missiles capable of hitting into the USA
So good they openly threatened us if we tried anything.

Our trade deficit went over 5 BILLION DOLLARS plus and STAYED THERE.

Any attempt at negotiation on economic trade can best and blunty be described as giving us the finger and saying "whatcha gonna do about it"

While at the same time advancing their space capability , military tech , space research , and anti satellite tech that is at minimum able to credibly threaten us if not directly compete.

militarily they took over the spratly islands to create a big man made military base effectively unchallenged .


all this and more while becoming rich at america expense and more importantly unchallenged


now comes president trump.

one who (as a businessman) knows we are dependent on the goods they produce BUT they are MORE DEPENDENT on the cash that they take from us on a level of every billion we get they get from us 500 BILLION.

In simple terms they need us more than we need them .

He isnt afraid to take them on and hit them where it hurts if they dont want to negotiate a deal that also benefits the US.

they tried to bully him as they have done for decades expecting him to fold.

Suddenly it doesnt work and despite what the press would have you believe it is hurting them badly.


Suddenly they are FORCED to actually negotiate a deal that cuts their overwhelming profits off us to something that benefits the US.

It is a multi step plan for sure and I have no doubt they were trying to find a way to go back to the way it was.

The only way is to get rid of trump before the agreements become permanent and /or if they break them they wont face any consequences .

Every democrat attempt with the latest is impeachment has FAILED.

They see a reasonably good chance that trump will win a second term and if that happens their duck us cooked.

So whats left that could hurt trumps chances (at least making the press say so) ?

An economic downturn of some type .

what faster way than a "pandemic" that also effects goods and services coming from china?
Along with disrupting internal operations of the US (and allies who would pick up china slack like SK).

Even if they didnt engineer the virus just keeping it quiet until alot of people return to other countries or visit other countries.
then be untruthful as to what is happening in china, the particulars of the disease, how it started, ect.


plausible deniability all around and/or weather the criticism of how they handled / handling it and info.

as many say "only an economic downturn may hurt trump"?

doesnt matter it isnt something he did or was his fault in any way or that he cant control if another country LIES about a disease within their boarders?

again this doesnt take into account the possibility (what level I dare not even think about) it could be deliberate made and released.

that is something that would be too horrific if true.


what do you all think?

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

its going to hurt them more them then the usa by most articles ive read but did seem to end those pesky HK protests

originally posted by: scrounger
I had an scary thought.

what if china didnt tell us about the virus / continue not to be forthcoming with all the facts or even (this is way out there but listed for possibility) created it to hurt the US economy.


Before you think this is really tin foil hat stuff let me explain

for the last couple of decades and multiple presidents (both D and R parties) china has been (for lack of a better words) screwing and stealing from us economically .

Starting with IMO bush and continue though obama.

they have stolen intellectual property left and right unchallenged to the point of them going to trade shows and before the show is even over some factory is gearing up to produce a copy of whatever new/advance item was shown.

under clinton they went from limited short range missiles to having ballistic NUCLEAR missiles capable of hitting into the USA
So good they openly threatened us if we tried anything.

Our trade deficit went over 5 BILLION DOLLARS plus and STAYED THERE.

Any attempt at negotiation on economic trade can best and blunty be described as giving us the finger and saying "whatcha gonna do about it"

While at the same time advancing their space capability , military tech , space research , and anti satellite tech that is at minimum able to credibly threaten us if not directly compete.

militarily they took over the spratly islands to create a big man made military base effectively unchallenged .


all this and more while becoming rich at america expense and more importantly unchallenged


now comes president trump.

one who (as a businessman) knows we are dependent on the goods they produce BUT they are MORE DEPENDENT on the cash that they take from us on a level of every billion we get they get from us 500 BILLION.

In simple terms they need us more than we need them .

He isnt afraid to take them on and hit them where it hurts if they dont want to negotiate a deal that also benefits the US.

they tried to bully him as they have done for decades expecting him to fold.

Suddenly it doesnt work and despite what the press would have you believe it is hurting them badly.


Suddenly they are FORCED to actually negotiate a deal that cuts their overwhelming profits off us to something that benefits the US.

It is a multi step plan for sure and I have no doubt they were trying to find a way to go back to the way it was.

The only way is to get rid of trump before the agreements become permanent and /or if they break them they wont face any consequences .

Every democrat attempt with the latest is impeachment has FAILED.

They see a reasonably good chance that trump will win a second term and if that happens their duck us cooked.

So whats left that could hurt trumps chances (at least making the press say so) ?

An economic downturn of some type .

what faster way than a "pandemic" that also effects goods and services coming from china?
Along with disrupting internal operations of the US (and allies who would pick up china slack like SK).

Even if they didnt engineer the virus just keeping it quiet until alot of people return to other countries or visit other countries.
then be untruthful as to what is happening in china, the particulars of the disease, how it started, ect.


plausible deniability all around and/or weather the criticism of how they handled / handling it and info.

as many say "only an economic downturn may hurt trump"?

doesnt matter it isnt something he did or was his fault in any way or that he cant control if another country LIES about a disease within their boarders?

again this doesnt take into account the possibility (what level I dare not even think about) it could be deliberate made and released.

that is something that would be too horrific if true.


what do you all think?

scrounger

I doubt it, given that they've biologically nuked *themselves*. But I really like the theorizing.

then the plan vehemently backfired on them

originally posted by: RalagaNarHallas
a reply to: scrounger

its going to hurt them more them then the usa by most articles ive read but did seem to end those pesky HK protests

the HK protesters either it hurts them though illness or due to it no one is paying attention to the protestors.
So china has free reign to do whatever they want without over side or question.
one day the press goes back to HK and nothing going on, the leaders of protest "disappeared" and all back to normal.

that is scary but practical thought.

As to if it hurts them more ONLY IF they dont get rid of Trump.

If Trump is gone the democrats will let it go back to status quo and/or even give some back as "apology" but call it "helping XX group hurt by trump".

If Trump stays then I agree it will hurt them more.

but given the 500 to one plus benefit they got in trade deficit , the IP they could blatantly steal , and the press showing they are anti trump beyond all truth ...

I can see them taking the risk

scrounger

[q

I doubt it, given that they've biologically nuked *themselves*. But I really like the theorizing.

thank you

but it isnt as far fetched as it seems

remember they think about the ends and the means is secondary.

along with they deliberately created a huge population with the intent (wish I could remember the exact source, been a few years) of having more people to absorb any attack (even nuclear) and still enough to conquer.


remember they could loose MILLIONS of citizens and still be ahead of the US (as sick as that sounds)

scrounger

China has 750 million people under travel restrictions. Their economy is basically at a stand still. 80% of small businesses will fail within 3 months in China.

This corona virus will decimate entire economies of countries and it is happening now in China. China is trying to stop this virus from spreading and that's exceptional for them to do so. They are doing so at the cost of their economy.

This virus is stopping travel of people everywhere in the world.

100,000 people from China can't come over to Australia for their placements in Australian Universities. Boohooo too bad. I'm glad. No country want's this virus coming in as it will decimate thier economy like it is currently doing to China.

China has 750 million people under travel restrictions. Their economy is basically at a stand still. 80% of small businesses will fail within 3 months in China.

This corona virus will decimate entire economies of countries and it is happening now in China. China is trying to stop this virus from spreading and that's exceptional for them to do so. They are doing so at the cost of their economy.

This virus is stopping travel of people everywhere in the world.

100,000 people from China can't come over to Australia for their placements in Australian Universities. Boohooo too bad. I'm glad. No country want's this virus coming in as it will decimate thier economy like it is currently doing to China.

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

A few conspiracy theories revolve around the idea that the usa manufactured the virus.

Can't rule out the possibility yet.

maybe China didn't 'nuke' itself.

World war III might be a biological war.

Russia seems to think so.

Operation Infektion may just be propaganda. lot's of that going around.

a reply to: DaRAGE

100,000 people from China can't come over to Australia for their placements in Australian Universities. Boohooo too bad. I'm glad. No country want's this virus coming in as it will decimate thier economy like it is currently doing to China.

Um, 3000 have been let in in just 2 days, that was days ago so I imagine the numbers are much higher now....

You were saying....

originally posted by: sunkuong
a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

A few conspiracy theories revolve around the idea that the usa manufactured the virus.

I havent seen any like this, but given the internet anyone can post its possible someone claimed it.

Can't rule out the possibility yet.

While slim chance it could be possible I would have to say that realistically we could. Look we just negociated a multi step trade deal that the first step (the chineese promised) mostly benifits the USA. The only chineese benifit seems to be removal and not implimenting new tariffs. Why after all these years of getting royally screwed would the US screw that up. thats not realistic or practical

maybe China didn't 'nuke' itself.


that would only be the case if A. a bilogical weapon was actually accidentally released or B. if it really was a natural unpredicted virus that just popped up

World war III might be a biological war.

maybe.. but again in realism any nation that used this as a "first strike" is a fool. If found out the nation that started it would find even its allies would want it blown off the face of the earth. With the major powers (even if enemies ) would join up to accomplish that.. with possiblity of nukes to kill the pathogen.

along with the very basic common knowlege that biological weapons are the most uncontrollable weapons there is.. first no scientist is perfect and to claim you know what it will and will not do is laughable. Second any biologcial pathogen can do things (like mutate) in ways we cannot predict. Lastly biological weapons have a very nasty way of not staying where you put them. especially given the international travel of today.

Russia seems to think so.

No sure exactly where your going with this. US and Russia (no matter what they claim publically) are involved with biological weapons, No matter if you call them offensive or US claiming study is just for "defense" . So yes russia and america would be thinking of biolgical weapons for WWIII... but in reality (again) the actual use is only a madman level.. not policy in both countries

Operation Infektion may just be propaganda. lot's of that going around.

I dont think realistically the US would want to engage in a plan like this.

as a businessman would say, no percentage / benefit in it.

scrounger

It's a bit predictable really...

While the ENTIRE world is bracing for what just might be a global pandemic, someone says "What if they did it just to hurt America?"

le sigh...

Frankly, five billion is pocket change to us in this day of trillion dollar deficits. Possibility they messed up but I wouldn't lean that way too much. Now we are buddies with India, which is far better than being tethered to China. They are saying now, all the cases of Coronavirus in Vietnam have been cured ? Makes one wonder how effective biological warfare might fare before neutralized.

originally posted by: Plotus
Frankly, five billion is pocket change to us in this day of trillion dollar deficits. Possibility they messed up but I wouldn't lean that way too much. Now we are buddies with India, which is far better than being tethered to China. They are saying now, all the cases of Coronavirus in Vietnam have been cured ? Makes one wonder how effective biological warfare might fare before neutralized.

actually your missing two zeros

its 500 BILLION plus.

along with that isnt pocket change to the economy of US and china.

but your right wonder how it will all play out

scrounger

originally posted by: Gnarley
It's a bit predictable really...

While the ENTIRE world is bracing for what just might be a global pandemic, someone says "What if they did it just to hurt America?"

le sigh...

so outside of a canned "this must be silly" comment (on a conspiracy website no less) how exactly is the idea of attempting to use it to benefit ones country (china) outrageous exactly?

join the conversation, you may even like it

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

This is what I would consider typical of people in the US, hope I am wrong
China is being devastated economically, no one is allowed out to work in some places, food is difficult to get and water, socially, families are being destroyed, children are losing parents and parents children. Cities closed down to stop the spread of this disease, a civil war may be in the offering.
At this stage, Nina May take decades to recover but

Some in the US think it’s all about them, just them and think of nobody but themselves

China crashing and burning before our eyes but never mind them, they are attacking us.

As if a person drowning is really a trick to make the people watching drown.
Almost psychopathic

originally posted by: sunkuong
a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

A few conspiracy theories revolve around the idea that the usa manufactured the virus.

Can't rule out the possibility yet.

maybe China didn't 'nuke' itself.

World war III might be a biological war.

Russia seems to think so.

Operation Infektion may just be propaganda. lot's of that going around.

Wasn't there a theory ( which is based on connecting breadcrumbs of who worked where, published what and certain events) that the US made it, Canada had it, it was stolen from Canada by China, and then China screwed up in their incompetent BSL-4 lab? I would definitely consider that China "nuking" itself through apathy and incompetence.

a reply to: scrounger

While it is plausible that this is indeed a weaponized virus that was accidentally (or deliberately) released in China and while I believe the Chinese most definitely do have active biological and chemical weapon's program's I don't think this was intended for use - at this time - against the US, to harm the US despite recent sanctions and argument's would actually harm China's own economy.

More likely this was an accidental release or a release by rogue element's within China and it is now spreading all around the world, I doubt this will be contained and none of us have any immunity to it though most that get this virus will simply suffer like it was a bad case of the flu, other's however especially people with heart problems, respiratory problems or other underlying illness and most especially the elderly - as well as many that are fit since it will hit everyone it infects differently - will not survive.

Millions, perhaps even ten's of millions or hundreds given today's population density's especially in the third world will die, it is not going to be a pandemic it is already a pandemic in it's embryonic stage.

This will however NOT be in anybody's interests - except some lunatic that erected some so called guide stones in the US state of Georgia - and even that pure moronic idiot will not gain from it as even if it reaches the upper estimate of the death figures it will NOT even dent human population growth, the strongest - most vigorous and fertile will survive creating an even more disease resistant human populace in it's wake - and a larger population such as we have today makes us more dynamic as a species due to the vast variation in our individual immune systems that makes our race more able to cope than a smaller population would with a similar or worse pandemic (so in affect the idiot that want's humanity to follow his own personal plan on those guide stone's wants the human race to be weak, sickly and ineffectual in the face of diverse environmental and biological threats and his plan would inevitably lead to humanity's actual extinction as it would homogenize people and leave them more vulnerable as a group than a larger more diverse group will ever be (but try to teach that to a sick minded weirdo with too much money - or for that matter other group's such as radical extremists among the extinction rebellion movement that also want to cull humanity).

What it shall do is what it is already doing, Shock the world's economic markets, cause share prices to fall and adversely affect tourism with many poorer tourism dependent country's and regions suffering from the severe shock to there local economy's that will accompany this.

AND it will give many governments that have longed for an excuse to bring in more powers, to curb people's right's and to strengthen undemocratic system's the excuse to do so - BUT this is an unfortunate side affect as containment is so far the only way we have been able to even hinder the spread of the virus but as has been shown several times over it only takes one infected person passing through a crowded airport, staying at a hotel etc to spread the virus beyond such attempted containment.

a reply to: drussell41

the bread crumbs are induendos , theories and just plain guessing.


in short while interesting no verifiable fact.

unless you can provide genome proof

scrounger

a reply to: LABTECH767
your right it would be a lunatic that would actually try this crazy idea.

but desperation of communist governments would consider lunacy

also remember that it was their idea to have a large population to absorb any attack (even nuclear in the cold war) and come back to fight in strength.

hell in korea they sent wave attacks with even more ready to back up the losses.

I am not saying it was deliberate , accident , or just mother nature flipping us the bird.

but I can see by their silence and still not being truthful (unless totally mad) they are taking advantage of the situation or hoping to.

yes their economy is going into the tank

but if as deadly and commutable as it seams who better can absorb / contain the outbreak than a communist county with billions of residence.

where smaller countries (japan, korea, countries in europe, south east asia and south america) that some are rivals cant absorb the sudden outbreaks (that may have been brewing for months).

hell we have more but could be devastating .

i am not happy about this but one must consider all options to protect ourselves.

sadly we (thanks to china) are late in the game

scrounger