I Forgive You and I'm Sorry

a reply to: muzzleflash

you are a good person, with a good soul. Just keep being you. I'm glad you are in a good place.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: muzzleflash

you are a good person, with a good soul. Just keep being you. I'm glad you are in a good place.

Thank you very much for being You too!

In one of my darkest hours You showed me that Real Friends and Good People do indeed exist. And I'll never forget that.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: muzzleflash

You know you're one of my favs on ATS, I said what it made me think. I'm not in pain, I struggle with life, love, god and everything. But you being you, I'm sure you know how necessary that is. For growth and such, right?
My experience was different, my conclusions are different.
I don't trust "god" and I have very good reasons why.

And I'm sorry but forgiveness is just not my style. That's not causing any pain or suffering.

Forgiveness is for your OWN good when you zoom out and see the big picture. You GET that, right? That's reality. I mean the REAL deal. I hope you get that.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: muzzleflash

I tolerate a lot. There are a magnitude of things that don't need forgiveness because I understand why the other person is doing them,or can accept it as part of their habits/personality.

I just got different priorities: justice, truth, compassion/empathy

Love & forgiveness are detrimental to that.

Love and Forgiveness are instrumental requisites for Justice, Truth, and Compassion.

I know how painful it is to lose in Love. I know the feeling of a Heart being shattered, of being ripped to shreds.

I know how unfair it feels when you do the right thing but yet the universe responded with negativity and harsh cruelty.

I know the darkness all too well, more than anyone should ever know.

I don't enjoy seeing you in pain, you have to know that by now. I want all of us to find Good.

But what can I say? I can't control you or your feelings or thoughts.

It's OK to experience these feelings, I have before and it was OK I went through it. I did not like it at all, but I survived and learned.

When you get angry, realize only you experience it directly. It is from inside you. And it eats away at and dissolves the Soul. It burns you, therefore anger is part of Hell.

The only true Hell is the one we create for ourselves from resentment, blame, anger, loneliness, hate, etc.

You are imprisoning and torturing yourself over something that isn't your fault.

I can't break you free. But I will ask you to take a deep breath, think it over, and talk to me or anyone about it.

I will never judge you unfairly if I can help it. I will listen and always care. So open up your Heart and speak about it.

You think I'm going to set idly by while you go through this ? Not likely.

Thinking and talking about this is the way forward. No strings, nothings in stone, no obligation. Cool?

Just tell me what's going on and I'll try my best to understand.

Out of everyone out there - you can talk about this and you will have my support. I will care.

I don't care what you've done and I won't hold anything against you. Clean slate. I will support you unconditionally in this process of your recovery from heartbreak.

Don't forget though that it's entirely up to you to overcome this tribulation. But you've got someone here cheering for you so c'mon! You got this!

I have something for you, for everyone:
Desiderata

Please read this. Get a poster of it and frame it on a wall at home.

It says
"Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass."

And it's so True. In the face of my heartbreak, of my cold winter of internal death - my Love grows anew. I can Love again and I always do. I will. It is the cycle of nature. Lose the cynicism and awaken yourself to the Truth of Who You are.

None of them define You. Only You can!

"You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy."

I'm probably going to keep writing random thoughts about life in this thread.

Right now a few friends are starting a jam session....

They're surprisingly good. Like it doesn't even make sense how this house is a nexus for really cool ppl that are also musically talented, one of them Isaac is a true virtuoso and invents random high quality stuff on a daily basis. He just plays to play, it's a real honor to witness. Unbelievable improv skills.

And they're all so cool. None do any hard drugs so everyone is 100%. No one has insulted me or talked # once since I got here in November.

What are the odds that out of like 20 ppl not one was disrespectful in any open way? Everyone's so nice lol.

I was praying for a safe place to survive another day, free from resentment (openly at least haha) so even that somehow worked out for a moment.

I got to see my daughter play piano and sing at church yesterday, it was super cool. A week ago she threw a football back and forth with me for an hour, she's actually pretty good at it too, she must have been playing a lot with other kids while I was away lol.

Being around my kids, and being actual friends with my xwife with zero animosity or resentment between us, has been the best thing I've experienced in years.

Life's definitely not perfect, but I made it this far and I will sleep good tonight.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I'm not unhappy, I'm not in pain.
He's a sadistic, pedophile alcoholic and I won't forgive and love that's just insane.

Justice doesn't need love and forgiveness, I'm humanist, everybody have their stories what made them what they are, but they're still rotten and dangerous, just to love and forgive won't fix that. Justice means adequate consequences. A hug and "I forgive you" is not always the correct response.

I truly regret I entered this discussion. You're all preaching from a standpoint that never had to face true evil.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

My ego? You're the one assuming you know # about me while spewing platitudes that show you lack depth and experience.
I want you to know I love myself very much. So much I don't need others. Everything you said is wrong.

If yiu love yourself so much, why are you so hostile and nasty to people? This is a common theme w you all over this site.

In my 64+ years of life. I never met a single person who truly loved themselves, that treated other people hostile, or claimed they would KILL someone they use to be with if they had to do it over again

Ever

You can fool yourself if you like, but yiu aren't fooling anyone else. And you hide it with hubris and hostility

Dare I say you should look inward on that, maybe not so much was that persons fault you want to kill

a reply to: Peeple

And I'm sorry but forgiveness is just not my style. That's not causing any pain or suffering.

Not for anyone else it's not, but it sure seems to be doing so for you ✌️😉

a reply to: Peeple

I truly regret I entered this discussion. You're all preaching from a standpoint that never had to face true evil.

And you're making assumptions about people's life experiences that you have no idea about.

You don't know what any of us have gone through nor the evil we have witnessed or had afflicted upon us.

Your hubris and pain are controlling your emotions and how you are interact w people

I really hope you find what you need to get better, I really do, the risk is that if you don't, you inict this past n and this continued cycle on everyone you meet, including family and any children

There's some good free counseling and groups out there that do a lot of good, it might be nice to find one that has people that have experienced what you have, they tend to do well helping each other heal

All the best, I'll say a prayer for you as well

a reply to: SailorJerry

I just don't like it when others think they can preach and be condescending as if their opinion and platitudes would be the only valid way to think.
It's not hostility when I dare to say: I see it differently.
Seems like the love and forgiveness people are also pretty self-righteous. Also just my opinion. Can you tolerate and accept that?

a reply to: Peeple

Are you willing to go kill this guy yourself? Either take a crap or get off the pot!

All you're doing is holding negative energy in your Heart, which is making you into a rotten person.

I absolutely have no attraction to rotten people. I need a cool chill female in my life that's intelligent and will forgive my mistakes and love me through it.

Those negative emotions and thoughts you allow to control your path are even going to cause medical problems of all sorts. I'm serious this is going to affect your organs and take years away from you that you could have been happy.

Forgiving others had nothing to do with them, you aren't saying evil is ok or acceptable. You're clearing your Spirit of the negative energy, which is very unhealthy, and freeing yourself from countless hours of misery.

Forgiving others is about yourself letting go and moving on, I don't even have to tell them I'm doing it.

Its about overcoming evil by refusing to allow it to rot you from the inside out.

As it is now, evil is consuming your mind heart body and spirit. You are rotting and putrid.

None of us can help you, you are truly doomed until you change yourself and your mind.

For some bizarre reason a Hallmark of evil and it's anger resentment and hate - is that it convinced you it's legit and correct when it never was in any circumstances.

Hate literally believes it is justified and claims to want/seek good but in reality it's a LIE. Hate only brings bad with it every single time.

There never was a good hate. It was never justified. Hate always lied. It always wanted evil.

Only Love speaks Truth. Love is good.
Hate is evil.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't hate. I said that before. I couldn't hurt a fly. I said that before. I don't lie.
I don't know why you're all assuming I'm unhappy? I'm not.

All I'm saying is that love and forgiveness is not for me. I think that's shallow and in the way if you want true justice. You're all quite hysterical just because I disagree. Maybe that's why you have the need for forgiving because you lack tolerance?

And for what it's worth, I didn't write the OP to convince anyone of anything.

I wrote it for me. This thread was created by me for me.

I like that others read it and post their feelings thoughts and experience.

But really the point was for me to release my own pain back into the universe and allow God to handle it.

I didn't need to post or tell anyone, but I posted it anyways for my own therapeutic purpose. I was literally and figuratively releasing the energy.

My goal is to get over it and move on towards my happiness with no negative baggage. So I'm dumping it.

The person who did me wrong is irrelevant in terms of me and my path. At best, they were merely representing an obstacle I had to overcome.

I tried my best to give my Heart, and so I'm Happy with my efforts and dedication. If they don't respond appropriately it's not my fault. We all make our own choices. There's nothing else I can do to make it better cept to drop it and do nothing at all.

So I forgive and ask forgiveness to create True Closure and end this chapter of my life on a good note.

I wish to start over clean and new.

The secondary reason I posted this was because most people need to see how this works in a real life situation because they are probably facing problems of their own that this can actually benefit them greatly.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't hate. I said that before. I couldn't hurt a fly. I said that before. I don't lie.
I don't know why you're all assuming I'm unhappy? I'm not.

All I'm saying is that love and forgiveness is not for me. I think that's shallow and in the way if you want true justice. You're all quite hysterical just because I disagree. Maybe that's why you have the need for forgiving because you lack tolerance?

I disagree because your statements are unsound logic.

Justice, by it's very definition, is a fair outcome between parties that resolves the problem.

You claimed to want to kill this person for dumping you, while you also claimed to love them.

That's not and wasn't love. Love always forgives.

It's an immature emotional outburst. Which is fine, I understand you ARE very deeply hurt.

You are in denial about that pain and mental stress and you are literally suffering.

You aren't seeking Justice, no. This is vengeance you desire.

Justice liberates and heals.
Vengeance controls and destroys.

a reply to: Peeple

This is about looking in the mirror.

Pointing your finger at someone else and blaming them for your feelings and problems IS the main problem.

Until you can own up to your mistakes and take ownership of your choices to feel and think this way, you will never overcome it.

For years I believed "Justice" was about punishing the person I thought was wrong and bad...

But what I realized was that Justice prevails with or without me. In fact it may be impossible to find Justice if I intervened because I'm the victim and so I'm bias in my favor.

Instead, because the universe is always in balance and operates on math - Justice will always emerge no matter what.

a reply to: muzzleflash

For "dumping me"? Haha that's not what happened. At all, also not what I said, which just proves this whole discussion is pointless.
Have a nice day

a reply to: Peeple

So since Justice is a universal constant, what's really going on here is that you're pissed and can't get over it.

That means you are the only one being punished.

Maybe you feel this "Love" you had is worth torturing yourself over to prove to yourself that you're a great lover? Or to prove you were good and right and that he was bad and wrong?

Regardless of your reasoning, it isn't sound logic as you are the one suffering.

You said twice this guy should be killed, but I am not convinced that sounds reasonable at all.

I don't see how harming anyone for breaking your heart can be considered just. It is clearly unjust.

Justice is Love and Forgiveness, and this breaks the vicious cycles of negativity in your life via Healing.

The only way to Heal is to release yourself from the chain that harms you. You must totally Let it Go.

And just get the # over it. Who cares what he does or what happens? This isn't about him it's about You and Yours.

You can't stress yourself out over him like this, it's going to cause ulcers diseases and cancer. That's a scientific fact. You're killing yourself and making it much worse.

You are literally and figuratively holding the burning coal and refusing to drop it. So now you're being scarred and burnt, deeper and deeper, because you refused to Let it Go.

I know you aren't seeing clearly because you're in the middle of it and are upset.

But one day soon, when you finally reach the bottom of that pit you're digging for yourself, you will realize I told you Pure Truth about this.

You WILL be OK - but not until you get over this hurdle and let go of the baggage.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: muzzleflash

For "dumping me"? Haha that's not what happened. At all, also not what I said, which just proves this whole discussion is pointless.
Have a nice day

Nothing is pointless.

Like your pain, it has a point. It exists to teach you better.

You are punishing yourself because you believe you deserve that.

I am here to help by challenging your beliefs via the logical process.

I am trying my best not to be harsh, as I'm a soft person. But if I absolutely must, I'll cut through all of it and get right to the bottom of it.

Here's reality:
You have become a bitter and resentful person, cynical and suspicious, angry and accusatory.

You aren't in control of your feelings or ideas and claim others made you feel or think this way. You lack discipline and patience.

That's why I said you're rotting to the core by holding this poison inside you.

Your words have become venom because it's intent is to harm someone or something else for your choice to feel this way over something you believe they did wrong.

My intent is to Heal others, even the most guilty among us.

I do not see you as an innocent perfect little angel, so what about the Justice you deserve? What about the hearts you broke?

What about my heart 3 years ago when I fell for you? Yeah you don't even care what cruelty I felt you do to me.

But this guy broke your heart now you're mad? This IS Justice for me, actually, and yet I forgave and moved on in pure Love and accepted I lost yet again. I allowed God to sort it all out.

Now look where we are.
You're miserable and rotten and I'm doing just fine considering I am paying a huge price for my mistakes.

I'm honestly glad you turned me down and made me feel like crap. I'd never be Happy in such a toxic relationship with a rotten cesspool of hate anger resentment vengeance etc.

You sure pushed my buttons because I didn't want to say this but I think you need the harsh truth today.

You are your own problem. Bottom line.

originally posted by: SailorJerry
a reply to: Peeple

And I'm sorry but forgiveness is just not my style. That's not causing any pain or suffering.

Not for anyone else it's not, but it sure seems to be doing so for you ✌️😉

What I think when I hear someone say "Forgiveness isn't my thing", I cannot help but scoff.

All of these things; pain resentment anger hate, or even love kindness and compassion - or even forgiveness - are all human things.

They all apply to every single last person.

They are 100% human nature.

So someone saying they don't or won't forgive is rot. It's poison.

They are in denial of their own nature. They are reckless and undisciplined with their feelings and aren't bothering to honestly question themselves or address their flaws.

It's bonafide insanity.
There is no logical process that denies human nature. This is the proverbial train wreck in slow motion because it's all stubbornness and self destructive.

Forgiveness is ALL our thing, and if one doesn't learn it they are condemning themselves to a life of self inflicted hellish torment.

When I hear them say this, and tons of people say it, it's so damned ignorant that I know immediately I don't want to have any relationship with them, not even a fling.

It's not worth it to suffer. Misery loves company but I won't be hanging around. I can't stand it because it frustrates me endlessly and I'm liable to start laying down the harsh truth.

I don't go looking for trouble and when I find it I get the # away as fast as possible.

I seek a healthy relationship with a wonderful, thoughtful, compassionate woman who will recognize my devotion, loyalty, and commitment and appreciate my authenticity.

A woman that doesn't believe in forgiveness almost certainly screams daily, cusses and rants, accuses in anger, etc.

It's all BS and destructive.

You can never find happiness with someone like this. They refuse to accept their own flaws and so therefore are perfect and so everything is everyone else's fault. Your fault mainly.

So I don't even respond to them once I find out they deny their own nature. I just ignore them till they are done then let them go torture some other unlucky soul.

You can't have productive conversations about Spiritual growth with someone who wants to control others. Completely consumed in lies and selfishness.

They may claim compassion but it's not their thing to be compassionate when it matters the most.

All BS and not worth it. I'd rather be single honestly if that's how it'll be.