How Can a Senator Vote to Remove President Trump After Learning How He Makes Our Lives Better?

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Sanders and Warren were campaigning in Iowa yesterday during the Senate Impeachment trial.

a reply to: YouSir

I see what you're saying, but I still stand by my point.

While I believe, like you, there is elements of social engineering... That's not an excuse, it's part of the problem.

Our society lacks accountability and has for some time. People either want someone to blame, or a savior. There are no saviors if we don't hold ourselves, and those we elect accountable. It has to be part of our culture.

Personal responsibility... A taboo term these days. We don't want to admit we have inherent problems, deeper than the surface of government.

We could blame the media, but not very many people actually consume cable media on a daily basis. If less than half of the people vote on average, there's a big problem right there.

We live in an age where we can access whatever information we want. Blaming the low hanging fruit of information (MSM) just doesn't cut it for me.

I see no salvation in either side... The only remedy is if the populace of a whole wakes up to their complacency, willful ignorance, and outright apathy and laziness.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

You are only thirty, you have not seen much of anything yet. If you were in your fifties or more, and had seen a lot of what has happened over the decades, I would pay more attention to you.

Since my daughters have turned over thirty five, their view of the wrong in the progressive lefts has increased and they are now going towards the middle and even a little conservative. Both do not like Trump but are now starting to lean more conservative because they have seen the great amount of bs and corruption in the progressive movement. Both have gained under Trump, the increase in their overall household income and job security is noticeable. My oldest daughter is married to a Resident alien, hispanic, and is concerned about some immigration changes but has learned that the benefits of the present economy under Trump is helping her family.

Maybe you should talk to more people in the legal immigration families how they are doing under trump. Trump's policies puts citizens first but also helps legal immigrants get better income from jobs. The illegals coming into California are not getting as good of income when considering cost of living than the citizens there, most are barely making it. Legal immigrants here are making the same as they would make if they were citizens, many people even praise them for doing things right in aspect to immigration and will give these people a chance to get ahead.

The Democrats cannot comprehend that conservatives take care of their own most times and legal immigrants are part of their own. My grandparents immigrated to this country legally, I am not going to slam someone else for coming here legally.

a reply to: rickymouse

That's fair and I'd be willing to bet I'll share a similar sentiment when I'm older towards younger generations.

I voted for Trump, but my reasons for doing so have been fruitless, for me. Maybe that's selfish, but it is what it is. Personally I don't think much has been done to fair well for the masses in the test of time, but it's my personal opinion and am open to the idea I may be wrong. I hope om wrong.

My lean varies by the compass test on left vs right dependant on the test... But I lean pretty heavily libertarian for what it's worth.

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: carewemust

A vote to remove President Trump from office, is telling Americans that you do not want them to have a better quality of life. That is probably political suicide.. isn't it?

They don't care. "By any means necessary"

Apparently, they aren't using just any means. They seem to have settled upon one notated in the US Constitution.

Perhaps the meme should be retired?

Come on, man.

That's not how it works. It's like saying, "How can anyone convict (insert random person on trial) of intoxicated manslaughter when he's done so much good for our local economy over the years?" It's a trial, not a popularity contest.

That being said, I do support the idea of censure over removal in this case. Did he do something very wrong? Yes. Do I think he had any clue it was wrong? No. I don't think he had any idea what he was doing was improper, and he certainly refuses the advice of those around him who did know it was improper. Further, his narcissism would not allow him to say, "oops, I didn't know." As is usually the case, his mouth made things far worse.

Those who claim Trump's wanton and deliberate abuse of power, as well as those who declared the entire thing a farce from the very second the investigation began, are simply doing so because their political cult masters have told them how to think, and they can't divert from the cult belief.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Trump has been so busy fighting off crap from the left at every crossroad it is lucky he has got anything done. I voted for Trump because of how bad a deceiver Hillary was, not because I backed trump. I also looked at the VP each had and Hillary's VP was way to much of a chaotic jerk to even consider being president, he is as bad as Schiff.

I lost respect for Bernie now, and so did my daughters who used to back him. In fact one daughter is the person who said I should not consider him and gave facts that I researched well and they are true, and I no longer support Bernie anymore.

I thought about voting independent last election, but because I dislike Hillary's disreguard of the rules, I did not want to take a chance of her getting in office. Trump follows rules way way more than Hillary does. Hillary would have targeted anyone talking bad about her and sent the police to investigate them if they did what people are doing to Trump. We would have already lost our right to say anything bad against the Dems on the net if she had won, Kerry made it plain what he wanted to do with our freedom of speech.

a reply to: rickymouse

Trump has been fighting the left every step of the way... But a lot of that is because he likes to. He dishes it as much as he takes it, and like you, I voted for him... But quickly wished he would just chill out and shake off the shade and let his work speak for itself.

The way he talks on Twitter and baits people, I can't feel sorry for him when it garners a response.

He was the first time I strayed from an independent/third party vote for president too. Still don't regret it, I just won't fall over my own feet praising him.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: carewemust

How Can a Senator Vote to Remove President Trump After Learning How He Makes Our Lives Better?

While I think Trump was better than the alternative.... My life is vastly similar to before his election, and I'd venture to guess that's the case for many Americans. Federal spending is still going up (congress, but he's signed off on some of it), debt is still increasing... So to me, he's similar to his predecessors.

That said, I don't think he should be removed.

how do those two metrics affect you on a personal level?

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: laughingdog
a reply to: carewemustWinning is fun! S&F

It would be more fun if all Americans could WIN together!

If EVERY U.S. Senator could see that the U.S. House Impeachment of President Trump was nothing more than a Kangaroo Coup, and vote to ACQUIT him tomorrow.

Every senator does, in fact, know this is a kangaroo coup. Even Adam Schiff knows Trump is innocent. Why did he read a fake transcript? Check and mate.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: carewemust

How Can a Senator Vote to Remove President Trump After Learning How He Makes Our Lives Better?

While I think Trump was better than the alternative.... My life is vastly similar to before his election, and I'd venture to guess that's the case for many Americans. Federal spending is still going up (congress, but he's signed off on some of it), debt is still increasing... So to me, he's similar to his predecessors.

That said, I don't think he should be removed.

how do those two metrics affect you on a personal level?

It may not now, but it will.

This country is running on borrowed money. I'm young, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'll see the day of reckoning.

But honestly I don't vote for politicians to really effect my personal life. Ideally they shouldn't. I'm 99.9% accountable for my personal life and what happens in it. Hoping politicians will have a positive impact on it is foolish IMO. The only thing I vote on in terms of personal life is against those I know will have a negative impact with laws and such.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Masterjaden

It's kinda funny. If socialism improved lives where it was instituted, in have a feeling conservatives would be open to it. Instead it has destroyed every place it's been tried

I'm not a fan of the far left, I also don't think their policies would work in America like they do in Europe with smaller populations.... But that statement is untrue.

I assume by socialism you mean Healthcare and college. It works a few places in Europe. On the inverse, capitalism has hurt some countries, mainly because larger ones exploit them. Look at a lot of South America.

I don't think we can speak in absolutes on that.

Further more, much of the right wing don't support a truly free market. Much of our industries are subsidized.... Creating an edge for those who receive it (corporate socialism).

Well spoken, and all very true.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: carewemust

what the hell ???????????????

if any president has broken the law , violated thier oath of office - and committed impeachable offences - then any sane sanator should vote impeach - if the evidence is compelling

is this a trick question ???

any " good things " - they have done - are irrelevant

having said that this impeachement is a farce - that even eclipses the brexit fiasco my nation has to endure - and trump should not be imbeached for the crap presented by the democrat idiots

It goes without saying, given the actual evidence, that the President did nothing at all wrong, so I suspect the thread is more about putting crazy party politics above the American people.

Democrat Senators need to break from the cooks like in their party or they are all going to smell of the same sh*t than Schiff does.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Masterjaden

It's kinda funny. If socialism improved lives where it was instituted, in have a feeling conservatives would be open to it. Instead it has destroyed every place it's been tried

I'm not a fan of the far left, I also don't think their policies would work in America like they do in Europe with smaller populations.... But that statement is untrue.

I assume by socialism you mean Healthcare and college. It works a few places in Europe. On the inverse, capitalism has hurt some countries, mainly because larger ones exploit them. Look at a lot of South America.

I don't think we can speak in absolutes on that.

Further more, much of the right wing don't support a truly free market. Much of our industries are subsidized.... Creating an edge for those who receive it (corporate socialism).

Well spoken, and all very true.

Thanks man... I just think socialism has been turned into a buzzword and stripped of its original meaning, and any subject of nuance killed with socialism.

True socialism is when there is no private industry. While I can see how people would see switching from private to public Healthcare as socialism... It's just a small sector that many have done. I haven't seen a proposal to do so by a politician I agree would work, but it also doesn't make me get the red fever to humor the topic. We don't see k-12 as socialism, hell, America helped make public schooling a norm in today's world.

But it's a nuanced subject, and I don't think it's black and white that one side is free market and the other is socialist. Personally I think both sides have flaws in each area which leads me to believe politicians are just typically corrupt and find ways to enrich themselves at the expense of their constituents.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: tanstaafl
He campaigned on reducing debt and called Obama out on it during his admin. While I know that it more of congresses job, he had a republican congress for two years and didn't get it done. His promises, not mine.

Yeah, made without realizing just how impossible of a task it is, without changing our entire monetary system.

It isn't possible to pay down, much less pay off the debt. There isn't enough 'money' in circulation to do it if you took every cent.

a reply to: tanstaafl

You do it the same way someone gets out of personal debt.

Spend less than you earn, and start paying it off.

The US federal debt is a little above its annual revenue. There are plenty of people who are in debt above what they make in a year (which is part of the national debt).

The US could address both. On a federal side, cut spending, plain and simple.

The public side is a bit trickier. But still, it could be done. We need to learn our lessons from 08` and work to address the causes and remaining underlying issues that just got a band-aid slapped on it for another day.

originally posted by: Pyle
Pretty simple, Trump did something wrong. Past actions don't absolve you of future wrongdoings.

I want you to tell me EXACTLY what law he broke to be impeached.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: carewemust

How Can a Senator Vote to Remove President Trump After Learning How He Makes Our Lives Better?

While I think Trump was better than the alternative.... My life is vastly similar to before his election, and I'd venture to guess that's the case for many Americans. Federal spending is still going up (congress, but he's signed off on some of it), debt is still increasing... So to me, he's similar to his predecessors.

That said, I don't think he should be removed.

Mine is similar too, and will probably stay that way until Free Market health insurance returns. That's how I earned by living, before ObamaCare outlawed it.

But the big picture is what counts. Americans in general, are better off today, than they were under Obama.

I hear there are some in Congress who are boycotting tonight's State of the Union briefing? If true, that's very selfish of them!

originally posted by: PurpleFox

originally posted by: Pyle
Pretty simple, Trump did something wrong. Past actions don't absolve you of future wrongdoings.

I want you to tell me EXACTLY what law he broke to be impeached.

Title code 2 Chpater 17B, and US Constitution Article II, Section 4, specificlly Bribery and "High crime and Misdemeanors" (for a layman that would mean abuse of power) for trying to solicit a foreign power to use its power in exchange for money earmarked for military aid. Also for trying to hide this fact by denying congressional oversight before and during the impeachment investigation.

If you have any other questions feel free to read the following:

HIC report detailing evidence.

HJC Report on Articles of Impeachment

Between the two is all the evidence for my above claims I dont have character space to list it all out.