Corona Virus Updates Part 2

Epoch Times, China’s own scientists questioning virus origin

Epoch Times

It’s partially behind a freewall, email address get you 20 articles a month.

Key excerpt;

A social media user named Wu Xiaohua, with a Ph.D. in biological related fields according to his WeChat profile, challenged Shi to answer key questions about the suspicious gene mutations found in the new virus. Wu pointed out there is no way that these mutations are the outcome of natural recombination.

originally posted by: slatesteam
a reply to: Oppenheimer67

Thank you for your reply. I’m not talking about effectiveness vs. viruses. I’m talking about this one.


Do these masks work vs This One in particular?

Please keep in mind about mask.
The ones you see in the health industry and those wearing them when high air pollution and pollen is in the air, they are the same.
Your N95 mask as stated has different qualities to them.
If you go to the hospital you'll more then likely just see them wearing the surgical type of mask and that must be fitted properly. They come in Large and Small sizes. If you are looking for mask, I'd try your local hospitals gift shop or whatever they are called. Here they are more of a convenience style type of store and yes, we do carry them. The grade they sell seems to be about the same as we see many health care working in the hospital.
The fact is, if you are in contact with someone having the virus and only wearing a mask and not wearing eye wear, you ARE AT RISK.

I've stayed away from the mask point of having to wear them because there are all types of dust mask out there and the fact that 3 in the medical profession have given me a "negative" look about their effectiveness. No comments , just a look and there is a reason for that.
So, at least if you go outside, were a handkerchief or bandana and please start buying them 1 dollar glasses at the dollar store for eye protection.

originally posted by: slatesteam
a reply to: Oppenheimer67

Thank you for your reply. I’m not talking about effectiveness vs. viruses. I’m talking about this one.


Do these masks work vs This One in particular?

Hi, sorry I'm not sure a study has been done at this early stage. I have a vague memory of seeing something somewhere but can't seem to put my hand on it.

Basically I think it's too early to say. There are studies which show very small viruses can make it through. Something like 5% making it through on a 30nm sized virus. nCoV is said to vary between 60 and 140nm in size, similar to Influenza at 80-120nm. So this (roughly) is the basis on which it is believed N95 are effective. Not 100% confidence, but it is much more likely that you will inhale fresh infected air through the sides of a higher grade disposable. If in doubt, and you can afford it, buy a half face or full face respirator with higher grade filters.

Edit: Background for readers, this is to do with the effectiveness of N95 masks

originally posted by: slatesteam
a reply to: Oppenheimer67

Nope. In no way was I wrong about they meaning different things.

Tomayto, tohmahtoe

Ie: airborne is carried by the air

Aerosol: dispersed by a fog or cloud

So while , yes they are similar, they do imply different things at different times for different reasons.

* I like dictionaries, what can I say?

I'm confused, did I say something different? I don't remember saying you were wrong about anything?

a reply to: misfit312

Didn’t know about Ebola. Heard locusts were mounting an offensive in Africa

Side Note: not trying to derail as with norovirus, but isn’t China in the midst of an emerging H1N1 epidemic also?

a reply to: Oppenheimer67

No. You’re good. Just not dictionary’s definition

a reply to: slatesteam

Cheers, sorry I was confused, getting late.

originally posted by: Oppenheimer67

originally posted by: SpartanStoic
a reply to: Oppenheimer67

From what I read since SARS you are correct. In China we always kept N95s around coz pollution and viruses.

The odd thing is they keep saying in humid environments this virus doesn’t do well.

I still thinks it’s spreading by aerosol and now CCP has said that directly. This means we should continue to see numbers outside China go up.

'Aerosol' is a bit ambiguous. I didn't like that rumour because it made out 'aerosol' is a new way of transmission. This is not true. Aerosol is most often used to describe sneeze and cough. Just another form of airborne. The type of airborne described in the rumour is possible, see measles. That would be terrifying. But when they described it as aerosol I smelled a rat.

I must admit though, seeing those videos of the spraying in China, I did at the time think it looked almost like they were trying to disinfect the air itself.

The humid environment thing I have seen research to suggest Influenza is less contagious in high humidity environments. I've not read it, but yeah, to me it was counter-intuitive.

I'm thinking that with high humidity the virus particles are more likely to be captured by water molecules and rendered less likely to travel very far in the open air. Luckily I am in Florida. Humidity we have LOTS of.

a reply to: Oppenheimer67
Nope. Again you’re good. Much like most here your insight is indispensable. Mine is philosophical and thus, not very useful. All I’m good for is bringing nibbles to the table in hopes that others with more professionalism and technical expertise guide those of us that are covered in sand from the sandbox of life.

If anything I come across as obtuse and confrontational. Not my aim, but we can’t help but be who we are.

I applaud all input an breadcrumbs, but like most here, I suspect the OS and “official numbers” lack the quality conspiratorial value that I believe is unfolding and happening in real time.

It’s easy to get caught up in these things. I apologize to mods and members if I’m a d*%# or appear to be so.
I ain’t trynna pick fights at all. I just think what we are being told vs. what is actually occurring, is so far removed from the reality of this situation that it boggles the mind.

I’m gonna let this dog lie for the moment. Appreciation to all that have offered up your insight and valuable commentary.

Wish mine was more helpful

Dog is laying down because of N-Cov

originally posted by: misfit312
a reply to: texasgirl

Don't they have Ebola in the DRC right now? There is also another mystery illness going around in Nigeria. That whole area is another perfect storm waiting to happen.

Yes, they are currently battling an Ebola outbreak. It's one scary disease.

As far as the mystery illness in Nigeria, I think the official cause was ethanol poisoning.

originally posted by: Rich Z

originally posted by: Oppenheimer67
Evidence to suggest tests may give false negatives 50-70% of the time

www.yicai.com...

"Not all patients can detect nucleic acid positives. For patients who are really infected with the new type of coronavirus, there are only The positive rate is 30% to 50%."

Excuse the dodgy translation

Which likely means the only truly accurate test is the subject coming out clean from the quarantine period. And I'm not really sure anyone knows exactly how long that needs to be.

Then for those that fail this test, the next test is to live long enough to be considered as "recovered".

But does "recovered" mean "permanently non-infectious"? I don't think anyone really knows the absolute answer to that one neither.

Lovely.....

IMHO.

well based on this, you'd need to test someone 13 times to be 99% sure they are not infected. If my maths is correct. I really need sleep. I do believe China is working on alternative tests though. This was a while ago though so they hopefully have those now.

Your point on the meaning of recovered is a good one too. The idea is that you have built up enough immunity so that the virus can longer survive in your body. i.e. you are completely clear of the virus and cannot be reinfected. You may be left with other things such as lung damage, possibly other organ damage, but you are at least considered recovered from the virus.

With things like Ebola hiding in very remote locations in your body though, you can test clear, only to re-infect yourself much much later.

Immunity may last 6 months until your body essentially forgets how to be immune to this particular virus, but the virus may have mutated by then anyway so although you may have some residual immunity, it may not be as effective against the mutated virus. Hopefully this one would be less severe though.

Lot of "hopefully"s in there.

originally posted by: Brick17

originally posted by: SpartanStoic
Hey hey hey

Let’s stay on topic -

Virus
Theories
CCP handling of virus
Chinese people under quarantine
Crematorium

That stuff.

Personal attacks are MSM material as demonstrated daily.

We are ATS let’s act like it.

If you disagree that’s fine. We shouldn’t insult others or get angry about it.

We all agree -

Virus bad
CCP bad
WHO idiots
Numbers wrong

We should be out there trying to understand if it’s airborne and what that means for the spread. Hopefully no one here has to deal with it.



End mini rant.

Earlier on in the thread there was a picture of a Chinese soldier checking people's temperature at a vehicle check point. Taken from the view inside the car. The PLA soldier was in full kit, weapons, helmet, chest rig webbing etc. With a white mask on.

So from my perspective, casting my military eye on that clip:

1. The civil situation has worsened or they are prepared for civil unrest/desperate people. Why? Carriage of weapons and kit carried.

2. He was not wearing any CBRN kit, which is a good sign. No suit, respirator or gloves. He only wore a civvie made mask and normal contact type gloves. Which can only be good. Because whatever the contact issues are with the virus they don't seem to warrant fill cat Romeo 05. If the contact was really bad he would have been wearing a full suit, over boots etc, then decon afterwards, bin and replenish for another stag. Also the way the virus travels through the air doesn't seem to warrant his respirator.

3. He was wearing eye protection, military issued. But that might just be his decision.

Excellent Brick17...keep the analysis coming!!

originally posted by: texasgirl

These health workers have been ordered not to speak publicly about the virus that has killed *hundreds* around the world.

I will tell you, this worries me more than anything. All governments deciding to stonewall real information in order to try to prevent worldwide panic. So that just leaves everyone in the dark with no information about what is really going on. Then 5 days after you last went to the grocery store, where you noticed a few people coughing and sneezing, you get a nagging cough and headache....

Which is why I am now here. I think there is a far better chance I might learn about local conditions here than through any other source I am aware of. But even then, surely this site isn't universally known. But what are you going to do? Count on CNN to give you the truth? Yeah, right....

originally posted by: Rich Z

originally posted by: Oppenheimer67

originally posted by: SpartanStoic
a reply to: Oppenheimer67

From what I read since SARS you are correct. In China we always kept N95s around coz pollution and viruses.

The odd thing is they keep saying in humid environments this virus doesn’t do well.

I still thinks it’s spreading by aerosol and now CCP has said that directly. This means we should continue to see numbers outside China go up.

'Aerosol' is a bit ambiguous. I didn't like that rumour because it made out 'aerosol' is a new way of transmission. This is not true. Aerosol is most often used to describe sneeze and cough. Just another form of airborne. The type of airborne described in the rumour is possible, see measles. That would be terrifying. But when they described it as aerosol I smelled a rat.

I must admit though, seeing those videos of the spraying in China, I did at the time think it looked almost like they were trying to disinfect the air itself.

The humid environment thing I have seen research to suggest Influenza is less contagious in high humidity environments. I've not read it, but yeah, to me it was counter-intuitive.

I'm thinking that with high humidity the virus particles are more likely to be captured by water molecules and rendered less likely to travel very far in the open air. Luckily I am in Florida. Humidity we have LOTS of.

That makes sense, thank you! Oh and Florida... you lucky bas#.....

a reply to: slatesteam


It's H5N1, actually. I haven't heard anything more about it in the last several days. Wonder if it's under control?

Dealing with coronavirus and bird flu would be even more awful.

originally posted by: slatesteam
a reply to: Oppenheimer67
Nope. Again you’re good. Much like most here your insight is indispensable. Mine is philosophical and thus, not very useful. All I’m good for is bringing nibbles to the table in hopes that others with more professionalism and technical expertise guide those of us that are covered in sand from the sandbox of life.

If anything I come across as obtuse and confrontational. Not my aim, but we can’t help but be who we are.

I applaud all input an breadcrumbs, but like most here, I suspect the OS and “official numbers” lack the quality conspiratorial value that I believe is unfolding and happening in real time.

It’s easy to get caught up in these things. I apologize to mods and members if I’m a d*%# or appear to be so.
I ain’t trynna pick fights at all. I just think what we are being told vs. what is actually occurring, is so far removed from the reality of this situation that it boggles the mind.

I’m gonna let this dog lie for the moment. Appreciation to all that have offered up your insight and valuable commentary.

Wish mine was more helpful

Dog is laying down because of N-Cov

Philosophers were the original scientists and go way beyond the current limits of our scientific accomplishments. don't sell yourself short.

watching Contagion right now since it predict the future

originally posted by: SpartanStoic
a reply to: slatesteam

According to reports the virus doesn’t do well or spread as quickly in humid climate.

I would think humidity would help the virus spread faster because it has small water droplets to bind to and float around.

Like you not a science dude unless you count IT or running/obstacle course racing as science.

Just guessing, but I would suppose that humidity binds into water droplets at dew point temperatures and drops to the ground. So that takes the virus particles out of the air. Again, just guessing...

a reply to: Rich Z

Coronavirus outbreak: Death toll surpasses total from SARS outbreak
Coronavirus deaths: Another 89 people died in China's Hubei province on Saturday, bringing the total death toll around the world to at least 813. The number of confirmed cases has risen to at least 27,100 in Hubei province alone, with the global number of infected now at more than 37,000 -- the vast majority in mainland China.
www.cnn.com...

originally posted by: toysforadults
watching Contagion right now since it predict the future

LOL, I just finished watching it an hour ago. It's very eerily similar to what we're witnessing in China right now. Gave me goose bumps!