Found Another Old Gun ! - Magnet Fishing with Trueman

a reply to: Trueman

A toy gun?

The detached barrel doesn't seem right.

I'm a pretty big fan of old firearms, and as much as I'd love to see it cleaned up for a better look I'm going to say it used to belong to a carbine.

It could have been taken apart and discarded, but it could have just as likely have been replaced with a new one. You can take the old stocks and barrels and if still good put em on a new revolver.

originally posted by: slapjacks
It's seems to be a standard revolver that's missing the barrel and the grip. Other than that pretty hard to tell.

Kinda make you wonder..who got killed by that gun? being cut up makes me think that.

I have seen derringer/pocket type pistols with no barrel

a reply to: Trueman

If that is a rifle it shouldnt be too hard to identify. In your 4th picture you can see a hinge pin. I cannot think of even one break action rifle with a cylinder.

a reply to: drewlander

I could be wrong on break action. Hard to say. One side looks like it may have a feed ramp to load the rounds.

Should send a pic to Ian at Forgotten Arms youtube channel, the hammer looks unique..rifle like.
There were some rifles with a cylinder waaay back, or I guess they could of been called revolvers with extended length barrel, and shoulder stock, maybe detachable.

deleted, many people pointed out the same things

a reply to: chr0naut

Not a toy gun. I'm sure 100%. I found toy guns before.

a reply to: vonclod

I didn't know about that channel. Thanks !

a reply to: Trueman

Another interesting find!

Okay, let's see what we've got here...I'm going to say it's a toy or some kind of a replica. There are a couple reasons...

First, the cylinder size is less than 1" long. A .22 long rifle rimfire cartridge is 25.4mm in overall length (exactly 1"). And, just judging by the diameter of the cylinder I'd say it is less than 1" in diameter as well. So, if it was real, it would be a very small caliber firearm.

Second, the style of the firearm is fairly modern, but judging by the amount of rust present it suggests the metal was of very low quality. Again, pointing to a toy.

Third, if you look carefully, in your left side photo, you will see a hinge pin right at the very top of the trigger. This is not how a typical trigger works. Normally a trigger would be pinned up inside the frame up about level with, and forward of, the sear. If this were real, the trigger-pull would be impossibly heavy to overcome the main spring. And, a spring light enough to be overcome by this mechanical arrangement would not be sufficient to fire the primer (even in a rimfire cartridge).

Additionally, there appears to be another hinge pin on the lower front of the piece suggesting it might be some kind of a break-action like an old Iver Johnson Safety Automatic. If this were the case there would be additional metal in this area, a protruding circular area to strengthen the action at this point. I don't see that.

Forth, if you look at the tip of the hammer you can see an area broken away like there was some kind of a coating on this piece, say something like chrome maybe (?). Normally, the hammer on a firearm is one of the harder steels and a plating process wouldn't leave that much material in this area. In other words, it looks like a cheap chrome job over some pot metal which would further indicate a toy or replica of some sort.

Now on to a couple of other interesting observations which I can't quite understand (and which argue the toy/replica theory). ...

Interestingly, on the right side there appears to be an area where there used to be a loading gate which is now missing or broken away, and immediately forward of this area there appears to be an indentation in the cylinder where a cartridge would go. Also, corresponding with the area where the loading gate should be there is a concave groove similar to what you would see on an 1882 Schmidt. These would not be things I would expect to see on a toy.

Summary - Hard to say what it is for certain. If it's real, it's almost certainly a small caliber like a .22LR.

Best I can do at 04:15am in the morning.

Cheap Saturday Night Special I'm thinking,the rear frame loojs to have rusted or broken.The barrel may have rusted off as well,especially if black powder cartridges had been shot, considering how long it's probably been in the water.Neat find,whatever it is.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Best I can do at 04:15am in the morning.

That's more than I can say about guns any time of the day

a reply to: Brotherman

Definitely not a Dan Wesson! First of all Dan Wesson Arms wasn't even incorporated until 1968, and their first interchangeable barrel revolver wasn't introduced until 1971. Plus, a Dan Wesson frame is much larger than the one pictured.

They did make a .22LR version, but it was the same basic frame size as the .357. In fact, the idea was you switch out the barrel and cylinder of the .357 and turn it into a .22.

a reply to: Trueman

How much does the piece you found weigh?

I agree with FCD on it being either a toy or a replica gun.
The other photo angles provided show that there does not appear to be a hole in the front of the frame where the barrel attaches.

a reply to: Trueman

I really thought I did a better job getting rid of that thing...

in your picture #10, the butt of the gun looks like a slot with a piece of wire spring still intact.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

177.1 grams. But still has few grams of dirt.

a reply to: autopat51

No wires. All solid metal.

a reply to: Trueman

So .39 lbs.

It's not a real firearm.

That portion of any real firearm would easily weigh more than 1/2 a lb. I've got single shot derringer type pistols, way smaller, which weigh more than this (without the barrel). For example, the smallest Glock (the Glock 42) weighs in at 13.8 oz. (.86 lbs), and that pistol is made from 70% polymer even, not steel.

That said, it does weigh more than most toys, so I'm thinking some kind of replica.

ETA - Also, the way it's rusted makes me think the piece is cast metal of some type, not machined steel. It's definitely ferrous if you picked it up with your magnet so it has at least some iron content in it. Did it stick hard to your magnet, or just barely?

I'll bet if you tried heating part of it with something like a propane torch it would probably melt fairly easily. This would be another way to tell. A propane torch would never melt steel. Pot metals have a lot of zinc, tin and magnesium along with other stuff in them to keep the melting temperature low.