It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Why we need a space force
page: 1share:
The following video discusses why we need a Space Force. Dumb decisions of the past and their future consequences for the countries that were
unwilling to change in their set ways. Historical decisions and what is needed for the near future especially with regards to China's efforts to
catch up and pass. Whoever holds the high ground can dictate to those in the valley. The video is worth a listen when you have time or if you are
interested about what is needed for the future. youtu.be...
a reply to: Zcustosmorum
Made me chuckle, you mean the one that is supposed to have NOT existed for several decades now with technology far beyond what they eventually allow to filter down through corporate front's and patenting to the general public, but only eventually and very long after they have already developed a lot of that stuff or else reverse engineered it from ancient and/or possible alien technology.
We can laugh at that out of pure stupidity but in fact it was exactly what the NAZI's were doing, they were sending out expeditions, using psychics and medium's (except those they put into concentration camp's) to try to obtain ancient technology from around the world.
Just adding these for some enlightening light entertainment to add to the thread based on your comment so that other's whom may be less knowledgeable will get the humor.
Made me chuckle, you mean the one that is supposed to have NOT existed for several decades now with technology far beyond what they eventually allow to filter down through corporate front's and patenting to the general public, but only eventually and very long after they have already developed a lot of that stuff or else reverse engineered it from ancient and/or possible alien technology.
We can laugh at that out of pure stupidity but in fact it was exactly what the NAZI's were doing, they were sending out expeditions, using psychics and medium's (except those they put into concentration camp's) to try to obtain ancient technology from around the world.
Just adding these for some enlightening light entertainment to add to the thread based on your comment so that other's whom may be less knowledgeable will get the humor.
a reply to: 727Sky
I'm kind of on the fence about this subject. We need a space force because we've become so dependent on space (i.e. satellites, GPS, etc.). If we weren't so dependent on these things would we still need a space force? I'm not so sure.
GPS is a great example of putting all one's eggs in one basket. The US military, for example, would be hard pressed to function efficiently without GPS, if they could function at all. And Gawd forbid people had to pull out an actual "map" (remember those?) to find where they were going! That, or a compass.
And then there's the whole space junk issue. So we're going to spend trillions of dollars to create a force which can defend space. So how exactly is this going to work? Someone will be a winner, but at the end of the day everyone is a loser when there's so much debris from blasted satellites orbiting the Earth that no one can launch anything through the fusillade of wreckage traveling at 25,000 mph. Even today we have orbits which are dangerous due to debris. What will it be like after we blast a few hundred satellites and other space vehicles?
I'm kind of on the fence about this subject. We need a space force because we've become so dependent on space (i.e. satellites, GPS, etc.). If we weren't so dependent on these things would we still need a space force? I'm not so sure.
GPS is a great example of putting all one's eggs in one basket. The US military, for example, would be hard pressed to function efficiently without GPS, if they could function at all. And Gawd forbid people had to pull out an actual "map" (remember those?) to find where they were going! That, or a compass.
And then there's the whole space junk issue. So we're going to spend trillions of dollars to create a force which can defend space. So how exactly is this going to work? Someone will be a winner, but at the end of the day everyone is a loser when there's so much debris from blasted satellites orbiting the Earth that no one can launch anything through the fusillade of wreckage traveling at 25,000 mph. Even today we have orbits which are dangerous due to debris. What will it be like after we blast a few hundred satellites and other space vehicles?
a reply to: 727Sky
All the earth is going to need is a space Coast Guard. This will be for the mining operations in the asteroid belt and the Oort Cloud surrounding our solar system so that any emergency and/or rescue can be initiated.
As much as the romanticists on this site would like an extraterrestrial space conflict, it will never happen. The few space faring entities that are out there in this galaxy have signed treaties with each other to not have any armed conflict in space inside this Galaxy. Most if not all of the space-faring people in this galaxy are not looking for a fight, but do have excursions for research, educational, and even archaeological digs.
The earth and the solar system is kind of excluded from the rest of the galaxy so that we can work things out among ourselves. There will be some conflicts in the future, but being so horrendous they will facilitate space and earth treaties. Right now, we are the most violent people in our galaxy.
They are not the ones mutilating cows, but they have researched it and do know what it really is.
This is not to say that they are not equipped with defensive weapons; or tools that can be used for defensive weapons.
Thats all I have for now...
All the earth is going to need is a space Coast Guard. This will be for the mining operations in the asteroid belt and the Oort Cloud surrounding our solar system so that any emergency and/or rescue can be initiated.
As much as the romanticists on this site would like an extraterrestrial space conflict, it will never happen. The few space faring entities that are out there in this galaxy have signed treaties with each other to not have any armed conflict in space inside this Galaxy. Most if not all of the space-faring people in this galaxy are not looking for a fight, but do have excursions for research, educational, and even archaeological digs.
The earth and the solar system is kind of excluded from the rest of the galaxy so that we can work things out among ourselves. There will be some conflicts in the future, but being so horrendous they will facilitate space and earth treaties. Right now, we are the most violent people in our galaxy.
They are not the ones mutilating cows, but they have researched it and do know what it really is.
This is not to say that they are not equipped with defensive weapons; or tools that can be used for defensive weapons.
Thats all I have for now...
Even space has become political and to a certain point part of it is to protect our assets. With how media and information is transferred the
protection of said assets is a huge deal. Potentially lets say China ends up controlling space who's to say they wouldn't force their narrative on
the world and essentially cripple the pathways of communication for those that don't have the same beliefs or values.
It could potentially push technology and growth back several decades if important infrastructure etc is eliminated or tampered with.
It is less about protecting ourselves from aliens but from ourselves
It could potentially push technology and growth back several decades if important infrastructure etc is eliminated or tampered with.
It is less about protecting ourselves from aliens but from ourselves
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
Absolutely. Beyond GPS we have all our OTH communications systems up there. The existing Space Command setup, like pretty much everything else out of the Pentagon, doesn't work. You have three MAJCOMS for three services, that all have some degree of overlap.
That overlap is resulting in separate development and R&D of similar systems, disjointed counter programs, e.t.c. We need to consolidate them all if we're going to keep up with space. We currently don't even have an ASAT program of record. We have the SM-3, which can be used as an ASAT, but it's not a dedicated system. We had the ASM-135, that was carried by the F-15, and shot down the Solwind P78-1 satellite in 1985, but nothing on record since.
Absolutely. Beyond GPS we have all our OTH communications systems up there. The existing Space Command setup, like pretty much everything else out of the Pentagon, doesn't work. You have three MAJCOMS for three services, that all have some degree of overlap.
That overlap is resulting in separate development and R&D of similar systems, disjointed counter programs, e.t.c. We need to consolidate them all if we're going to keep up with space. We currently don't even have an ASAT program of record. We have the SM-3, which can be used as an ASAT, but it's not a dedicated system. We had the ASM-135, that was carried by the F-15, and shot down the Solwind P78-1 satellite in 1985, but nothing on record since.
Awesome speech. Definitely a lot of money to be made if you can cut down long distance travel from hours to minutes. Would a company like Boeing be
better of scrapping the complexity issues of 737 Max and go back to the drawing board with a fresh new design?
Who will be first to get their hands on the inside of the moon and start playing around with planetary drives? How much will one of those things be worth?
Some friendly competition with China at this stage does help with the motivation to get into all space does have to offer. I'm sure there will be many unexpected surprises along the way with other benefits we are yet to comprehend.
Who will be first to get their hands on the inside of the moon and start playing around with planetary drives? How much will one of those things be worth?
Some friendly competition with China at this stage does help with the motivation to get into all space does have to offer. I'm sure there will be many unexpected surprises along the way with other benefits we are yet to comprehend.
"Why we need a space force"
Because Star Wars IRL would be cool as hell.
That's the only reason I need.
Because Star Wars IRL would be cool as hell.
That's the only reason I need.
Heads up! We already have one.
We have eyes in the sky that can pinpoint and guide a ground based missile smack in the face of any target that looks like it's getting a little too froggy.
We have eyes in the sky that can pinpoint and guide a ground based missile smack in the face of any target that looks like it's getting a little too froggy.
Sounds like a giant suck-force
-of tax cash
...that'll be impossible to monitor
"We spent that 999 trillion on the Starship Enterprise guys, we promise!!"
Smh
-of tax cash
...that'll be impossible to monitor
"We spent that 999 trillion on the Starship Enterprise guys, we promise!!"
Smh
Jesus wept, now it's started.
First it was the Communists then the Taliban then Isis!!!! How many enemies do you want.
Listen very closely. It's about time America stopped with this global fear and warmongering.
America is NOT at war (except by their own making), America is NOT being attacked (not by Russians, Chinese and certainly NOT by aliens). So why with all this sabre rattling and prevalence for newer war machines.
Please look at the post of the X59. How much money is that cost up to now? And for what? A newer model of an old concept (look at all the Fs) still a jet plane with weapons.
I'll repeat again America is NOT under attack and not likely to be and is NOT going to war, unless they start one themselves. SO WHY? And don't say to be ready.
First it was the Communists then the Taliban then Isis!!!! How many enemies do you want.
Listen very closely. It's about time America stopped with this global fear and warmongering.
America is NOT at war (except by their own making), America is NOT being attacked (not by Russians, Chinese and certainly NOT by aliens). So why with all this sabre rattling and prevalence for newer war machines.
Please look at the post of the X59. How much money is that cost up to now? And for what? A newer model of an old concept (look at all the Fs) still a jet plane with weapons.
I'll repeat again America is NOT under attack and not likely to be and is NOT going to war, unless they start one themselves. SO WHY? And don't say to be ready.
a reply to: crayzeed
I don't know man-China are putting a lot of money and research into military space applications.
Would it be a good idea to let them have the higher ground so to speak?
Is there a possibility they could become a threat at a later date?
A decent space force would be able to prevent that from becoming a potential risk in the future.
I don't know man-China are putting a lot of money and research into military space applications.
Would it be a good idea to let them have the higher ground so to speak?
Is there a possibility they could become a threat at a later date?
A decent space force would be able to prevent that from becoming a potential risk in the future.
a reply to: crayzeed
It's common sense exactly as Silicone Synapse point's out, many of us do believe the US already does have military capability in Space, stealth satellites waiting for activation and targeting signals invisible from the ground and waiting for orders to drop there kinetic dart's onto designated targets from high orbit.
I would personally argue that even if it is no were near as advanced as some believe that even then the US does already have a sizable armada of weaponized assets in orbit designed with advanced stealth capability to be undetectable from the ground and that there may be rather a lot more of these assets than the rocket, military shuttle and other launches perhaps disguised as Civilian missions (there is no such thing) would account for since I am one that believes the US has had in the past at least one advanced magnetic launching facility - think about it like a cross between a rocket sled and a rail gun but designed to silently (there may have been boom sounds due to the far in excess of the sound barrier launching velocity's) put payloads into orbit and later iterations were probably more like giant rail gun's since the old style rocket sled track would have become a limiting factor - though they may very well have long since superseded it with more advanced technology (human's would require much larger launching systems as we need to more slowly accelerate to the necessary velocity but for solid state payloads built to withstand high acceleration G-force they may actually be fairly compact in size).
It is actually a VERY old idea, one that goes back to the birth of Rocketry though in it's original concept it was purely a rail or monorail system that would be assisted by rocketry to increase the payload velocity before it would be released via a ramp, think about it like a super advanced steam catapult launch system but built on or from very deep facility to surface launching door on land.
Why may they have and probably indeed did research and implement this technology, it is cheaper for repeat launch than a rocket system, no need for multiple stage launch, no rocket creating thermal launch signatures at least until the object is at orbital velocity and need's to make a course correction.
Once such a facility was built the turnaround for deployment to space of such asset's would be very high.
And it is the kind of facility and technology that if they had even an ounce of intelligence the private contract space company's would themselves be looking at.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
research.lifeboat.com...
Remember also there is the old saying about putting all your egg's in one basket, I am sure someone in the US government would have had the intelligence to realize that there were alternatives to using rocket technology for orbital insertion of assets.
Also worthy of Note as the Chinese now also claim to have rail gun technology - probably copied from the US via hacking and other method's they may also be investing in this technology for there own launch facility's but even then I suspect they would remain at the very least decades behind the US black budget and clandestine operations I believe have already born fruit in the past.
It is dangerous though as it may force them to embark on a race to the top if they even suspect the US is so far ahead of them.
Now give that this would once implemented by cheaper than rocket's let's imagine a civilian facility sometime in the future, let's imagine a space port that look's like a star from above with a central tower shaped a little like the natural formation called the Devil's Tower which is a volcanic plug but some believe on the fringe is actually the stump of a huge petrified tree (I love those dip's into what if).
en.wikipedia.org...
Now this tower would be taller and more slender but it is not the launch facility it just the ramp stage, lain around it and running up it's side's would be miles of acceleration track's at the far end of which would be the future equivalent of airport's and nearby huge landing air fields capable of accepting the glide to land return vehicles for reuse.
In orbit we may have stations and even without them this would provide a viable alternative to other forms of hyper sonic flight in a ground launch assisted take on that, you board your flight at one of the many terminal's after being brought there from the space port's main entrance area via more terrestrial means' such as monorail and there you would board the launch vehicle sitting in an acceleration seat, the craft would then slowly accelerate but while you felt yourself being pushed back by the G-force into your acceleration seat until it was exceeding hyper sonic speed's and then you would slowly move upward as your chair tilted with a short term increase in angular G-force pushing you deeper into your seat before you the G-force entirely eases as your craft moved up the ramped section then up the side of the tower at the center of the star like lay out of launch rail's and then once free of the rail system your craft would be catapulted with minor rocket adjustment's into orbit were it may then remain or else come down and land at a similar facility somewhere else on the planet half way around the world far faster than a plane journey would have taken just to fly you from one major city to another.
As you can see the initial overlay cost would be huge (but the US black budget could soak it up hundreds perhaps thousands of time's over) but in time it would pay for itself, reusable craft, less fuel use and the economic benefit's of such a high speed commercial/civilian application, it could in theory even deliver payloads to the moon and from there to other destination's but each of this type of space port has a distinct disadvantage, they would be huge facility's though you could build them underground to hide them from threatening observation.
It's common sense exactly as Silicone Synapse point's out, many of us do believe the US already does have military capability in Space, stealth satellites waiting for activation and targeting signals invisible from the ground and waiting for orders to drop there kinetic dart's onto designated targets from high orbit.
I would personally argue that even if it is no were near as advanced as some believe that even then the US does already have a sizable armada of weaponized assets in orbit designed with advanced stealth capability to be undetectable from the ground and that there may be rather a lot more of these assets than the rocket, military shuttle and other launches perhaps disguised as Civilian missions (there is no such thing) would account for since I am one that believes the US has had in the past at least one advanced magnetic launching facility - think about it like a cross between a rocket sled and a rail gun but designed to silently (there may have been boom sounds due to the far in excess of the sound barrier launching velocity's) put payloads into orbit and later iterations were probably more like giant rail gun's since the old style rocket sled track would have become a limiting factor - though they may very well have long since superseded it with more advanced technology (human's would require much larger launching systems as we need to more slowly accelerate to the necessary velocity but for solid state payloads built to withstand high acceleration G-force they may actually be fairly compact in size).
It is actually a VERY old idea, one that goes back to the birth of Rocketry though in it's original concept it was purely a rail or monorail system that would be assisted by rocketry to increase the payload velocity before it would be released via a ramp, think about it like a super advanced steam catapult launch system but built on or from very deep facility to surface launching door on land.
Why may they have and probably indeed did research and implement this technology, it is cheaper for repeat launch than a rocket system, no need for multiple stage launch, no rocket creating thermal launch signatures at least until the object is at orbital velocity and need's to make a course correction.
Once such a facility was built the turnaround for deployment to space of such asset's would be very high.
And it is the kind of facility and technology that if they had even an ounce of intelligence the private contract space company's would themselves be looking at.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
research.lifeboat.com...
Remember also there is the old saying about putting all your egg's in one basket, I am sure someone in the US government would have had the intelligence to realize that there were alternatives to using rocket technology for orbital insertion of assets.
Also worthy of Note as the Chinese now also claim to have rail gun technology - probably copied from the US via hacking and other method's they may also be investing in this technology for there own launch facility's but even then I suspect they would remain at the very least decades behind the US black budget and clandestine operations I believe have already born fruit in the past.
It is dangerous though as it may force them to embark on a race to the top if they even suspect the US is so far ahead of them.
Now give that this would once implemented by cheaper than rocket's let's imagine a civilian facility sometime in the future, let's imagine a space port that look's like a star from above with a central tower shaped a little like the natural formation called the Devil's Tower which is a volcanic plug but some believe on the fringe is actually the stump of a huge petrified tree (I love those dip's into what if).
en.wikipedia.org...
Now this tower would be taller and more slender but it is not the launch facility it just the ramp stage, lain around it and running up it's side's would be miles of acceleration track's at the far end of which would be the future equivalent of airport's and nearby huge landing air fields capable of accepting the glide to land return vehicles for reuse.
In orbit we may have stations and even without them this would provide a viable alternative to other forms of hyper sonic flight in a ground launch assisted take on that, you board your flight at one of the many terminal's after being brought there from the space port's main entrance area via more terrestrial means' such as monorail and there you would board the launch vehicle sitting in an acceleration seat, the craft would then slowly accelerate but while you felt yourself being pushed back by the G-force into your acceleration seat until it was exceeding hyper sonic speed's and then you would slowly move upward as your chair tilted with a short term increase in angular G-force pushing you deeper into your seat before you the G-force entirely eases as your craft moved up the ramped section then up the side of the tower at the center of the star like lay out of launch rail's and then once free of the rail system your craft would be catapulted with minor rocket adjustment's into orbit were it may then remain or else come down and land at a similar facility somewhere else on the planet half way around the world far faster than a plane journey would have taken just to fly you from one major city to another.
As you can see the initial overlay cost would be huge (but the US black budget could soak it up hundreds perhaps thousands of time's over) but in time it would pay for itself, reusable craft, less fuel use and the economic benefit's of such a high speed commercial/civilian application, it could in theory even deliver payloads to the moon and from there to other destination's but each of this type of space port has a distinct disadvantage, they would be huge facility's though you could build them underground to hide them from threatening observation.
edit on 19-12-2019 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: LABTECH767
Contrary to popular belief, the classified budget only accounts for 10-11% of the overall military budget. The budget request was for $718B, for all branches. Of that, $76B is for classified programs. That includes multiple hypersonic programs, the next generation fighter, the B-21, and other programs we don't know about.
The other common myth is the "$600 hammer" being used to cover black programs. The true story of that is far more mundane. There was no $600 hammer. The supposed actual cost was $432, but what really happened was that there was a bulk parts order that included hammers. When the order cost was broken down, all the parts were treated the same for engineering costs. That ended up showing a $15 hammer costing $432. It didn't change the actual cost, except on paper.
Contrary to popular belief, the classified budget only accounts for 10-11% of the overall military budget. The budget request was for $718B, for all branches. Of that, $76B is for classified programs. That includes multiple hypersonic programs, the next generation fighter, the B-21, and other programs we don't know about.
The other common myth is the "$600 hammer" being used to cover black programs. The true story of that is far more mundane. There was no $600 hammer. The supposed actual cost was $432, but what really happened was that there was a bulk parts order that included hammers. When the order cost was broken down, all the parts were treated the same for engineering costs. That ended up showing a $15 hammer costing $432. It didn't change the actual cost, except on paper.
What is this space force going to do for the economy once we do publicly have the technology to go to the stars? How much will it cost for a weekend
trip to Zeta Reticulli or one of the other of billion of stars out there?
What kind of trade route, exotic materials and exopolitical relationships will develop? I can understand the universe being reluctant in letting this door open while we are still happy to profit by killing and cheating each other here. If mankind can develop a more mature discourse in its interactions and productivity just how much more room is there for the economy to grow?
What kind of trade route, exotic materials and exopolitical relationships will develop? I can understand the universe being reluctant in letting this door open while we are still happy to profit by killing and cheating each other here. If mankind can develop a more mature discourse in its interactions and productivity just how much more room is there for the economy to grow?
new topics
-
Of course it was DEI
Dissecting Disinformation: 4 hours ago -
2nd Day Thanksgiving!...(leftovers!!)
General Chit Chat: 6 hours ago
top topics
-
Of course it was DEI
Dissecting Disinformation: 4 hours ago, 5 flags -
2nd Day Thanksgiving!...(leftovers!!)
General Chit Chat: 6 hours ago, 3 flags
active topics
-
Of course it was DEI
Dissecting Disinformation • 10 • : Dalamax -
I thought Trump was the existential threat?
World War Three • 123 • : RickyD -
-@TH3WH17ERABB17- -Q- ---TIME TO SHOW THE WORLD--- -Part- --44--
Dissecting Disinformation • 3417 • : brewtiger123 -
2nd Day Thanksgiving!...(leftovers!!)
General Chit Chat • 6 • : DontTreadOnMe -
Mass UAP events. DC. Machester Airport, UFOs over sub base in CT, Nuke bases.
Aliens and UFOs • 25 • : rickymouse -
New Disney Star Wars Films Failing Test of Time?
Movies • 18 • : Popoll -
Unidentified Flying Objects Over U.S. Military Bases in Northeast UK, as of roughly 11 a.m. CST.
Aliens and UFOs • 32 • : Kangawoo2 -
The Party of Peace - Trump Cabinet Picks Targeted with Death Threats
US Political Madness • 51 • : RazorV66 -
Results of the use of the Oreshnik missile system in Dnepropetrovsk
World War Three • 263 • : DontTreadOnMe -
Anyone like the Scorpions?
Music • 23 • : Flyingclaydisk