I Am An American

a reply to: tanstaafl

You said 'Europe'

I didn't say anything. That was someone else's post.

An armed society cannot be controlled. Had Germany not first eliminated the private ownership of guns before they started taking people away, the Natzis would have never been able to get away with what they did.

And i can counter that by saying it was an " armed society " that turned Russia into a communist state.

So what's your point ?

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: alldaylong
There is no law against being a Holocaust Denier in The U.K. So no, we don't go to jail.

You said 'Europe'.

We have the Right to Keep and Bear arms. Do you?

Apart from being a member of a Shooting Club, give me one good reason why anyone would need to own a firearm ?

And before you say the reason is to " protect yourself " , you have a police force that is employed to do that.

Rotflmao!!! Tell that to the relatives of people who have died waiting on the police to come and 'save them'.

Guns are used to prevent crimes and deaths every day, year round.

An armed society cannot be controlled. Had Germany not first eliminated the private ownership of guns before they started taking people away, the Natzis would have never been able to get away with what they did.

The fact that you are terrified of guns in private hands speaks volumes about your lack of a sense of responsibility for your own well being. You prefer the nanny state, that is ok, you're at least in the right country for it.

Yes many people are killed while waiting for the police.

In the US the majority of them are killed by guns.

a reply to: tanstaafl

What happens if you say anything contrary to the official 'holocaust' doctrine?

Nothing.
You might get slated and criticised but you certainly wouldn't be prosecuted or anything unless you actually promoted hate etc....but that's a different argument.

There are a small handful of holocaust deniers....they've never been prosecuted, just ridiculed for being stupid.

There is a lot of disinformation and downright lies regarding what happened - and no, I'm not a 'denier', I'm simply pointing out that the official story is anything but 100% accurate -....

Isn't it?
Please start a thread if you want to discuss the specifics of that, I'd hate to derail this thread.

..... but if you try to discuss that over there, you can go to jail.

Err....no you don't.

We have the Right to Keep and Bear arms. Do you?

We don't want it.....our CHOICE.

Keep yours, that's entirely up to you.....

If you want to discuss that then again, start a thread on the subject and I'll gladly contribute.

I really don't know where you are getting this nonsense from but it really is absolute bollocks.

originally posted by: Freeborn
you certainly wouldn't be prosecuted or anything unless you actually promoted hate etc

Well there ya go...

Laws against hate speech are the foundation for laws against any kind of speech politicians and radical activists want to outlaw - all they have to do is declare it 'hate speech'.

Freedom of speech allows for all kinds of speech, even hate speech - as long as you are not actually inciting violent action - like AntiFA (those radical Anti-FirstAmendment violent morons).

"... but if you try to discuss that over there, you can go to jail.

Err....no you don't.

Err... yes, you do.

"We have the Right to Keep and Bear arms. Do you?"

We don't want it.....our CHOICE.

I guess it must be kindof comforting being a brainwashed sheep.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Hate speech = inciting violence.

Pretty simple.

Your own link states that laws have been proposed both in the UK and the US but have not been actually made into law.
So the FACT remains you absolutely CAN NOT be jailed for denying the holocaust in the UK.

You should however be pilloried and ridiculed for being stupid and ignoring historical fact.

Brainwashed sheep?
Hardly, just recognising that what's right for one country is not necessarily right for another and that for all that we have in common there are some significant cultural differences between our two country's.

You think you have it right over there and that is entirely up to you and your fellow countryfolk, we believe we have it right for us here in the UK.

That you seem completely unable or incapable to understand and respect that speaks far more about you than it does me.

Sorry, but I'm off to the pub now to not speak my mind and opinion and to be scared everything I say and think will be monitored, reported and I'll be imprisoned for the slightest infringement because we have absolutely no freedoms at all over here....zzzzzzzzzz

originally posted by: Freeborn
Sorry, but I'm off to the pub now...

Where you can still smoke outside of and enjoy a cask ale which I found out on my recent visit. Most places here tell you to stand 20' away which might as well be Siberia.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

When you ascend to the inner circle there are even places that still allow you to smoke INSIDE!

Got to shoot - not literally - my lifts here.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: tanstaafl

Hate speech = inciting violence.

Pretty simple.

Hardly - since that is a ludicrous presumption.

Your own link states that laws have been proposed both in the UK and the US but have not been actually made into law.

The very first paragraph also states:

"Holocaust denial, the denial of the systematic genocidal killing of approximately six million Jews in Europe by Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s, is illegal in 16 European countries and Israel. Many countries also have broader laws that criminalize genocide denial. Of the countries that ban Holocaust denial, some, such as Austria, Germany, Hungary, and Romania, were among the perpetrators of the Holocaust, and many of these also ban other elements associated with Nazism, such as the expression of Nazi symbols."

a reply to: tanstaafl

Hardly - since that is a ludicrous presumption.

What, so inciting violence upon people based on race or religion is not hateful?

..... is illegal in 16 European countries and Israel.

But NOT in the UK as you alleged.

Oh, and by the way; I criticised everyone from the newly elected UK government, the party's that stood against them, the monarchy, the Church of England, The Catholic Church, Muslims, the EU, fascists and communists, paedophiles, the establishment, our political system, Nicola Sturgeon, PC driven snowflakes and their hyper sensitivities and a whole host of other things tonight and guess what, I guarantee you I will not get a knock on the door off the secret police or be censured in any way shape or form for expressing my thoughts and opinions.

But of course we have no freedom of speech or thought here in the UK??????

I have no idea where you get such nonsense from but you really need to stop believing the utter #e and drivel you are spoon fed.

originally posted by: Freeborn
What, so inciting violence upon people based on race or religion is not hateful?

Get your words straight.

You said 'hate speech = inciting violence'.

I said that is a ludicrous presumption, because there is no one definition of 'hate speech'.

When I say that that trans people are suffering from a mental illness, and that there is no such thing as a man transitioning to a woman or vice versa, some people say that is hate speech - but it is clearly not inciting violence against anyone.

"... is illegal in 16 European countries and Israel."

But NOT in the UK as you alleged.

Nope. I said 'Europe', in response to you (or whoever) said 'Europe'.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: tanstaafl
Britain was around for thousands of years before The HRE.

Really? I'll admit I'm not a historian... but googling says that the Roman Emire was founded in 753BC, while the first king of England/Britain (Æthelstan) was in 927AD

Who do you think built Stonehenge ? The Romans ?

Apparently not the Brits...

Now I would be the one PMSL if I didn't have control of my bladder.

Best get that looked at.

As a rather belated point of order the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire were separate entities.

Slightly irrelevant but just for accuracy.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
As a rather belated point of order the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire were separate entities.

Slightly irrelevant but just for accuracy.

Point taken, thanks for the correction...

originally posted by: tanstaafl
Freedom of speech allows for all kinds of speech, even hate speech - as long as you are not actually inciting violent action...

To paraphrase another poster: "all it would take is for a bureaucrat to say that someone is 'inciting violent action' and BAM!, down comes the hammer of government."

I guess it must be kind of comforting being a brainwashed sheep.

Are you talking about americans who think they have absolute freedom of speech or are the only ones who can keep and bear arms?