Ban "Assault rifles!" Liberal Politicians Fear Violent Uprising by Americans.

Or US law enforcement.

Scary!

a reply to: chr0naut

Scary indeed especially when you consider the fact that law enforcment officers are trained to consider there own lives before considering anyone elses.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ChefFox

A quick look at the statistics of deaths by firearm can pretty much debunk everything you wrote.

America is the gun death capital of the world.

Nope. Only if you are a simpleton and dont understand basic stats

The stats are: more people are killed by firearms in one year, in America, than in one year in any other country in the world.

False...

First off, you don't count suicides because people are going to kill themselves regardless.

No, suicides are often done in a moment of mental anguish.

It is statistically demonstrable that fewer people commit suicide if they don't have access to guns and there are first hand reports of people choosing not to commit suicide because they found that they could not get a gun when they were at their worst point.

The US is like 34 on the list of countries with the highest suicide rates even though many other countries have limited access to firearms. That alone should tell you guns aren't really the issue.

It also doesn't tell me that guns are not an issue at all.

Second, simply stating more gun deaths doesn't tell you anything without getting into the demographics of the country and perpetrators.

Daily gun violence in America is largely an urban phenomenon among the black community specifically. This comprises the vast majority of gun homicides. If you look at the poster child of gun violence, Chicago, of the 467 deaths YTD, 375 are black. 62 are hispanic. So 92% of all murders are black and hispanic.

This distribution pretty much mirrors most major cities - atlanta, houston, baltimore, st. louis, LA, etc.

If you were to strip out all the black/ hispanic gun deaths, I'd posit the US would be on par or lower with European countries. The on thing those countries don't have is the large poor black and hispanic populations with gang culture that we have. Nearly all of the gun violence in these communities is committed with illegally owned firearms.

Mass shootings like Parkland, Columbine, etc are still exceedingly rare despite the incessant news coverage.

More people are beat to death than are killed with rifles of any kind. The feared AR-15 is basically a rounding error in gun death stats, yet leftist gun grabbers can't stop wanting to ban "assault" weapons. Only about 300 people a year are killed with a rife of ANY KIND. Handguns are the real issue.

We can't have an honest and open debate about this issue because those on the left refuse to even educate themselves on basic facts about guns and the demographics. You can't talk guns with people who think bullets fly around corners...

My country of birth, Australia, and the country in which I reside, New Zealand, have both banned assault rifles.

Our crime statistics and gun related statistics reflect that there are far fewer guns and far fewer deaths.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

Or US law enforcement.

Scary!

a reply to: chr0naut

Scary indeed especially when you consider the fact that law enforcment officers are trained to consider there own lives before considering anyone elses.

But they carry guns and are trained to draw them, with intention to use, well before they have even evaluated any threat.

You allow or create a dangerous situation and sometimes accidents will happen.

a reply to: chr0naut

I don't say this to too many people, normally I reserve it to members of MS-13 or ISIS, but I'll include you as well.

Please refrain from ever coming to America.

There are many other places to visit.

Go there, or somewhere.

Thank you.

a reply to: chr0naut

Tens of thousands of people die in cars each year. We can ban cars and get the number to zero....


Thousands of kids die in pools each year. We can ban pools and get the number to zero...


Better yet, let's just outlaw murder. That ought to do it....

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't say this to too many people, normally I reserve it to members of MS-13 or ISIS, but I'll include you as well.

Please refrain from ever coming to America.

There are many other places to visit.

Go there, or somewhere.

Thank you.

Yes. There are far better and more interesting places to visit.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: chr0naut

Tens of thousands of people die in cars each year. We can ban cars and get the number to zero....

Thousands of kids die in pools each year. We can ban pools and get the number to zero...

Better yet, let's just outlaw murder. That ought to do it....

Yes but those things also have uses which are benign. They aren't created and designed as weapons.

Yes but those things also have uses which are benign. They aren't created and designed as weapons.

a reply to: chr0naut

Wrong 100% wrong, Guns simply fire pieces of metal using a controlled explosions not unlike a nail gun used in construction.

Cars are 3000lbs of steel on wheels , controlled by pedals and steering by humans not unlike the trigger on a gun.

"Guns don't kill people , people kill people "

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: chr0naut

Tens of thousands of people die in cars each year. We can ban cars and get the number to zero....

Thousands of kids die in pools each year. We can ban pools and get the number to zero...

Better yet, let's just outlaw murder. That ought to do it....

Yes but those things also have uses which are benign. They aren't created and designed as weapons.

If anything that makes your argument worse. Cars kill more people than guns and killing isn't a product feature of a car.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Quantumgamer1776

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ChefFox

A quick look at the statistics of deaths by firearm can pretty much debunk everything you wrote.

America is the gun death capital of the world.

Can you please tell me the CDCs estimation of lives saved per year by the defensive use of firearms.

Put that number next to the estimated deaths by firearms per year, excluding suicides and accidental discharges.

Would you be willing to do that?

Well obviously defensive gun deaths are a subset of total gun deaths, so it will always be less, but no-one seems to be able to decide what the true figure is.

It’s not defensive gun deaths vs total gun deaths.
It’s lives SAVED using a firearm in defense vs lives taken by murder (total gun deaths minus suicides and accidental discharges leaves you with murders)

There's no argument if you just count the bodies with fatal bullet wounds, though. That's a no-brainer (headshot? nah, that's in bad taste). And why would I exclude suicides and accidental discharges? They are a BIG part of the gun statistics. Their inclusion also makes the numbers of defensive gun death even less significant in the 'America, gun death capital' thing. I would not like to be shot by someone claiming it was self defense. The false claim does not excuse the attempted killing, does it. And we all know defensive situations hardly ever occur, anyway, armed or otherwise.

what is this even about? Of course no one wants to be shot, for any reason. And of course a false claim of self defense wouldn’t excuse a killing, again who is making these arguments your refuting? Your fighting windmills.

Defensive situations happen all the time, and since you weren’t willing to post the stats, here they are:

Murders by gun per year (roughly): 15,000

Estimated lives saved by the defensive use of guns per year: 300,000 (lowest estimate)

Do you know how many women use a firearm to defend themselves from domestic violence?

And the other thing we all know is that the majority of those who claim that it was defensive, are lying. They just wanted to get their shots off. Just take a look at the numbers of police shootings of unarmed civilians (and their pets). These sorts of events look really bad for the "it was defensive" excusists. Even if defensive use were a thing, America is still gun death capital of the world.

I’d love to see stats that say a majority of defensive users are lying. My guess is il be waiting a long time because your making things up and just saying what you want to be true, I’ve posted stats and links to back them up.

When SHTF, every person who took money as a government employee (or a local cop) had better stay in the bunker for years and years and years.

originally posted by: Quantumgamer1776

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Quantumgamer1776

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ChefFox

Can you please tell me the CDCs estimation of lives saved per year by the defensive use of firearms.

Put that number next to the estimated deaths by firearms per year, excluding suicides and accidental discharges.

Would you be willing to do that?

Well obviously defensive gun deaths are a subset of total gun deaths, so it will always be less, but no-one seems to be able to decide what the true figure is.

It’s not defensive gun deaths vs total gun deaths.
It’s lives SAVED using a firearm in defense vs lives taken by murder (total gun deaths minus suicides and accidental discharges leaves you with murders)

If you kill someone using a gun defensively. It is a gun death. You can objectively tell that because of the bullet hole and the corpse.

It is hard to judge if anyone gets saved by guns, being, as it is, purely subjective.

Like saying 'I let out the bath water. People could have drowned in it. I saved hundreds if not thousands who may have lined up to immerse their heads and drown. I'm a hero'.

That is because you don't actually know that someone who didn't die, would have died if the person with the gun, was somewhere else. You are making a presumption that you have saved someone.

what is this even about? Of course no one wants to be shot, for any reason. And of course a false claim of self defense wouldn’t excuse a killing, again who is making these arguments your refuting? Your fighting windmills.

I gave the example of police shootings of the unarmed to supported my argument.

Defensive situations happen all the time, and since you weren’t willing to post the stats, here they are:

Murders by gun per year (roughly): 15,000

Estimated lives saved by the defensive use of guns per year: 300,000 (lowest estimate)

By what criteria? I mean there are 230 million people in America who didn't die. Perhaps they were all saved by the defensive use of guns?

Tell me of any of your specific defensive situations that you have diffused by having a gun in your daily life and experience. Of anyone in your family? Of someone ho is just an acquaintance? You see, in the real world, it hardly ever happens and that is the truth and is everyone's experience.

Personally, I have been shot at twice, neither time was the bullet anywhere near the mark and if I had stood around taking aim, I probably would have been hit. That's because, in most cases, guns cannot defend against guns. By the time you have drawn, un-safetied and aimed, the bad guy who already meant harm before you even knew it, has got off two or three shots.

That is the problem of gun proliferation. It favors the bad guys, even if sometime, a good guy might occasionally win, in the long view, the bad guys win.

You have seen too much TV where the bad guys couldn't hit the side of a barn and the good guys can shoot instantly, upside down, and backwards, without aiming or loading or taking off the safety. It is BS.

Do you know how many women use a firearm to defend themselves from domestic violence?

Do you know that in this day and age, women have resources so they can simply remove themselves from violent situations and call the police on the guy?

I’d love to see stats that say a majority of defensive users are lying. My guess is il be waiting a long time because your making things up and just saying what you want to be true, I’ve posted stats and links to back them up.

I was being sarcastic because, as you well know, there are stats to counter your stats.

I was also going through reasonable arguments as to why your idea that there are societies of 'gun heroes', who validate a society (which is actually drowning in gun deaths, the majority by far being suicides and which you don't want to count even though they are still gun deaths), is just plain bunk.

Funniest thing about guns is, there is only so much a gun can do on its own. Kinda like just setting off a bomb, there is a limit to just exactly how much damage can occur. Now if you had a whole bunch of people with guns, there is a whole lot more damage. There is strategy in directed force, placement and direction of these people. Just like military tactics.

Same considerations go for bombs too. They can be made, placed and detonated so that no one is hurt directly. The aftermath of 25 bombs causing the destruction of critical infrastructure, however...let’s just say a well armed militia of 150,000 could not cause the level of mayhem before defeat. And certainly would not last as long. 25 in the right places could take two to five years to fully restore. Using nothing more exotic than materials purchased at a supermarket and a hardware store.

Guns, bombs and any other items of death a just tools. It’s the architects of mayhem that are the thing to stop. You can hold a loaded gun safely all day long. Nothing happens until you pull the trigger.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
Funniest thing about guns is, there is only so much a gun can do on its own. Kinda like just setting off a bomb, there is a limit to just exactly how much damage can occur.

50 guys with .308 rifles go out and shoot down major power line infrastructure. It wouldn't be hard to do.

Shoot the first few guys that come out to do repairs.
Shoot the first few cops that come nosing around.

We're talking way out in the woods here. Is the government gonna drone 'em??

You think there aren't fifty guys with the same notion I just typed out?

a reply to: Ahabstar

Anarchists Cookbook.

Just sayin'

A semi-auto rifle is not an "Assault Rifle". Assault Rifle = Rifle with more than one firing modes. Your average gun owner cannot afford an Assault Rifle, they go for over $25,000 and require all kinds of paper and background checks by the ATF.

Less than 6% of murders are committed by semi-auto rifles (AR-15 = Semi Auto Rifle).

originally posted by: Deplorable
When SHTF, every person who took money as a government employee (or a local cop) had better stay in the bunker for years and years and years.

Look out, we have a bad ass.

a reply to: ChefFox

Its no secret, nor surprise that many American Democrats/Liberals adore the Euporean Union's Weapon ban that they imposed years ago.

I can't speak for the EU, but at least in Britain we still have guns, contrary to widespread propaganda and misinformation;

Many UK citizens think that ALL firearms are illegal, and therefore unavailable to the UK public - this is not true. You have the perfect right to own many types of firearms, but you must be able to have a good reason to do so.

-

UK Legal Firearms: Top to bottom

•Civilian Hunting Rifle
•Semi-Auto Shotgun
•AR15
•AKM
•Anti-Material/Sniper Rifle
•Long Barrelled Revolver (LBR)

Source

I know guys with veritable arsenals, but they don't brag about it, we have a different culture here in Europe.

originally posted by: Quantumgamer1776

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Quantumgamer1776
Can you please tell me the CDCs estimation of lives saved per year by the defensive use of firearms.

Pretty sure the CDC doesn't track such a statistic.

You should have searched google for 2 seconds. . .

www.google.com...

SO after reading the article - Augustus Masonicus was correct. CDC doesn't track such a statistic.
They publish surveys without attributing the "estimation of lives saved per year by the defensive use of firearms".

ganjoa

a reply to: chr0naut

On another note, I had a tasty chicken sandwich last night for dinner with macaroni and cheese spirals (request of the kiddos).

Completely irrelevant? yes, it is, similar to your response.