The Universe Creating Itself From Nothing

a reply to: Nothin

To be honest i dont really understand the way you try to argument.

But the only way to understand the unknown is by reasoning the facks we have gathered…….

We can not observe or study the unknown, but we can reaon it by what we know by mathematical and scienfick facts…..

a reply to: spy66

Perhaps that's because am not trying to argue ?
Am not trying to make a point.
Am trying to get folks to reconsider their own points, beliefs, opinions, etc...

Like your statements:

But the only way to understand the unknown is by reasoning the facks we have gathered…….

We can not observe or study the unknown, but we can reaon it by what we know by mathematical and scienfick facts…..

Do you think you are stating universal, absolute Truths ?
Or are those statements opinion/belief/temporary ideas/observations/thoughts/concepts, something else, etc... ?

Here is a quote, just for fun:
“Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic.” ? Frank Herbert, Dune.

a reply to: Nothin

Do you think you are stating universal, absolute Truths ?

I think i am. There are a few Things to look at. The first one is what is a "absolute constant". What "Properties" must it have..?

For something to be infinite and take up all Space there is.... It must be a "absolute" constant. No two Properties can take up all Space there is, so there can only be one Source. There can not be two Three or a billion Things....that occupy the same Space at the same time. And no two Properties can be a absolute constant……..

When it comes to time. A absolute void would have a absolute constant timeline. That means there are absolute no changes. To have knowledge of this void we have to apply the Math and the Science that we know. As soon as we start to add Properties to the Equation... we are no longer talking about the infinite… the absolute constant. Because then we are arguing a Space that have other Properties that we can observe….. We can observe something because it can be observed and measured. We can see it because it does not take up all Space there is. If something takes up all Space there is,..... we can not observe it and we can not measure it. It is just there…… It is basically common sence to know this.


These are the basics between: finite and the infinite….

Finites need to exist within a void of space to expand… within a void of Space that existed before it...……. Because finite needs a Space to exist in. That is also common sence and within Our understaning of Math and science.....


There is no finite that we know of that is a absolute constant and that takes up all Space there is. Non of you can give evidence of such finite.

a reply to: spy66

Hi Spy.
Am unfortunately not agreeable, with those so-called 'absolute Truths'.
Wasn't around when those forms of 'basic common sense' were handed-out.
Was maybe in the cosmic turlet, or something... LoL !

Why do you believe that 'nothingness' has qualities, such as 'infinite' ?

Why must there be any sort of data involved ?

What about no data ? No information ? Nothing ?

a reply to: spy66

"All that we know is but a DROP in the OCEAN of knowledge yet to learn"- Me

a reply to: Nothin

Why must there be any sort of data involved ?

What about no data ? No information ? Nothing ?

A void that is absolute and that takes up all Space there is, Is absolute neutral. In other Words: that void of Space is absolute empty. The void of Space just is. Such a void of Space is the only void of Space that can be infinite and take up all Space there is.

If a Space is absolute neutral, absolute empty how much information or data do you think you would be able to gather from it?

You would probably say no information can be gathered from such void. But you would be wrong. This void formed finite time. No other void could have done it. So we already know that much about its qualities.

a reply to: spy66

Well thanks for your reply.
Seems to me that your version of nothing, and nothingness, are actually things, no ?

What about nothingness, beyond all things ?

a reply to: Nothin

Seems to me that your version of nothing, and nothingness, are actually things, no ?

A single existing void,... Yes.

What about nothingness, beyond all things ?

We have two preceptions of how we percieve what nothing or nothingness is.

1. The physical existance of nothing/nothingness.

2. Our minds visual perception of what nothingness is.

They are two way different realities of what we actually have. Moste peopel mix mind and matter.

Our mind is actually set up in this case to make us question Our minds Visual perception of nothing. Your job is to figure out what nothing/nothingness is,.... and explain it..... It is why we have this topic in the first palce.

a reply to: spy66

Still things, no ?
Is not a void, a thing ?

1: Do not only physical things, have existence ?
2: Is a visual perception, not a thing ? Is mind, not a thing ?

How could one perceive nothingness ?

a reply to: Nothin

Still things, no ?

Is not a void, a thing ?

When we start to call the void a thing or Things we are starting to add Properties to the void. Do you understand..?

Initially it is just a void of absolute Space.

……………………………………….

But since the void formed finite (time), the void does have abilities. In one state the void is absolut neutral. It is a absolut constant. Then the void formed finite (time).

For a void that is absolute neutral, a absolute constant and absolute empty to do this, we have to add a property to it. Because at the moment the void formed finite (time) the void is no longer a absolut constant, or absolut neutral. And after it formed finite (time). It's Space in no longer absolut empty.

You can Call the void a thing or you can Call it intelligent. I would not Call the void a thing because that gives it less intelligence. This void is absolute so it is not just any kind of Space...… There exists non other like it. Our finite universe is nothing like this void of Space.

1: Do not only physical things, have existence ?

2: Is a visual perception, not a thing ? Is mind, not a thing ?

Only physical things have existance. You can not see the vind but you know it exists because you can feel it, and you can see it's effect on your surroundings.

What your mind percieves is a real thought and it exists at the moment you have the thought or vision. A thought is not a exsternal existance but a internal existance within once mind.

originally posted by: Quadrivium
a reply to: spy66

"All that we know is but a DROP in the OCEAN of knowledge yet to learn"- Me

The the once who don't put their mind to it will know less.

a reply to: spy66

When we start to call the void a thing or Things we are starting to add Properties to the void. Do you understand..?

Initially it is just a void of absolute Space.

Was thinking differently, as in: perhaps it is when we assign properties, we bring a 'thing' into thingness ?

In other words: by describing your void, and it's limits, are you not making it a thing ?
Perhaps even just by naming it ?

Same as naming 'absolute space' ?

Not all things ?

Only physical things have existance. You can not see the vind but you know it exists because you can feel it, and you can see it's effect on your surroundings.

We have not taken the time to define 'thingness'.
Do you figure the wind is a thing ?
Is an opinion, a thing ?
Is a belief, thought, concept, idea: a thing ?
Are 'you', a thing ?

a reply to: Nothin

In other words: by describing your void, and it's limits, are you not making it a thing ?

I have to use words to describe the void so that you can get a visual perception of what iam trying to describe in your mind. I am not calling the void a thing. If i called the void a thing you would not know what i was trying to describe.

I dont Call the absolute void a thing because a thing have bounderies, and it is often used to describe finite Objects. A void that is absolute and takes up all Space there is have no bounderies. And the void is not an Object With dimensions.

We have not taken the time to define 'thingness'.
Do you figure the wind is a thing ?

No i dont figure that wind is a thing. One could say that air is a valume of space made up of things... But whats the point..?

a reply to: spy66

Ok: well we could discuss what constitutes 'thingness' another time.

Am willing to continue listening to your descriptions of 'nothingness', but will also continue to challenge you on assigning it any kind of qualities, or properties. Fair enough ?

So how to describe your idea of 'nothingness', without any specifics or details ?
No limitations, no properties, no qualities, no data-points ?

a reply to: Nothin

So how to describe your idea of 'nothingness', without any specifics or details ?
No limitations, no properties, no qualities, no data-points ?

Before the void formed finite this void was absolute empty of finite. That is were the idea of the topic comes from: The Universe Creating Itself From Nothing

The way the heading is formulated by the OP is very non logical. The Univerese can not create it self from nothing. That emplies that the universe actually already exist. If the universe don't exist at all, how can it create it self if the state of existance was a state of absolute nothing…?


If you visualize in you mind that you are present before the existance of time. What do you think you would observe..?

A thing or Things...? Or absolutely nothing..?

a reply to: spy66
This/reality/life is actually nothing appearing as everything.
An ocean waving forms no solid lasting things......a wave never happens.... there is simply waving.

In the beginning there was nothing and the word made believe that there was a thing separate from everything.

Nothing is everything - emptiness is forming.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes that is actually so, because every second there is a New change a New existance of time. Nothing is actually the same Accept that one moment in time.

But i would argue that before the creation of time there was a constant nothing until the creation of time/Changes.

originally posted by: spy66

Before the void formed finite this void was absolute empty of finite. That is were the idea of the topic comes from: The Universe Creating Itself From Nothing

That's something with properties, doing something = thingness.

The way the heading is formulated by the OP is very non logical. The Univerese can not create it self from nothing. That emplies that the universe actually already exist.

And so you have viewed all of the different ideas in this thread, contemplated all possibilities from science, philosophy, literature, etc, and you have eliminated all other possibilities ?

If the universe don't exist at all, how can it create it self if the state of existance was a state of absolute nothing…?


If you visualize in you mind that you are present before the existance of time. What do you think you would observe..?

A thing or Things...? Or absolutely nothing..?

Ah: you are asking questions now ! Good !

If you dream that you are riding a motorcycle: how did you create that motorcycle ?
Did you assemble it bolt by bolt, paint it, inflate the tires, put gas in the tank ?
Or does it just appear, out of nowhere ?

Are you open to to questioning consensual-reality ?

From the realm of science: we have PHD Theoretical Physicists, and Nobel laureates: Niels Bohr, and Werner Heisenberg, whom heartily questioned consensual-reality;

Now listen to Niels Bohr, the pioneer of 20th century physics:
"An independent reality, in the ordinary physical sense, can neither be ascribed to the phenomena nor to the agencies of observation. "

Consider the words of Shankara, the famous Hindu philosopher: "All things -- from Brahma the creator down to a single blade of grass -- are. . .simply appearances and not real."

Compare with Werner Heisenberg, the inventor of quantum mechanics: "If one wants to give an accurate description of the elementary particle. . .the only thing which can be written down as description is a probability function. But then one sees that not even the quality of being. . .belongs to what is described".

Source: Quantum Mechanics, and reality.

( But remember: those are opinions, interpretations, etc... Not absolute truths. )

a reply to: Nothin

If you dream that you are riding a motorcycle: how did you create that motorcycle ?

The thing is With this question i have to be dreaming. When i dream i am Limited to perimiters that the dream presents… No-one can controll their dream.

By visualizing you have the abillity to set up Your mind so that it can learn in first person view, You can create conditions and test them.

You can create this cenario visually in Your mind and think: How did this dark void of Space create this thing ?








When you look at the two images you can start to eliminate processes beacuse you know a bit about the Universe. You know that this sphere was not always this big. A long long time ago it was much much smaller.

This tells you that this universe was much more compressed a lang long time ago then it is at present day.

So compression is a key Word here. And so is expansion. The dark void of Space lets the compressed universe expand.

But the big question is: How did this absolute infinite empty void of Space form this compressed mass..?

You can keep on visualizing that you are going back in time and observing this universe being more and more compressed.

This is baically what some Scientific communities have done as well, but not being very good at it since they never stopped the compression cykle… They state that the singularity started out as a infinitely small mass. For that to be true Our universe would never start to expand. It would still be compressing right now….. becomming smaller and smaller.

Odd question: How small is infinitely small? When is a mass infinitely small..? It never would be small enough to start to expand. You can't know the answers to this because you have been told that you don't have the mind to grasp it. Your ability to Challenge this have been taken away from you.

So how do we solve this problem..?

We have to start to look at the void of Space no one want to talk about. Because we have been told that this void of Space dosen't matter. it serves no purpose... they say. It has served its purpose....


Its like a God and Satan issue…..

originally posted by: spy66

You can create this cenario visually in Your mind and think: How did this dark void of Space create this thing ?

IMHO: you are still describing 'thingness', as 'nothingness' .
Not "this".
Not "dark".
Not "a void".
Not "of space".
Not any kind of ability to "create".
IMHO: you have to get rid of all of those things, if you want to go beyond 'thingness'.
Have tried to say this to you before, but it must be me whom is not good at getting you to think differently.

But the big question is: How did this absolute infinite empty void of Space form this compressed mass..?

Don't know, and am not really interested anymore in discussing 'thingness' into 'thingness', sorry.

Odd question: How small is infinitely small? When is a mass infinitely small..?

Still a 'thing'.


Everything from nothing. Get it ?

Not "this dark void of Space creating" this universe.
What ?
Does it smell like strawberries and vanilla ice-cream, is full of Love and intention also ?

Kom igjen mann !