Earth Needs Fewer People to Beat the Climate Crisis, Scientists Say

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Blue Shift
I already applied but Im waiting on Astros superiors to approve the transfer!

Hopefully you won't have to wait until 2044 for that TDY.

We should start by eliminating all corruption politicians

a reply to: jrod

ROFLMAO... this is comical coming from you, the same jrod whom just claims "you are all selfish, and we need to control people and population to combat climate change..." That's among the insults you have used in the forums throughout the years against anyone whom dare contradict your lies.

You are the one, among many others, whom don't give a crap about people. You don't care that there are literally millions of people whom depend on byproducts that come from petroleum, such as pacemakers and other medical equipment...

You are the one, among others, whom don't care that hospitals need either hydroelectric plants, or nuclear plants, or electric plants that run on oil or some other carbohydrates. Not to mention that when the lights go out for some reason hospitals also need oil, and gas to run their emergency generators. Solar and wind won't run a hospital 24/7.

People like you are the ones that don't care that people not being able to run their ACs in summers, or heaters during winter will mean the death of millions of people, including children, the elderly and sick people such as those with asthma.

People like you don't care that people in third world countries don't have your luxuries and require the use of wood, or some other carbohydrates to keep warm, or cook their food.

People like you don't care to the FACT that Earth has become greener with the increase atmospheric CO2, and people like you are the ones demanding for carbon/CO2 sequestration when that will be detrimental to ALL life on this planet including plant life.

None of you AGW religious lunatics even care that AOC, and rest of the elites demanding for zero carbon emissions keep on using their private planes to attend "Climate Change summits" just to blow hot air and lots of CO2 meanwhile demanding the rest of the world to stop using carbohydrates...

So stop projecting your fallacies on the rest of us.

a reply to: neoholographic

Earth may need fewer people, but not because the climate change issue.

If you did have any big climate change issue, you and everybody would know it every time they step outside. But even if you did, such a problem solves itself became the climate would be killing off people by the hundreds of thousands or millions daily.

In a week, the overpopulation would be solved.

They have been saying that climate change will kill everybody since the 1930s, and well. If they do that every year, sooner or latter its bound to be true in time. Because in time the climate does change, and has both on small scales every few thousands of years, and bigger scales every few millions of years.


What you do have here is a management issues. People problems. You know human resources problems.

And yes, that to is a problem that is more subtle. But none the less its still one that solves itself in time, in much the same manner.

Now are you really surprised that if there is a buck to make over a crisis, they would not be lining up in droves to make it. Schemers and dreamers, the two primary subsets of the human race. That and well. There used to be a term that was thrown around alot on this site years and years ago.

But its lost its touch and is in bad taste these days. But then again, it wasn't to much in good taste all those years ago. But You know the sheeplee...Bahhh!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: neoholographic

The solution is self-evident.

Get the feck off this rock.

Climate change or otherwise, keeping all our eggs in the one basket is dangerous.

Especially so when we can find or construct other baskets, for more of our eggs.

Then again those in power seem to like their eggs somewhat scrambled, makes them easier to digest you see.

Why is it that every time this subject comes out about a hiccup if even that. In fact not even that. As I don't even consider this global warming and crisis management even an issue at all.

But there is always somebody who says the solution is to move to another place, or planet. In which just getting there the problems would be magnified by 10 fold. And when you get there the issues you had and left earth would be magnified a thousand fold and then some.

Do you imagine that if some plastic, and politicos and there handlers defeat you, so you must flee to someplace were you would die in a second. Your issues here on planet dirt are not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what you would have if you were trying to colonize other planets.

And all that is. If you were even close to achieving such a feat. Which the human race is not. That's why there dying from getting to much sun, water, and oxygen, and people making noises with there face-holes. Its basically kind of like a fish drowning, so it wants to move to dry land were its more safer and easier.

If you cant even manage that what amounts to basically a hiccup in politics, you sure as funk wont even get anywhere near of getting off this planet. Not in a million years. If you had a million years that is.

It is highly illogical.

Well it took them forever to admit what us "deniers" knew all along. Just another ploy to implement population control. I find it amusing that these wackos care so much about the climate yet not enough to kill themselves. Notice how the people who write and support garbage like this are already alive? How convenient.

a reply to: dfnj2015

The ozone layer was repaired because chlorofluorocarbons were banned by public policy.

realclimatescience.com...

There never was a Northern Hemisphere Ozone Hole, and the one over Antarctica has not changed in size since the CFC ban was implemented.

About China, not quite the picture you paint.....

thediplomat.com...

Those mixed signals led to fears among some analysts that China’s “war on pollution” has stalled out, especially as the economy weakens amid the trade war with the United States.

a reply to: dfnj2015

You are the would with silly religious superstitions not based in scientific facts.

You forget that NASA comes under the military and as such why would you think they haven't their own agenda?

a reply to: lordcomac

better yet stop buying Chinese, pay a bit more for local manufacturing and let China reduce its population.

So, if we don't reverse climate change by reducing the population, what will happen? Millions of people will die? Isn't that a self-correcting problem?
Then the earth will return to a homeostasis?

To be clear, I don't buy the climategate agenda, it is a means to extort from the living while reducing population for other reasons. It's aim is incremental global control over all human life and reproduction. The actual polluters (chemicals, radiation, biological hazards) are the corporations and governments who are telling us we need to give them all our money and die. We could argue the bought-and-paid-for science all day long, the solution that's proposed to this "problem" is what I'm focusing on.

If we need to die off or else we'll die off, doesn't that seem a little pointless? Maybe instead we let an open market and crowd sourcing develop new tech and means to live on this planet with a higher standard of living instead of going into voluntary poverty and extinction. One man solved India's starvation issue, an issue that all this "population bomb" nonsense was built on.

One last point: 2.2 to 2.5 children per couple is what's required for ZERO population growth.

a reply to: JohnProctor

Killing all those innocent people will reverse climate change, think again.

We have past a point at which the natural CO being released by crystalline Methane, thawing permafrost and other sources is now far outstripping even the worst offending nation on this planet on an annual basis, in fact it is far outstripping the entire human greenhouse gas output on an annual basis never mind just a single nation.

Were WE are not helping is in allowing deforestation to continue, reef's a necessary part of the eco system of the ocean's to be turned into military installations and bleaching of other reef's as the water temperature rises (some can adapt and go deeper with the dead reef skeleton then becoming home to other reef species but one in particular is struggling and may not survive that is the Great Barrier reef of Australia.


Let's put it this way, every single human being could stop breathing, farting, using hair spray, cooking and it would still not stop global warming.

Also Global warming which has been exacerbated by human activity is NOT entirely down to human activity, before the end of the last glacial minimum - that is the period between the Glacial Maximum's we wrongly call ice ages when in fact in geological term's we are in one single huge ice age called the Quaternary Glaciation.

Go back sometime between 550 to about 750 million years ago and our entire planet was coming out of a period called the Snow Ball earth epoch a series of super ice ages that make the Quaternary at it's chilliest look like a beach resort holiday, the entire planet was FROZEN at least several time's and in what is called by geologists the great non conformity there is at least one to two miles of the entire earth's surface that is missing from the strata record because it was scoured away by these period's of super glaciation.

Think HOTH the planet from star wars the empire strikes back, that is pretty much how the earth looked back then it may have been volcanic activity that finally released enough CO2 to help warm the planet up OR it could have been the sun changing as it get's older or even both.

As the sun ages it eat's up it's hydrogen and turn's it into helium as I am sure you have heard before, this in turn get's turned into heavier and heavier element's as the sun ages and as these element's are produced through the atomic fusion that drives our stars energy output creating heat and light and radiation as waste products from this fusion process the new gases made up of heavier element's have to occupy more volume - all down to the electron valency's and being in plasmatic states, this in turn mean's that the sun has swollen since it first blew off the halo of it's birth nebulae and as it ages that swelling increases, it also mean's the sun get's hotter and produced more heat as it ages until it eventually become's a super giant in a period between 3.5 to 5.5 billion years then dies possible in a fiery supernova explosion BUT life on earth with no help from us will have to adapt to a warmer and warmer planet over the next 2 billion years after which it may not even be possible for life to survive as the Goldilocks zone around our star will have moved out ever further and our planet ever more toward it's inner boundary until it is no longer in that Goldilocks zone and liquid water can no longer exist on it's surface, some estimate that life as we know it may become untenable in as little as 500 to 750 million years in the future.

Human's are NOT solely to blame and in fact despite the fact that the death worshipers LOVE the idea of a human cull because lets face it they hate the human race - and probably everybody else as well - the planet is going to continue to get warmer anyway.

Were human's are doing harm AND they can also do GOOD is in the destruction and planting of trees.

We have an utter idiot that is driving his ship and everybody else onto rock's to prove his own belief's called Bolsonaro in Brazil, now the likes of lemming's like him, yes throw them over the cliff but don't blame all of humanity for a few greedy corporate bastards.


The way it usually work's during the Quaternary is that our ocean current's such as the portion we call the Gulf Stream a part of the oceanic conveyor a natural heat exchange mechanism of the ocean's carried warm waters north in the Atlantic, these in turn warm the northern hemisphere of much of the world and reduce the natural glaciation that would otherwise be in full affect in the region.
Warm air rising from the ocean's also control's precipitation in many region's and affects atmospheric air current's such as the Jet Stream but as the planet warm's up the ocean become less salty, it's viscosity and heat exchange ratio's change slightly but this is enough to affect entire region's and eventually the warming affect CEASES, then the glaciation begin's all over again.

During the last Glacial maximum sea level's were at least 400 feet lower, sea level will rise but by no where near as much as it already has since the end of the last ice age and when the cooling begin's sea level's will again drop, what is currently our home will become barren cold windswept ice bound tundra and people and animal's and plant's will move down to lower altitudes populating what is currently sea bed but will then be land, in time as the pay of is that the sea will become saltier the ocean current's self correct and begin to warm up the northern hemisphere again.

It's a cycle that has been going on for millions of years now and has not yet finished it's course.

50.000 years ago in what is today England African wilderbeast, giraffe, lion, hippo, African Rhino (not just the woolly variety's), cheetah and all manner of African Savannah species along with African Savannah flora were thriving, that's in England just 50.000 years ago then the glaciation came and the land changed, now it is starting to warm up but it is as yet no were near as warm as it was back then.

There have been great periods when there was no ice at the poles and life thrived, there have been periods when the ice Killed almost all life and with the probably exception of deep ocean chemosynthetic extremophile bacteria and perhaps simple lichen as far as we know NOTHING survived, it was only after the snow ball earth epoch that began about 2.2 billion years ago and lasted for about 1.5 billion years ended that we had the Cambrian Explosion a period when life positively exploded into new form's, it was long thought that multi-cellular complex life had not existed prior to this but some fossil evidence has turned up since to disprove that assertion meaning that there well could have been entire periods of warm earth during interglacial - glacial minimum's during the snow ball earth epoch when entire eco system's could have evolved only for them then be completely destroyed and all evidence of there passing lost in the encumbent period of glacial scouring that robbed the planet of at least 1 to 2 miles of stratification evidence - the great non conformity.

Humanity will survive, life changes, eco system's come and go all the time it's the way of the earth BUT it will get too hot for life to handle in just 500 to 750 to at most 2.5 billion years time unless smart being's alive then find a way to cool there planet down using orbital sun screen's for example.

My opinion is that we can overcome.

a reply to: neoholographic

Well you can say it's naive if you would like but the fact remains that we live on a planet that has a finite amount of resources and there will come a point when the population will outgrow the capacity of the planet to provide for them.

I would like to hear what your solution at such a time would be ? How would you convey your ideas without using the words population control ?

a reply to: HarryJoy

That point does not have to come for well over a hundred, perhaps even a thousand years.

Architecture, huge A frame skyscrapers think the Eiffel tower but made with modern technology and with a wider leg base and a hell of a lot larger, deck's on the way up with field's, forests, farm's, fish farm's, city's.
Subterranean.
Hydroponics.
Under Water and ON water.
Off world colonization the asteroid belt, the moon's of Saturn and Jupiter, the Moon and orbit.

And we have still not cultivated the Siberian tundra which is becoming viable as global warming promises to make that into the biggest wheat bowl in the world, the Pampas of Argentina, Vast tract's of Canada and then we have the whole ability to desalinate water and cultivate the deserts.


Cull the population and remove the impetus for humanity to develop, remove the need to invent.

The ONLY person that would want the human race off of the earth is an ALIEN that want's it for themselves and guess what we got here first so they can join the cue and we care about humanity because they are us, they are not getting our world ANY of them.

a reply to: LABTECH767

You mentioned deforestation. A fact I came across recently concerning the deforestation of the Amazon, a large part of it is due to herbicides being sprayed to destroy coc aine production. The War on Drugs is literally killing the Amazon. Just another example that governments and corporations can do real harm to the planet. It's these big organized groups that do the most damage- but this damage is due to radiation, chemicals, and biological engineering. (Recently discovered that the hole in the ozone layer nobody talks much about anymore is due to radiation, and now there a new hole over the Arctic due to Fukushima) these things are overlooked while we're being screamed at and shamed for breathing and living.

I do agree though that things will settle out. Every politically-motivated scientific falsehood eventually gets rejected. The world was supposed to end over 10 times since the grave climate warnings started in the 60s and 70s, maybe after another 20 years of the same chicken little, people will realize that all of this is bull# and start noticing the real crimes against nature, and who's perpetrating them. Maybe they'll have to be poor first, giving all their wealth to the state for long enough to get fed up and have another Renaissance.

People are looking for a reason for their existence. For many right now, that hole is being filled with righteous indignation and taking up causes. Being part of a group to save the planet even if it means killing ourselves-to save ourselves. All very dramatic sounding and Wrath of Khan. Sooner or later though, I think these people to will realize they've been conned.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

All you are doing is making false assumptions to straight up lies about me and what I think.

I am not sure why you target me.

You can not counter my arguments, you know when I use actual data, research, and facts to draw a conclusion so you resort to a character attack, an ad hominem.

Shame on you and your ad hominem attacks.

When you and the rest of the echo chamber continually refer to the universally accepted(by the actual scientific community) fact that anthropogenic global warming is real and will have global reaching consequences(NOT the apocalyptic end of the world)* as some sort of religion is telling us you are not trying to have a legitiment thought provoking and solution based discussion, it tells us you are here to muddy the conversation and degrade the discussion into a mud slinging fest.

a reply to: jrod

Barring the current earthly human species turning the planet into a Venusian hot house which would be a lot harder than some scare mongers want to suggest then it remain's a fact that global cooling is potentially a far more dangerous thing than global warming for the species as a whole.

It also remain's a fact that while the human race has added to the warming and through other factors triggered a mass extinction period on the surface of the planet with the die off of the bee population and other pollinator's being far more urgent and what's more importantly very dangerous to the food supply than even the most drastic projection's for global warming over the next century that the culprit is not simply HUMAN activity but Corporate activity with the likes of Monsanto painting themselves as savior's with there Patented chemical requiring GM seed while killing off heritage variety's of crop's around the world while they aggressively target and monopolize third world farmers while selling there Neonicketinoid crap that is also directly killing Bee's and other pollinators as well as leaving the soil Sterile forcing those same farmers to then have to rely upon Bayer/Monsanto etc for there equally potentially toxic fertilizers.

Meanwhile it's PEOPLE that are getting the blame while the very SCIENTISTS and corporate head's and hedge fund managers AND elite ultra rich dispose of the poor upper echelon's of society will be the one's able to ride out any such storm of human holocaust or deliberate engineered disease or famine that ensues because of there abuse of power which has put us into this potential predicament (partially global warming is also a natural phenomena and humanity has only accelerated it slightly perhaps even staved off another mini ice age - which we are still coming out of but which officially ended in 1850 as you know) while they ride out the destruction of there fellow man whom they have ripped off to gain there positions in society in there elite bunkers and DUMB's (Read underground city's into that).

ONCE AGAIN stop pointing the finger at humanity and look to were the blame lies, follow the money trail and it will bring you to the most inhumane of us all - it is they whom are responsible for this travesty which is being wrongly blamed on human population.

Oh and throw politician's into that batch as well they are as guilty as sin, take Salters Duck it was a solution that would have provided the UK with free, sustainable dependable energy and would have caused the potential end of the need for coal fired power stations in the UK in the 1970's as well as impacted our then state owned oil production but someone DELIBERATELY misplaced a decimal point in the cost review and it was then not pursued.

The list of Energy saving, ecologically friendly inventions goes on and on and on and the same story time and again, ignored and left on a shelf, bought up under patent and locked away, sometime's the inventors dying under mysterious circumstance there invention's then never being heard of again.

Follow the money trail it lead's to the crook's whom are protected by the most powerful institutions in the world, government's, corporation's, bank's and of course themselves the Elite, rather a tiny minority of the elite whom would slit the throats of the rest of the elite and one another if it served there purposes as they are basically if taken by HUMAN standards psychopath's but psychopaths in positions of great power and influence.

Not therefore the human population but a tiny minority of those ruling over the human population and exploiting it to there own advantage and yes they would willingly kill us all there are even some such as Karen Hudes (who may be slightly bonkers but then again is she) a former world bank member whom have claimed that they are actually a different subspecies to us, I have no problem with that if the meaning was that they are mentally different because they are in there lack of empathy but I am tentative at best to believe they are an actual different species but who know's, in her claim they are not actually a different species as they can still mate with human's but there offspring are infertile or have genetic defect's so more accurately a divergent subspecies (which given how many other human races have gone extinct I would be more willing to accept) and if so they are certainly will to cull our numbers before they are found out or we evolve past them (of has humanity already produced superior mind's to the best they have?) so culling the human race would therefore at least in some of there opinion's be in there interests now wouldn't it.


- Epsilon Eridani IV.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: lordcomac

better yet stop buying Chinese, pay a bit more for local manufacturing and let China reduce its population.

No, that's exactly the opposite of what to do. We need to buy MORE Chinese products so that the overall standard of living there rises to the point where people don't have to rely on having children to support them in their old age. Time after time it has been shown that the birth rates in highly industrial / technological societies drop very fast. So we need to get the Chinese up to speed to get them to stop having so many babies.

originally posted by: jrod
...
You can not counter my arguments, you know when I use actual data, research, and facts to draw a conclusion so you resort to a character attack, an ad hominem.
...

False, all your arguments can be summarized as "if you don't believe me, and my imaginary consensus of scientists, you are a climate denier, *insert here the plethora of insults you have used throughout the years.*

You have gone so far as contradicting yourself in the same post, first claiming you don't believe in AGW, and then a sentence later in the same post being a proponent of AGW. Your response and those of other REAL "science deniers" is to claim that "every scientist whom disagrees with your AGW religions must be getting paid by oil companies..."

You have no facts at all to provide. Not to mention that several other members and myself have posted the data and statements from untold thousands of scientists, the majority whom work in atmospheric science, and disagree with your claims, and these false claims about "a consensus."

You have never, in the whole time of being an ATS member, been even able to explain in your own words "the science" you and some others keep talking about but can never explain logically. You actually think that by writing "you are a science denier, and I know science" that that is enough of an explanation. More CO2 doesn't equal to atmospheric CO2 being the culprit when it is water vapor, and not CO2, which causes 97%+ of the greenhouse effect in the form of warming in the Troposphere.

Despite claims from other AGW religious lunatics in the forums, other members and myself have proven false the claims from you and other AGW proponents, including the claim that "the Sun's activity stopped increasing since the 1980s", or the false claims that "there is nothing else happening that can explain these changes Earth has been undergoing since around 1580 -1600s"

Earth is not the only planet undergoing climate change in the form of warming. Even Pluto and one of it's moons Charon, alongside other moons with an atmosphere have also been undergoing dramatic climate change in the form of warming.

Earth itself has also been undergoing other changes, such as the increase in speed of the molten iron river under Earth's crust in at least the northern hemisphere, which has trebled in speed since the year 2,000. Or the fact that Earth's magnetic field's is now weakening 10 times faster since 2014, or the increase in geothermal/volcanic activity, as well as the increase in earthquake activity.

Earth has been undergoing dramatic changes and none of them have anything to do with atmospheric CO2.

a reply to: neoholographic

I have a few comments on this subject, then I will not comment again.

I think this whole man-made climate disaster nonsense has run amok.

Earth is 4 1/2 billion years old.
Mankind is roughly 100,000 years old.
Man-made affect on climate is roughly 150 years old.

It is insanely arrogant for mankind to think that anything it did for a measly 150 years could affect a living organism 4 1/2 billion years old. It is even more arrogant to believe we can intentionally change it again. It is supremely arrogant to think that not only can we intentionally change it, we can direct it to a destination of our choosing.

Earth has been through far worse than anything our ant-like existence has ever devised. We are fly specks on the global timeline. We don't even have round trip tickets on this ride. We are one way, stop to stop riders, flicking candy wrappers out the windows. We need to get over ourselves and poor little greta needs to put on her big girl panties and deal with it.

In Earth's big picture we simply do not matter.