Student Loan Debt The Truth

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Why should colleges get hit with 50%?
Just curious

Because they've been feeding at the federal guarantee trough since forever, and they should be motivated to stop doing so.

My grandfather had an 8th grade education. My grandmother had a 3rd grade education. The same jobs they did they want you to have a minimum of 4 years of collage now. A degree is nothing more then a piece of paper saying you're not a complete idiot.

Adjusted for inflation my grandparents made the equivalent of what my cousin does now with a masters in computer science. Companies use to train from within and invest in their workers.

I know people that didn't graduate high school making $30 an hour. I knew a guy with a only a high school diploma that became the CEO of a multi million dollar company.

It's the younger generation in their 20's that got screwed. This idea that you need collage to make it in this world is a scam.

a reply to: wantsome

This idea that you need collage to make it in this world is a scam.

Actually friend in most fields in today's society there are some job fields where you need and it is a requirement for someone to have a educational degree or diploma.

A high school diploma means nothing for some. That is why some youth today go to college because of that mindset

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: wantsome

This idea that you need collage to make it in this world is a scam.

Actually friend in most fields in today's society there are some job fields where you need and it is a requirement for someone to have a educational degree or diploma.

A high school diploma means nothing for some. That is why some youth today go to college because of that mindset

Sure some aspect of the workforce need the skill set. But this idea that everyone needs a collage degree to make is bs. I'm talking about a trillion dollar industry selling lies to our youth so that the banks and school can profit. In most cases people would be better off going to a trade school.

a reply to: wantsome

In most cases people would be better off going to a trade school.

What trade would you suggest?

Around here masons can make a fine living but it pretty much classifies as back breaking work. Literally. But the union does provide some benefits, as long as you keep working.

I know a lot of carpenters. Each has real back problems.

Factory trades?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: wantsome

In most cases people would be better off going to a trade school.

What trade would you suggest?

Around here masons can make a fine living but it pretty much classifies as back breaking work. Literally. But the union does provide some benefits, as long as you keep working.

I know a lot of carpenters. Each has real back problems.

Factory trades?

We're a service economy there's trades everywhere. No one said work was easy. Electricians plumbers welders all kinds of stuff out there.

a reply to: wantsome

Electricians plumbers welders all kinds of stuff out there.

Right. But those with degrees probably do better when they find a job.

I would recommend that anyone who can do so, or has the motivation, should. I wouldn't recommend going into a crushing amount of debt in the process.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
The truth hurts.
Yes colleges are more expensive than ever, that is a completely separate issue, and yes one I do believe it needs review.

Let's talk about the actual debt itself present day college costs.
First problem and the real truth. Students are taking out way, way, way way too much and it's not just for tuition. They are living a lifestyle that
took their parents decades to achieve. If you actually look at tuition costs, yes they are expensive, but most of them are no more than the price of a car for four years.

Second problem and what is really getting people, students and parents do not understand debt (not just student debt) If you get a very large loan and do not make any payments, interest will accrue, and continue to accrue. If your payment is less than the interest accruing, guess what, that amount is not going down. Somehow people seriously think if they took a 20K student loan out, didn't pay a cent in ten years, that they should still owe 20K. It doesn't work that way with car loans, or mortgages, so why are student loans any different? Why is this unfair?

Third issue and probably the most ignored. Some of these students are either not graduating, or graduating with useless degrees. These people would have been better off just not going to college. Yes that is harsh, but it's the truth. They made a bad decision and now how to live with it.

www.cnbc.com...

Delinquency rates decrease with each level of educational attainment: More than 30% of student loan borrowers with less than an associate’s degree are behind on their payments, 25% of those with an associate’s degree are behind, 11% of those with a bachelor’s degree are behind and 5% of those with a graduate degree are behind.

If your local students are living the high life they must be very different from the students where I live.

Around here our problem is that students can't afford to leave home. Rather than going to the best college they are simply going to the closest one and are living with their parents while they study.

They stay at home and travel in each day. So they socialize less and don't pick up essential life skills like cooking or managing a budget that they would it they were living away.

Student debt and the cost of living and education is delaying adulthood. We have people in their 30s with the life skills of 15 year olds.

originally posted by: wantsome

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: wantsome

In most cases people would be better off going to a trade school.

What trade would you suggest?

Around here masons can make a fine living but it pretty much classifies as back breaking work. Literally. But the union does provide some benefits, as long as you keep working.

I know a lot of carpenters. Each has real back problems.

Factory trades?

We're a service economy there's trades everywhere. No one said work was easy. Electricians plumbers welders all kinds of stuff out there.

We live in an economy based on consumption. Fewer people than ever are using plumbers and electricians. They simply dispose of things rather than hiring people to repair them. And so many things are plug and play that we need fewer professionals to do it for us.

Even when people need a tradesman the often can't afford one due to the low wage economy.

People found here only hire a plumber when they are desperate. And electricians are mostly people who install wiring in New builds. Few people can afford renovations.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: wantsome

Electricians plumbers welders all kinds of stuff out there.

Right. But those with degrees probably do better when they find a job.

I would recommend that anyone who can do so, or has the motivation, should. I wouldn't recommend going into a crushing amount of debt in the process.

My buddies sister wasted $50,000 going to collage for interior design. Now she's working at Walmart and $50k in debt. I don't know who sold her on that one. She's not the only one though. I'm sure plenty of other kids have been sold the same lies. My cousin has a masters in computer science. He don't even use his skill set. He works in administration at the collage he graduated from. I'm not 100% sure what he's doing but he's make $250k a year. I haven't spoken to him in a couple years.

a reply to: wantsome

My buddies sister wasted $50,000 going to collage for interior design. Now she's working at Walmart and $50k in debt. I don't know who sold her on that one.

Yeah, I'm not sure either who sold her on working at Walmart. Unless it's purely transitional.

My cousin has a masters in computer science. He don't even use his skill set. He works in administration at the collage he graduated from. I'm not 100% sure what he's doing but he's make $250k a year.

Sounds like it paid off.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: wantsome

My buddies sister wasted $50,000 going to collage for interior design. Now she's working at Walmart and $50k in debt. I don't know who sold her on that one.

Yeah, I'm not sure either who sold her on working at Walmart. Unless it's purely transitional.

My cousin has a masters in computer science. He don't even use his skill set. He works in administration at the collage he graduated from. I'm not 100% sure what he's doing but he's make $250k a year.

Sounds like it paid off.

Yeah it paid off but he didn't pay it himself.

a reply to: wantsome

He don't even use his skill set. He works in administration at the collage he graduated from. I'm not 100% sure what he's doing but he's make $250k a year.

Collage is a form of art.

The thing is, getting a science degree requires a pretty wide skill set, including math and statistics. I wouldn't be surprised if he uses his computer science knowledge in admin. If he's making $250k, he's probably very good.

Some have no business entering higher education. Others do. I think everyone should be able to give it a shot. Not necessarily a private college. Not something that's going to put them in crushing debt for 15 years after they graduate. There are options. Some make poor choices in exercising them.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: wantsome

He don't even use his skill set. He works in administration at the collage he graduated from. I'm not 100% sure what he's doing but he's make $250k a year.

Collage is a form of art.

The thing is, getting a science degree requires a pretty wide skill set, including math and statistics. I wouldn't be surprised if he uses his computer science knowledge in admin. If he's making $250k, he's probably very good.

Some have no business entering higher education. Others do. I think everyone should be able to give it a shot. Not necessarily a private college. Not something that's going to put them in crushing debt for 15 years after they graduate. There are options. Some make poor choices in exercising them.

Not everybody has a shot at higher education. My other cousin lives in my basement. He'd love to go to collage and he's not a dummy. He can't afford a car to get there. Every penny he gets goes into survival. I have to drive him to work every morning. I keep telling him it's America hang in there something will come his way. He'll get a break eventually. I hope he does I've seen plenty of other people catch a break and make it.

Hello,

Full disclosure, I have not read the whole thread, which I normally make a practice of, but I have some feelings which I feel need to expressed first, which may or may not be useful to the discussion.

Your second problem is the one that irks me, and I will paraphrase, that students live a life which they expect, being continually supported by their parents. Okay, that is a fair criticism, if the parents are assuming or co-signing liability on that debt. However, to devote oneself to study for four years nominally, beyond high school, to acquire a degree DOES require a third of your day which might otherwise be spent earning a wage. So you're borrowing from your future the time to study instead of working, and deferring payment until such a time as earnings might be gleaned from such an investment is a fair arrangement for the lender. No other financial instrument works this way. It is a special case. In many cases, I imagine, interest-free, that is to say fully principle payments may be made during the period of the loan when payment is not required. In this particular instrument I imagine that going to school is your day job, then work is moonlighting. This lifestyle is completely sustainable.

What is not sustainable is the "college experience" which is basically the extension of high school plus partying. You'll find that those who refrain from this extravagance have no problem paying off their student debt, individually. Now, the wealthy can support their kids checking the box, while others can't, leading to social stratification. I think, more specifically, this is the issue you wish to rail against, perhaps in more specific terms.

Tuition isn't high, nor low. It is balanced as a free market should be, allowing individual choice.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Okay, but the end-state of that line of thinking results in arranged marriages and nepotism. This is not an attack, this is an intervention, I guess.

How does one reconcile the free spirit of children with the knowledge of the train wreck they're headed toward?

Funnily, this is exactly the progressive vs/ conservative fight we're now seeing in US Politics.

It's, like, a microcosm, man...

best!
z

originally posted by: Zelun
a reply to: Krakatoa

Okay, but the end-state of that line of thinking results in arranged marriages and nepotism. This is not an attack, this is an intervention, I guess.

How does one reconcile the free spirit of children with the knowledge of the train wreck they're headed toward?

Funnily, this is exactly the progressive vs/ conservative fight we're now seeing in US Politics.

It's, like, a microcosm, man...

best!
z

Way to leap into Hyperbole-land, man.

SO, now being a good parent, teaching your children, informing them of the consequences of their actions, yet still allowing them to make their own decisions, even if they are not in their best interest, is a bad and authoritarian thing.

Wow...just....wow.

No real words to express my .... there is no word.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
Around here our problem is that students can't afford to leave home. Rather than going to the best college they are simply going to the closest one and are living with their parents while they study.

Good, that is smart - assuming they are actually studying something worthwhile.

They stay at home and travel in each day. So they socialize less and don't pick up essential life skills like cooking or managing a budget that they would it they were living away.

You forgot the main life skill they learn while living away - phoning home to mamma and daddy for more money or a bigger available CC balance.

Student debt and the cost of living and education is delaying adulthood. We have people in their 30s with the life skills of 15 year olds.

College is the last place I would tell my children to look for life skills. They do that in the job market.

originally posted by: PhilbertDezineck

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Edumakated

If I am paying for it, I have a say in the matter... Hopefully, my kid will be able to do the math. I am 46 years old. I'd much rather have $1.5 million in the bank than my two degrees.

So you would condition your child's education on what you feel is best? That's my point about extortion. What you would want at 46 is irrelevant to what your child might want at 46 or what he/she wants for his/her future, and it's not up to you to withhold or condition that.

I have no problem with a kid that wants to study Lesbian Art Theory. However, the reality is they can study that in their free time for free. You don't need to go to college to do that...

Anyone can study anything for free. Books abound.

Hence the cost of college and working toward a degree.

If they really want to study Lesbian Art Theory, then maybe they should go to a much cheaper school. Harvard ain't necessary for a soft major like that and it most certainly ain't worth taking on a small mortgage.

But if that's what they want...Their life.

One question for you two. Is higher education for the potential of a better income or is it for personal exploration with self fulfillment the end goal?

It depends on the individual. Everyone is different.

a reply to: Zelun

How does one reconcile the free spirit of children with the knowledge of the train wreck they're headed toward?

Hopefully if you've done a decent job raising them you'll have a little luck.
Sometimes it doesn't work that way. I have one that heeded my advice and one that didn't. The one that didn't has experienced significant problems because of it, but that too was a learning experience. I've always said you can listen to mom, or you can listen to life and trust me, life will be much worse!