Time travel is impossible because time is not real

We see based on light. Whatever happened is in the light's imagery. If we can somehow create a light timeline or simply follow the light where we've been or where we are going we can then see it and once we see something an advanced A.I. could recreate it or take us to that particular place in our galaxy. That's time travel.

a reply to: Arbitrageur
Dude if building bridges is still a theory to modern day architects, considering they have been building bridges since before the roman empire. One would hope that it moved a wee bit past the theory of building a bridge by now, or else everybody driving on a bridge is in trouble.

But then again, bridges do collapse, I used to drive by the Tacoma narrows bridge almost every day, years ago. But that was on the new bridge as the old one collapsed in the 40s. But I suppose its just a matter of time, till something comes along one day, and the new one will likely collapse as well, or in time, natural wear and tear will take it course like with everything else.

So building bridges, something which has been done for thousands of years and constantly improved upon in real world situations for all that time. Is still somewhat just a theory, and they do collapse from time to time.

a reply to: MikhailBakunin

But wouldn't that just be the same as a documentary about any particular time and place. Or just use virtual reality to recreate it all from old data. I dont think every trivial thing a photon comes across is somehow stored in any light matrix hardrive somewhere in the universal data bank.

In the end, you could recreate it, and experience it, but its not going to be accurate. Its just going to be what the designers think or extrapolate about how it was back then, then make a virtual world of it for people to experience.

In this universe, there is no back or forward, there is only the eternal now.

And no mater were you go, there you are.

And eventually entropy wins over, and all that matter and energies is recreated in new forms and eventually form becomes function, and so on and so forth, till eventually, the process is repeated in new paradigms.

But all of that is forever eternally in the now. The past and the future, are just theories, projections of the human mind as it tries to grasp its existence in this predicament called life. And time is the glue which holds it all together in most peoples heads.

And even that for most its just a linear design. It projects forward, ie the future, based on the data it has and experienced in the past. The past, present, and future are all one thing in any linear timeline. In fact would be better said, in any linear consciousness, as time is a projections as well.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
So building bridges, something which has been done for thousands of years and constantly improved upon in real world situations for all that time. Is still somewhat just a theory, and they do collapse from time to time.

You think I don't know about the Tacoma Narrows bridge failure? That was a civil engineering project, but in the engineering program of the university I graduated from, it didn't matter if you were a civil engineer, mechanical engineer, electrical/computer engineer or any kind of engineer, all engineers learned about the Tacoma Narrows bridge. Part of the message was that when you deviate from established engineering principles there is some risk involved, and they knew when they built the bridge that it wasn't a standard design that used trusses like a typical bridge design. The initsial design would have cost 11 million dollars, but instead of going that route the problem was caused by "cost-cutting" and reducing the cost of the bridge to 8 million dollars, saving 3 million dollars, a false savings since the bridge failed:

November 7, 1940: Collapse of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge

Initial designs for the bridge by engineer Clark Eldridge were for a typical suspension bridge with 25-foot-high trusses under the road to stiffen the bridge and keep it from swaying too much. But the $11 million proposed design was costly. Engineer Leon Moisseiff — who consulted on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco — countered with a novel and aesthetically pleasing design that replaced the trusses with 8-foot-high plate girders, lowering the construction costs to $8 million but providing much less resistance to bending and twisting.

The fact that theories can be refined based on further observation and experience applies to not only physics but engineering as well. You don't see more bridges being built with the same failure mode as Tacoma Narrows, and now with computer models it's far easier to run simulations on our models which wasn't a capability we had back when that Tacoma Narrows bridge was built.

But ill-advised "cost-cutting" can still cause failures which are not failures of engineering or physics models or theories. The Deepwater Horizon oil spill was another disaster that resulted from poor choices in cost-cutting, not the failure of any models or theories.

I would add that in some third-world countries which have some corruption to pay off inspectors who overlook cost-cutting measures which don't meet codes, it's not necessarily safe to drive over all bridges, but again this isn't a failure of theory to make accurate predictions. Every time you drive over a bridge you're trusting the theory behind it, which is sound. The theory behind the original Tacoma Narrows bridge design was sound and it wouldn't have failed, but you see what you get for trying to cut $3 million dollars in costs from a sound design, right? So was that result a problem with theory? Or a problem with ill-advised cost-cutting? I would argue it's more of the latter.

a reply to: Arbitrageur
Oh, ya. Knew your were going to say that.

And that is exactly my point.

Now how much established engineering procedures are there on time travel or traveling at the speed of light?

Not to many right? So what basis does anybody have to really go on, besides the theories on it.

As for third world countries? Well I am sure they got there issues. But I am also quite sure that if I typed in, bridges failing in the US these past years or decade. Would likely get a hit or two, or more.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
Now how much established engineering procedures are there on time travel or traveling at the speed of light?

Not to many right?

Wrong. Time travel is well established by Hafele–Keating experiments and other experiments, and lots of experiments and natural processes verify time-travel effects, like Muons. Your ignorance of all these things doesn't mean they don't exist.

Here's a video on time-traveling muons which travel at near the speed of light.

Impossible Muons

"This video is about how terrestrial muons are part of our experimental proof of time dilation, length contraction, and special relativity in general."

Time could simply be the speed at which matter and energy interact? You go fast you age slower, perhaps perceive things faster too.

Space slows and speeds up those interactions differently in different situations. Speed/gravity etc...

Sorta like atmosphere slows down rockets.

I always believed that time does not exists, and so far the science did nothing to prove it otherwise. Time is an illusion, although a persistent one, created by our brain in order to be able to orient ourselves in this world.

As a unit of measurement I would say that time is the measurement of change, and yes, it is useful in constructing scientific theories and in trying to understand the universe around us. But in itself time does not exist, or we would be able to define it in a very precise way. Is it a force? A dimension? Is it a particle? A form of energy, a wave, a state of matter? A characteristic of space or matter? We don't know because it doesn't exists as such, only as a reference.

Like somebody said few pages before, there is no time, only the eternal now. Nothing ever happened elsewhere than in the now. So if there is no past as such, and no future how can we say time is linear or cyclical, time is slowing down or speeding up? Speeding up to where? And compared to what, to another "time"? It's absurd. It's just a concept, and we forgot we created it.

There is a very nice story that comes to mind reading this thread and I feel like sharing it with you.
A simple guy travels for the first time in his life in a plane. He also didn't speak English at all, so he didn't understood nothing about what happened in the plane. He just did what the rest of the people did. Now, being a storm outside the flight was quite bumpy, so every now and then the pilot asked the passengers to remain in their seats and fasten their seat belts. Then after the shaking was over people were free again. Our guy didn't understood what the pilot said but he saw people fastening their belts and did the same, then they opened them and he did the same. After a while he turned toward the person sitting next to him and said: "can somebody go to the pilot and tell him to stop doing that? is not pleasant at all." "Doing what?" asked the person. "Shaking the plane!" "What do you mean the pilot shaking the plane?" And he answered "Don't you see? every time he is speaking, the plane is starting to shake. When he is quiet nothing happens. So let's ask him to stop talking then we all can have a quiet flight!"

My feeling is that we do the same simplistic thinking when trying to figure out time, either because we miss pieces of the puzzle, or because the illusion is so deep that we cannot figure out a reality without time.
Once we all believed that earth is flat and if we walk far enough we will find the end of it. Some day we will solve the mystery of time also, but I don't think it is today.

a reply to: Arbitrageur
What you trying to say brah! That they finally found the time particle?

An interesting theory as any. But you do realize that math is a language, and like any language, it can be flipped on its head, inside out, and left to right, and made to so describe anything whoever so chooses wants to. You can make an equation that can prove to you anything you so choose to want to believe. And you can have charts and graphs that prove that its all correct.

And the video you posted proves nothing about time travel, does not even prove time exists in the context the video itself tries to say it exists. You know what is a heavier proof of time and time travel.

The fact that if I move my mouse courser over the video, it says its going to be 4 minutes and 33 seconds long. OMG, like total prof of time travel right there, it some how knows how long the video is going to be.

It can see into the future.

As for muons. Well we shall see. Lets just say that video, its far from undisputed concrete prof that time travel is anything but a projection and a measurement in a relative measurement to something else. In fact it uses Math and projections of said maths, to prove that its exactly that.

a reply to: Xeven

Could be, and obviously the farther up you go, the more everything is effected differently and not just the atmosphere or radiation and the earth mag field would likely be at play.

But obviously you have not read to much on the whole rockets in space thing, lets just say, rockets may be going at optimal speeds while in the atmosphere, and not in space.

No doubt somebody somewhere somewhere has a video complete with and charts and graphs to prove all that as well.

And others have there vids and charts to counter prof as well. In the end it just may be like seeing faces in the clouds, or subscribing to your favorite channel. Any proof about space and time is true, as long as you don't, or cant go there.

But that's for other threads I suppose.

a reply to: WhiteHat
Could be. I like the story.

But how did this guy who does not speak English or been or see a plane in his life, suddenly turn to the guy sitting next to him and ask him to tell the pilot to quit shaking the plane?

Time is a conundrum I ques, kind of like the guy in your story, something that just must be excepted, one most don't notice or have to think on much. Everybody is so used to it, that its like asking why water is wet. Its better to just enjoy the ride, and once in a while hold your sides and not burst out in laughter at the hilarity of it all.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

If you indeed watched the video, you didn't understand it, and if you didn't, well...can't help you.

No they're not saying they found the "time particle." They're saying, mathematically, we cannot explain the number of muons detected at earth's surface without taking time dilation into account, which, when we do, it makes perfect sense. Science isn't just about writing crazy math that you don't understand, it's about writing crazy math you don't understand and then forming predictions which you can then test experimentally. The particular physical experiments described confirms that the crazy math you don't understand accurately describes reality. Ergo, you don't understand reality.

*mic drop*

Looking forward to our time fight.

best!
z

a reply to: Zelun

Really? They cant figure that out? About detecting muons? Not even going to look into how and what technology they used to detect all those trillions of muons going off every fraction of a second. Lets just say, there extrapolating again, hence maths.

Have they tried charts and graphs yet? Maybe that will give a better answer to there time dilation problem.

Oh well, I ques those astronauts and clocks circling around the planet really do bend time and are in the future for a few minutes or hours. When they get back to earth, they would all be from the future bro, they will also be younger then you all.

Hey I got an idea, why not test that theory, send a clock up there for a thousand years, or a human for 50 years or so, both going around at some nifty speeds.

Then in a thousand years bring the clock back, to see how far into the future it has traveled, probably like almost 1000 more years since it was in space going around the planet the whole time right? Its a time traveling clock.

Almost seems an oxymoron...Almost, or maybe it is an oxymoron. A time traveling clock, which travels slower in time.

And the human, pretty sure Peta or whoever may cry animal cruelty, but no doubt that in 50 years when he or she gets back to earth, they can tell us about the wonders of the world of the past, to the future people he encounters when he gets back to the past that is the current earth.

Because you know. Time dilation.

So! You all don't think that maybe being in space or even low orbit may effect the tools you all use to keep track of time, even those spiffy atomic clocks. After all, even being in low orbit seems to effect the human body and everything at cellular levels, heck maybe even at an atomic level.

But that somehow, when or if you shoot them in space, or high on up, there traveling slower through time itself? As they go around a planet? And forget the going at light speed, the fastest any human ever went was not even a fraction of a fraction of that. And likely never will go beyond that any time soon in the foreseeable future.

So ya, theory.

OK now starting to see why bridges fall, or they cant solve all these issues. Its simple really, you got a bunch of idiots who learned to do some maths, and think thats the be all and end all of? Well of everything.

I suppose the answer to life, the universe and everything really is 42. Sorry brah! I cheated and took a peek ahead into this thing known as the future. Well I won this time fight. Really. It was a no contest from the beginning.

I just have to quote the entirety of this modern marvel for posterity:

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Zelun

Really? They cant figure that out? About detecting muons? Not even going to look into how and what technology they used to detect all those trillions of muons going off every fraction of a second. Lets just say, there extrapolating again, hence maths.

Have they tried charts and graphs yet? Maybe that will give a better answer to there time dilation problem.

Oh well, I ques those astronauts and clocks circling around the planet really do bend time and are in the future for a few minutes or hours. When they get back to earth, they would all be from the future bro, they will also be younger then you all.

Hey I got an idea, why not test that theory, send a clock up there for a thousand years, or a human for 50 years or so, both going around at some nifty speeds.

Then in a thousand years bring the clock back, to see how far into the future it has traveled, probably like almost 1000 more years since it was in space going around the planet the whole time right? Its a time traveling clock.

Almost seems an oxymoron...Almost, or maybe it is an oxymoron. A time traveling clock, which travels slower in time.

And the human, pretty sure Peta or whoever may cry animal cruelty, but no doubt that in 50 years when he or she gets back to earth, they can tell us about the wonders of the world of the past, to the future people he encounters when he gets back to the past that is the current earth.

Because you know. Time dilation.

So! You all don't think that maybe being in space or even low orbit may effect the tools you all use to keep track of time, even those spiffy atomic clocks. After all, even being in low orbit seems to effect the human body and everything at cellular levels, heck maybe even at an atomic level.

But that somehow, when or if you shoot them in space, or high on up, there traveling slower through time itself? As they go around a planet? And forget the going at light speed, the fastest any human ever went was not even a fraction of a fraction of that. And likely never will go beyond that any time soon in the foreseeable future.

So ya, theory.

OK now starting to see why bridges fall, or they cant solve all these issues. Its simple really, you got a bunch of idiots who learned to do some maths, and think thats the be all and end all of? Well of everything.

I suppose the answer to life, the universe and everything really is 42. Sorry brah! I cheated and took a peek ahead into this thing known as the future. Well I won this time fight. Really. It was a no contest from the beginning.

Okey dokey. Well, I look forward to reading your alternative theory on why GPS works, but not because of SR but because of something else, and also the data coming from the Gravity Probe B experiment which confirms Einsteins prediction of the 'frame dragging,' from GR. I know that sounds flippant, but that's actually how science works. If you have a better explanation we would all love to read it. Genuinely.

a reply to: Zelun
What is GPS now from the future as well.

The answer is 42. Even if I had a better explanation. Which I do, and if I cared to think on it. Which I don't, and so I don't.

Not because its a waste of time. Time is more or less an illusion albeit however persistent as Einstein said.

But because its a waste of energy.

So ya....42. All questions regarding time or whatever else. Refer back to that video I posted. And remember, any questions you have, will have, or can ever think of having, the answer to it all is always, and will always be..... 42.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Don't just make sad-ass Douglas Adams references. You are wrong that it is a waste of time. Science never ends. So if you don't care to think on it, why are you wasting your time posting in this thread?

Time is not an illusion. Your video is a crap comedy, albeit with the enlightened casting of Sam Rockwell as Zaphod Beeblebrox. Only good thing about that film. That and Bill Nighy as Slartibartfast.

a reply to: Zelun

Everything ends.

And saying time is an illusion is not saying time does not exist. As everybody knows, even illusions exist. If you look back to the first post I made on this thread, you will see, it was never me that said time does not exist, that was the OP in his infinite wizdom that said it.


All I was saying is that maybe it does not exist in the way you and others seem to think it exists.



I merely was trying to clear up some of the silly goofy things and dare I say, are kind of obvious, even to a 10 year old.


But don't get me wrong, time and the whole time travel thing has been of a great many amusement these past 20 something years. But I think it reached its expiration date right around were the third and last installment of back to the future film franchise came out.



Maybe the time has come, for science and all these great scientists need to start revising there theories and equations.



Just saying.






But you know the answer to what you said and are going to say or believe or even can possibly believe..... right?





Just keep scrolling down.









You time traveler you! Can you see the future? See whats coming next?













Its coming up.














Almost there.















42.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Illusions don’t cause you to age.

Study: Your Head Is Older Than Your Feet

www.theatlantic.com...

Einstein determined -- and it was proven -- long ago that clocks in space move slower than clocks on Earth because time moves at different rates depending on how close an object is to a gravitational field. In a new study published today in Science, researchers used atomic clocks accurate to within one second in 3.7 billion years to show that gravitational fields also affect time on a much smaller scale. Basically, your head ages faster than your feet -- unless you spend most of your time hanging upside down.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Would you like to calculate items like the speed of light without time. Looking forward to your proof of measuring and describing the speed of light by canceling out time from the equation.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Something being fluid doesn’t make it an illusion.

And death seems pretty real and permanent? And stretches into eternity.