The Drake Equation Fallacy

a reply to: carsforkids

Donate your car today.

a reply to: Barcs

Correct, your argument seems completely illogical to me, I fail to see your angle, I guess that’s why we both were given a brain each to make our own decisions based on our observation, experimentation, logic and reasoning, that to me is the original scientific method. You must be more intellectually developed than me to comprehend such grand concepts that I fail to grasp, despite my best efforts.

Can we now move on? I’m sure there’s so much more we could achieve rather than dwelling on such an obtuse tangent.

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: TzarChasm

An intelligent designer creating the cosmos, earth, and biological life in 7 days is way more likely than it all having come to be by random chance. Random chance cannot create even the most basic microbe, let alone perfect planetary orbit equilibrium or human beings.

Then show us this intelligent designer. Lets arrange a CNN interview and a book signing, maybe a blood test, a charity stream on Twitch to raise awareness and promote the brand. Cure the Coronavirus, build homes for the victims of Australia bushfires, volunteer at soup kitchens around the globe, blink all the world's nuclear weapons out of existence, just a whole week of fun activities to help people learn the truth and answer any questions about ethics and oversight in the intelligent design business. That is how you make an impression on the people and show them you are serious. What you did a thousand years ago doesnt matter if you suck at your job today.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Would you mind posting those laws for us and explaining how they prove the universe is intelligent?

You want me to upload all physical laws?

Take for example Water's evaporation at a rate consistent with its 'enthalpy of vaporization' - this ensures an adequate amount of atmospheric water to rain down and give life to the planet. Do you realize how awesome that is? The planet nourishes itself by consistent physical laws that lead to the vaporization and then condensation of water at very precise mathematically predictable patterns. The atmosphere is so precise in its implemented order that it allows water in its gaseous form, despite the fact that the troposphere often exhibits freezing temperatures.

These types of laws are everywhere, and they ensure the perfect equilibrium of earth and the perpetuation of life. It was undeniably implemented by an intelligent force. A great and awesome intelligible force that intended for life to exist.

originally posted by: midicon

It might just be that the 'laws' that appear to be such are just naturally occurring and intelligence has nothing to do with it.

Have you ever seen math homework do itself? We could appeal to the extremely unlikely circumstance that the intelligible laws that have persisted the cosmos since the beginning are just by accident, or we could conclude the much more likely scenario that these laws we implemented by something intelligent. The Constitution can't write itself.

a reply to: cooperton

Two words for you...

Magical thinking.

a reply to: cooperton

floods and droughts ?

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: cooperton

Two words for you...

Magical thinking.

No it's science

enthalpy of vaporization

What really would be magic if these laws were generated at random. All laws as we know them are implemented by something intelligent.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: cooperton

floods and droughts ?

Egyptians relied on the flood plain of the Nile. droughts lead to forest fires which reset an ecosystem. There are certain ecological niches that require floods or droughts to persist.

a reply to: cooperton

No it's science

No, it's the puddle analogy on steroids!

a reply to: cooperton

You want me to upload all physical laws?

Take for example Water's evaporation at a rate consistent with its 'enthalpy of vaporization' - this ensures an adequate amount of atmospheric water to rain down and give life to the planet. Do you realize how awesome that is? The planet nourishes itself by consistent physical laws that lead to the vaporization and then condensation of water at very precise mathematically predictable patterns. The atmosphere is so precise in its implemented order that it allows water in its gaseous form, despite the fact that the troposphere often exhibits freezing temperatures.

That is called physics. Being "awesome" is an emotional response and not a mathematical value.

These types of laws are everywhere, and they ensure the perfect equilibrium of earth and the perpetuation of life. It was undeniably implemented by an intelligent force. A great and awesome intelligible force that intended for life to exist.

1. Carboniferous Rainforest Collapse
When: 305 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 10 % of all species on the planet

2. The Lau Event
When: 424 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 30 % of all species on the planet

3. Cambrian-Ordovician Extinction Event
When: 488 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 40 % of all species on the planet

4. End-Ediacaran Extinction Event
When: 542 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 50 %+ of all species on the planet

5. Ordovician-Silurian Extinction
When: 443 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 60 % to 80% of all species on the planet

6. Triassic-Jurassic Extinction
When: 199-215 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 65 % to 80% of all species on the planet

7. Late Devonian Extinction
When: 375-360 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 70 to 75 % of all species on the planet

8. Cretaceous-Tertiary Extinction
When: 65 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 75% of all species on the planet

9. Permian-Triassic Extinction
When: 252 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 90-95 % of all species on the planet

interestingengineering.com...

And those were just the heavy hitters on a much longer list of extinction events that have claimed over 90% of ALL the life that has ever existed on this planet. But sure, life on earth is an inevitable part of the master plan and humans are the crown jewel in the collection.

Have you ever seen math homework do itself? We could appeal to the extremely unlikely circumstance that the intelligible laws that have persisted the cosmos since the beginning are just by accident, or we could conclude the much more likely scenario that these laws we implemented by something intelligent. The Constitution can't write itself.

Are you actually comparing the laws of physics to the US Constitution? A document of legislation is not a mathematical formula, do you not know the difference??

originally posted by: TzarChasm

1. Carboniferous Rainforest Collapse
When: 305 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 10 % of all species on the planet

2. The Lau Event
When: 424 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 30 % of all species on the planet

3. Cambrian-Ordovician Extinction Event
When: 488 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 40 % of all species on the planet

4. End-Ediacaran Extinction Event
When: 542 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 50 %+ of all species on the planet

5. Ordovician-Silurian Extinction
When: 443 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 60 % to 80% of all species on the planet

6. Triassic-Jurassic Extinction
When: 199-215 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 65 % to 80% of all species on the planet

7. Late Devonian Extinction
When: 375-360 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 70 to 75 % of all species on the planet

8. Cretaceous-Tertiary Extinction
When: 65 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 75% of all species on the planet

9. Permian-Triassic Extinction
When: 252 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 90-95 % of all species on the planet

interestingengineering.com...

I'm well aware of what your religion teaches. But it is not backed by empirical data. Look, your source is interestingengineering, and they cite 'listverse' as their source. Show the empirical data that proves any of those dates. Explain it in your own words and cite the observable data that reinforces your ideas. I'll save you time - there is none, it is total fantasy.

Are you actually comparing the laws of physics to the US Constitution? A document of legislation is not a mathematical formula, do you not know the difference??

You're being obtuse.

The Constitution is the pinnacle of US law. The laws of physics constitute the world as we know it. The words speak for their self. The laws of physics make up and form the material world - to 'make up and form' is the definition of constitute. The US constitution is the cornerstone for our laws.

Both physical law and US law was made by intelligence.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Without human experience, beauty wouldn't exist. As the most intelligent species on our planet, we are the pinnacle of biology in the known universe. We defined the word beauty as an articulate expression of our feelings. The mere fact we can conceptualise something so profound as God, should not be viewed so dismissively. Does a chimpanzee appreciate the view enough to express it in art? A mountain landscape full of trees has no eyes.

The most breathtaking example of life, without question, is human life.

Name another species with such mastery of art and the ability to express it so vividly. Our appreciation of the universe, used to manipulate our reality as an expression of our will is something of wonder and the very definition of beauty.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

1. Carboniferous Rainforest Collapse
When: 305 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 10 % of all species on the planet

2. The Lau Event
When: 424 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 30 % of all species on the planet

3. Cambrian-Ordovician Extinction Event
When: 488 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 40 % of all species on the planet

4. End-Ediacaran Extinction Event
When: 542 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 50 %+ of all species on the planet

5. Ordovician-Silurian Extinction
When: 443 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 60 % to 80% of all species on the planet

6. Triassic-Jurassic Extinction
When: 199-215 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 65 % to 80% of all species on the planet

7. Late Devonian Extinction
When: 375-360 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 70 to 75 % of all species on the planet

8. Cretaceous-Tertiary Extinction
When: 65 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 75% of all species on the planet

9. Permian-Triassic Extinction
When: 252 Million Years Ago
Death Toll Estimate: 90-95 % of all species on the planet

interestingengineering.com...

I'm well aware of what your religion teaches. But it is not backed by empirical data. Look, your source is interestingengineering, and they cite 'listverse' as their source. Show the empirical data that proves any of those dates. Explain it in your own words and cite the observable data that reinforces your ideas. I'll save you time - there is none, it is total fantasy.

Are you actually comparing the laws of physics to the US Constitution? A document of legislation is not a mathematical formula, do you not know the difference??

You're being obtuse.

The Constitution is the pinnacle of US law. The laws of physics constitute the world as we know it. The words speak for their self. The laws of physics make up and form the material world - to 'make up and form' is the definition of constitute. The US constitution is the cornerstone for our laws.

Both physical law and US law was made by intelligence.

I know you have access to Google and so does everyone else here, so feel free to do your own homework on the particulars of those extinction events. Comparing the moral engineering of legislature with the physical properties of atomic behavior is not applicable as the basic particles of matter don't process information like a human, it is involuntary cause and effect being compared with philosophy and sociology. Law means established fact in the context of each field. Laws change in congress all the time, the laws of physics are constant and universal. You haven't demonstrated any conscious properties at all.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

I know you have access to Google and so does everyone else here, so feel free to do your own homework on the particulars of those extinction events.

I did. Extensively. There is no conclusive evidence for any of those dates. I was once in your religion. I got out because I realized all the mutant-monkey stuff was totally bogus and unfounded in empirical science. It is a belief system without any basis in reality.

You haven't demonstrated any conscious properties at all.

The copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics insists that measurement conducted by a conscious being, or extension of that conscious being's awareness, is what gives physical systems definitive properties.

This is based on the empirical evidence of the double slit experiment, and the many follow up experiments that reinforced the same idea. Whereas your belief system on mutant monkeys being our ancestors is totally farcical and must ignore mounds of evidence that prove it is not based in reality. Physical systems react to the conscious observer - this proves the fundamental aspect of consciousness and us as individuals in the laws of the universe. You can ignore it if you want, but you are ignoring straight-forward science.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Barcs

Correct, your argument seems completely illogical to me, I fail to see your angle, I guess that’s why we both were given a brain each to make our own decisions based on our observation, experimentation, logic and reasoning, that to me is the original scientific method. You must be more intellectually developed than me to comprehend such grand concepts that I fail to grasp, despite my best efforts.

You are STILL in denial? You realize you just disproved yourself, right? The original scientific method is observation, experimentation and logic? Show me how that is applied in geocentrism. List the experiments here. I asked you this a long time ago and you avoided it like the plague. Truth is you are just making this up as you go along giving some half baked "method" off the top of your head rather than doing research.

a reply to: midicon

But But But... your homework has never done itself, therefor GOD!!!!

originally posted by: cooperton
The Constitution is the pinnacle of US law. The laws of physics constitute the world as we know it. The words speak for their self. The laws of physics make up and form the material world - to 'make up and form' is the definition of constitute. The US constitution is the cornerstone for our laws.

Both physical law and US law was made by intelligence.

Sorry but arguments don't get much stupider than this. I've pointed out time and time again that this is equivocation fallacy pretending that laws made by government to guide behavior are the equivalent of the laws of physics. So dishonest, no surprise at all. Intelligence is literally NEVER a factor in your assessment.

The copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics insists that measurement conducted by a conscious being, or extension of that conscious being's awareness, is what gives physical systems definitive properties.

Does the lying ever stop? The measurement has nothing to do with conscious beings, it has to do with the electron microscope affecting measurements of what it is reading. Attributing it to consciousness is blatantly false and presumptive and I've already demonstrated this to you. You are mentally ill, dude. Get help.

a reply to: cooperton

I did. Extensively. There is no conclusive evidence for any of those dates. I was once in your religion. I got out because I realized all the mutant-monkey stuff was totally bogus and unfounded in empirical science. It is a belief system without any basis in reality.

The Carboniferous rainforest collapse (CRC) was a minor extinction event that occurred around 305 million years ago in the Carboniferous period. It altered the vast coal forests that covered the equatorial region of Euramerica (Europe and America). This event may have fragmented the forests into isolated 'islands', which in turn caused dwarfism and, shortly after, extinction of many plant and animal species. Following the event, coal-forming tropical forests continued in large areas of the Earth, but their extent and composition were changed.

The Lau event was the last of three relatively minor mass extinctions (the Ireviken, Mulde, and Lau events) during the Silurian period. It had a major effect on the conodont fauna, but barely scathed the graptolites. It coincided with a global low point in sea level, is closely followed by an excursion in geochemical isotopes in the ensuing late Ludfordian faunal stage and a change in depositional regime

The Cambrian–Ordovician extinction event occurred approximately 488 million years ago (m.y.a.). This early Phanerozoic Eon extinction event eliminated many brachiopods and conodonts, and severely reduced the number of trilobite species. The Period in the Cambrian extinction in which most of the extinction occurred was the Caerfai Period. It was preceded by the less-documented (but probably more extensive) End-Botomian extinction event around 517 million years ago and the Dresbachian extinction event about 502 million years ago.

The Late Devonian extinction was one of five major extinction events in the history of life on Earth. A major extinction, the Kellwasser event, occurred at the boundary that marks the beginning of the last phase of the Devonian period, the Famennian faunal stage (the Frasnian–Famennian boundary), about 376–360 million years ago. Overall, 19% of all families and 50% of all genera became extinct. A second, distinct mass extinction, the Hangenberg event, closed the Devonian period.

The Permian–Triassic extinction event, also known as the P–Tr extinction, the P–T extinction, the End-Permian Extinction, and colloquially as the Great Dying, formed the boundary between the Permian and Triassic geologic periods, as well as between the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras, approximately 252 million years ago. It is the Earth's most severe known extinction event, with up to 96% of all marine species and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species becoming extinct. It was the largest known mass extinction of insects. Some 57% of all biological families and 83% of all genera became extinct. Because so much biodiversity was lost, the recovery of land-dwelling life took significantly longer than after any other extinction event, possibly up to 10 million years.

The copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics insists that measurement conducted by a conscious being, or extension of that conscious being's awareness, is what gives physical systems definitive properties.

This is based on the empirical evidence of the double slit experiment, and the many follow up experiments that reinforced the same idea. Whereas your belief system on mutant monkeys being our ancestors is totally farcical and must ignore mounds of evidence that prove it is not based in reality. Physical systems react to the conscious observer - this proves the fundamental aspect of consciousness and us as individuals in the laws of the universe. You can ignore it if you want, but you are ignoring straight-forward science.

The copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics does not override classic newtonian physics. The double slit experiment offers the same results whether recorded by a machine or a human being, conscious observation is not a factor. It is the act of measuring that interferes with data because every action has an equal and opposite reaction, causing the reaction of the material being measured. But that only matters when you are messing with photons, it's not causing magical stuff to happen like talking snakes or bringing the dead to life. I'm not ignoring straight forward science, you are misrepresenting science the same way the "god damned particle" was used to describe a divine energy field that controls matter and built reality as we know it.

In mainstream media the Higgs boson has often been called the "God particle", from a 1993 book on the topic, although the nickname is strongly disliked by many physicists, including Higgs himself, who regard it as sensationalism

It's called a straw man, except you like to throw a lab coat on it and make it say cute sci fi stuff.

a reply to: Barcs

It's really simple. I can't argue with you forever. It's like having an online wife who bitches all day long so consider this post a divorce of such, with a restraining order. We are over ok, i'm tired and bored of you.

Imagine being Ptolemy for a minute, imagine how he came to his conclusions. Was his work based on theology or an attempt to use physics and mathematics in order to predict celestial motion. His experimentation was calculating and creating a model of the cosmos using the tools and understanding available at the time.

He wasn't exactly throwing bones in a plate of blood, sacrificing some farm animals and praying to the stars for an answer to his questions.

His ideas were logical and reasonable, his method allowed accurate predictions, so much so that civilisations based their calendars on the work.

You're just too argumentative and head strong to have a constructive discussion with, this forum isn't supposed to be a competition or childish d!ck measuring contest. Control your ego and get on with your life.

Bye.

a reply to: Grenade

Ptolemy was still wrong, no one is saying he was bad person, just bad at his job.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

The copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics does not override classic newtonian physics.

You're wrong, the opposite is true: quantum physics replaced classical Newtonian physics.

The Carboniferous rainforest collapse (CRC) was a minor extinction event that occurred around 305 million years ago in the Carboniferous period. It altered the vast coal forests that covered the equatorial region of Euramerica (Europe and America). This event may have fragmented the forests into isolated 'islands', which in turn caused dwarfism and, shortly after, extinction of many plant and animal species. Following the event, coal-forming tropical forests continued in large areas of the Earth, but their extent and composition were changed.

Your whole religion is obsolete and not based in reality. Notice how you still can't explain in your own words the empirical evidence that supports anything you say? I wouldn't rag on you so much, but you claim to be based in logic, yet there is no proof for anything that you just copy and pasted. What is the conclusive observable evidence to support these wild claims? Or are you simply believing on blind faith? Do not just go and copy and paste random articles, I want to hear in your words what is the precise evidence for what you believe.