Why atheism and atheists are just wrong

a reply to: karl 12

But of course, but only they do it right.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Just curious, are you asking what exactly is the difference between the God of the Abrahamic religions versus the deity of other religions?

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: karl 12

But of course, but only they do it right.

Indeed

Here's some interesting quotes by Sagan -eespecially the one concerning Hinduism.

The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64 billion years long. Longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And there are much longer time scales still.
Carl Sagan


"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition".
Carl Sagan


"Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science? ... No other human institution comes close.
Carl Sagan.

a reply to: Dcopymope

I was trying to make a point that whereislogic's evidence is completely subjective and if there is nothing more concrete and beyond doubt, how is that proof of the Abrahamic God being the truth, vs any other God or Goddess / religion, throughout the history of religion and culture, since the "proof" for them all is subjective, and not concrete.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Dcopymope

I was trying to make a point that whereislogic's evidence is completely subjective and if there is nothing more concrete and beyond doubt, how is that proof of the Abrahamic God being the truth, vs any other God or Goddess / religion, throughout the history of religion and culture, since the "proof" for them all is subjective, and not concrete.

Well, what exactly to you would constitute as concrete proof for the God of the bible being the true one versus that of other religions?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
The only evidence that Christians have that their God is real, is completely subjective. I'm prepared to have my mind changed, if any of you can offer up something objective.

For the vast majority of Christians you are probably right, BUT for a small minority, nothing could possibly be any further from the truth. I was raised as a total heathen and instantly went from atheist to believer because of a single supernatural encounter with God. There was nothing subjective about it. Outside of a divine encounter, there is probably NOTHING that will change your mind, I've been there so I know EXACTLY where you're coming from. Here's what you need to be aware of though, if you ever decide you actually WANT your mind changed and you start seeking, get ready because you ARE going to go for a ride. You know what they say:

Please keep your hands and arms inside the vehicle and remain seated at all times. Hang on to your personal belongings, especially your hats and glasses...

Once you have had a couple of these encounters you very quickly begin to realize that experience trumps opinion every time. God knows how to get things done and if He sees that we are hard headed SOB's like I was, He is willing to up the game and throw a few curve balls our way. And BTW I'm not some freak of nature here, there are several right here on ATS that have had similar encounters just like mine. Here is just one example:

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
You are an open-minded sort of person, by the look of things! A rare thing in these days and times. I would advise you to pray a simple prayer, and see what happens. Test it out! Simply say: ''God, if you are real, would you reveal yourself to me in some way. I want to know the Truth...''

That's what I did ten years ago, and the very next day someone walked past me in the street, before stopping, turning back and pointing to me. She said: '"You've been praying. God answers prayer. Come with me...'' She was prompted by the still, small voice of calm, the voice of God's own Spirit, who lives with all believers, to be an intermediary between me and God, to prove His existence, so that I could answer the call of God, to give my life to Him.

I came to faith in Christ through her talking with me, and since that day God has shown me a thousand things that I would have no natural way of knowing. He does so in order to help us in real, practical and spiritual ways, and to help others to come to know Him. He desires for you to walk with Him, and to know His voice, and to bless your life in a million different ways.

Take it or leave it - but I hope you take it, in faith.

Ask, and you will receive. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened to you.

Don't bother with 'Droidus the spirit guide' (or others like him) - he has no answers for anyone; not even those who are devoted to him. God Himself will be your guide.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Sure, nothing may change his mind, but I'd still like to know what he considers smoking gun evidence of the Christian God.

a reply to: Dcopymope

Something indisputable.

Not, very powerful spiritual experiences or supernatural encounters, such as Murgatroid suggests. That is subjective. People from other religions or beliefs have those too. If those people claim to "know" just like Christians claim to "know", then who actually knows? See what I'm saying? I'm not saying people aren't having powerful spiritual experiences. I'm just saying that it's a stretch to use them as objective evidence for the existence of their God or truth of their reality.

a reply to: Murgatroid

It's subjective because it was your own personal experience that neither I or anyone else can look at, analyze, test, reproduce, etc. It's subjective because as I've said, people from other walks of life have the same types of experiences that relate to their religion or set of beliefs. Theirs are as powerful and meaningful to them as yours are to you.

What is an outside observer supposed to make of that?

Are they all true? Are they all false? What is the common denominator?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Dcopymope

Something indisputable.

Not, very powerful spiritual experiences or supernatural encounters, such as Murgatroid suggests. That is subjective. People from other religions or beliefs have those too. If those people claim to "know" just like Christians claim to "know", then who actually knows? See what I'm saying? I'm not saying people aren't having powerful spiritual experiences. I'm just saying that it's a stretch to use them as objective evidence for the existence of their God or truth of their reality.

Well, this may not be considered indisputable proof to you, but It is at least something you can reproduce for yourself. When someone asks me how I know my God is the one responsible for life, I interpret that to mean they are asking about comparisons between the different deities in religions, something that makes my God distinct from others. There are many differences, but the very nature of his being is what I consider a distinct characteristic of my God from other "gods". The God of the Bible is the only one you'll find whose very existence is described as separate from nature, being entirely self sufficient. All other deities are described by various forms of pantheism, where they are one with all living things. The only deity whose description comes close to that of Yahweh is the 'Tao', from one of the oldest religions on earth.

Like Yahweh, it is described as separate from creation, yet even the Tao is described as one with nature, the doctrine that "all is god and god is all", so its more like panentheism than traditional pantheism. Unlike Yahweh, the 'Tao' also has no vested interest in its creation, but is instead described as an all encompassing force not dissimilar from the way "the force" in Star Wars is described, which is nothing but eastern mysticism with a science fiction spin on it. The dark side vs the light side of the force is nothing but a sci-fi spin of 'yin and yang' from Taoism. The new age version of "god" is typically described in similar fashion as well. So according to virtually all other belief systems, I might as well worship the tree in my front yard since it is claimed to have a special relationship with its creator, being one and the same. Nothing of the kind is ever stated for Yahweh, for he has full sovereignty. Beyond this, it seems like the only evidence you'll accept is God making an appearance and proving his deeds before your very eyes.

a reply to: Dcopymope

Yahwehs characteristics are very similar if Hades an Zeus were the same god, even though their stories are different. Yahweh primarily based off Marduk, a war god which was originally part of a pantheon, the Elohim, or the infamous Annukai.

As for Taoism, it does share the same heaven an earth symbology, although without the conflicting personaifcations.

originally posted by: Specimen88
a reply to: Dcopymope

Yahwehs characteristics are very similar if Hades an Zeus were the same god, even though their stories are different. Yahweh primarily based off Marduk, a war god which was originally part of a pantheon, the Elohim, or the infamous Annukai.

As for Taoism, it does share the same heaven an earth symbology, although without the conflicting personaifcations.

Sure, you will find similarities with all of them, except when it comes to the most important details that truly separates the deity Christians worship versus all others. Zeus, Marduk and the laundry list of other "gods" are not only all created beings, but are more often than not very pantheistic, often associated with nature to such an extent that they might as well be one and the same, Horus being one of them. We know from the Biblical narrative that God is not a created being, nor is his essence or very existence described as being one with his creation. The true God is unique where it actually matters, and this is the point I'm making.

Sometimes I think atheism is simply a defense mechanism, and attacking is the best defense.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
Sometimes I think atheism is simply a defense mechanism, and attacking is the best defense.

And the only religions they attack on a consistent basis are the abrahamic ones, the ones whose deity has no meaningful similarities to that of others, these other deities that require nothing on the part of humanity with regards to ethics, or our sinful nature like the God of the Bible does. At best, these other so called "gods" just get angry if you ignore them. As the saying goes, if you stand out among the crowd, if you actually stand for something that is antithetical to the rest, you tend to become a target.

a reply to: Dcopymope

I appreciate your response and all, and I get it it, so much as I can. I hear what you're saying. Here is what I'd like to point out in response. Your God isn't any more or less unique than others. Your God didn't start out as a monotheistic deity. The roots of Christianity go back to the Israelites. Early on they were polytheistic. I'm not an expert, but I understand this to be one of the reasons for the many names of God in the Old Testament. There are close ties to the Canaanites. Long story short, there is nothing "special" about it. I mean it can't be summed up or explained in one or two paragraphs ofc, but what you have is just the evolution of cultural beliefs/power/control. Research the history, the cultures, etc. They are fascinating, interesting, and all that, but not so unique that it has to be fact.

Idk if you know this about me but, I used to be a Christian. I'm now an atheist so some people here will just say I could never have ever been a real Christian and blah blahlahblah. I've had one or two of those powerful spiritual experiences I called subjective. I wanted to keep believing for a long time. But the questions I had, the answers I found...

Anyway... stopping before I ramble more.




en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

A defense mechanism for what?

the scam is thus.

for the glo-balists, their religion is safe and off bounds.
so many of them claim to be athiests, but if you see how ethnocentrically racist they are, they are far from athiests.

BUT in the media, owned by those glo-balists, they are trying to dethrone any religion which expresses things against 'theirs.'

that is why, people curse and use the term 'jesus christ'
they have ingrained that in people, to mean a curse word.
think about that.

imagine if we made a curse word of 'mozes' or 'solomans ass' something like that.
but no, jesus christ is a curse word in 'their' media.

so the media proclaims how hip and cool atheism is.

look at some pos like howard stern. his show is funny, but everyone EXCEPT stern is great. because he runs that show with an iron gauntlet. its do as i say not as i do. he himself can make fun of himself, and he can make fun of anyone on the staff, but god forbid you make fun of him.

he brags about his athiesm.
yet, he is a pyscho xionist.

make up your mind dork! lol

so the movies, tv comedies, books, etc, they sh!t on catholism, christianity, mozlems, etc.
up until recently, most bad guys in movies were mozlems.
(in the 80s, the bad guys were russians. in the 90s, 2000s, mozlems. now, they are making the 'white man' a bad guy. and oh yeah, spooky nasis are the biggest villains in ALL human history, because the 'athiests' tell you they are)

so athiesm is where the 'cool kids' hang out in the media.
and they are trying to train people to not just abandon their faith, but they are teaching them to worship the 'one' glo-balist agenda, which is a religious agenda.

so they are telling you to be athiest, but follow their chosen type of religious ways.

People who don't follow God are payed to do so. People do anything for money. Everybody will follow the beast.

a reply to: dantanna

Wouldn't agnosticism be just as bad considering they domt nesscarily care or claim to be apart of any religion, and more or less rely on a subjective pov that there is a higher power, or that they say maybe to every belief.

Some eastern practices view Atheism as being fundamental due to them not being subconsciously burdened by petty differences or superstitions.




" What a Nimrod" sarcasm for claiming one a great idiot rather then a great, capable hunter.