Giuliani was paid $500K by indicted associate's

originally posted by: Extorris

Four months before the 500k payment.

So what again has this to do with Trump?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

You're defending, not analyzing. Even though we usually disagree ... You're better than that.

I laid out the facts, which appear to be rather run of the mill.
I suspect for effect, the alleged campaign violations of Gulliani's clients have been mixed in. I have disregarded that as I fail to see what they have to do with Gulliani being hired 2 years later.

What crime is Gulliani's firm being accused of?

After well over 2 years of the Russia nonsense, I would hope everyone would be more keen to just stick with the facts rather than speculating or hoping for something more.

originally posted by: UKTruth
Guilliani's firm was hired and paid $500k for legal advice.
The people who hired him allegedly committed a campaign violation 2 years earlier.

What else is there?

The two guys were broke and in debt. They got 500k payment from "Russian National -1" for payola to American Politicians, within days they paid Rudy, the Presidents Personal Attorney, 500k.

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris
from YOUR link

Fraud Guarantee, Lev Parnas’s Boca Raton, Fla.-based company, took on Giuliani Partners as a management and security consulting firm around August 2018. Giuliani was hired to consult with the company and provide legal advice.

was rudy the potus "personal attorney" then?
i would wager not
nice attempt to smear the potus by association tho

YES? yes, he was POTUS personal attorney then.

Time for you to move on to a new line of BS defense.

In April 2018, Giuliani became one of President Trump's personal lawyers.

Four months before the 500k payment.

en.wikipedia.org...

and here

Trump hires Giuliani,
www.washingtonpost.com... -8569-26fda6b404c7_story.html

www.abovetopsecret.com...
yeah I dug that up as well

Time for you to move on to a new line of BS defense.

you are a little behind
tho imo asking questions is in no way "a new line of bs defense"

so should trump fire him or wait until this is investigated to see if it is a crime?

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: UKTruth
Guilliani's firm was hired and paid $500k for legal advice.
The people who hired him allegedly committed a campaign violation 2 years earlier.

What else is there?

The two guys were broke and in debt. They got 500k payment from "Russian National -1" for payola to American Politicians, within days they paid Rudy, the Presidents Personal Attorney, 500k.

Do lawyers typically check the source of funds they receive for services?
Was Gulliani connected to the Russian who was giving money to the Ukrainians? Are you reopening the Russia debacle again?

Its a bit of a stretch. I read that one of the reasons that lead to the indictment for campaign finance fraud was that Fruman misspelt his name as "Furman" as evidence that he was trying to hide the source of the funds on his paperwork relating to a $500,000 donation to a super PAC being run by trump Jr. Odd conclusion, considering the other details on the paperwork was truthful about his identity.

Remember folks, an indictment is not proof. Its an accusation. Its also interesting that all of this (including the infamous phone call) is coming out just as Trump asks the Ukraine to reopen the investigation into Hunter Biden's gas company. The timing could just be a coincidence, I'm sure...

originally posted by: timequake
Its a bit of a stretch. I read that one of the reasons that lead to the indictment for campaign finance fraud was that Fruman misspelt his name as "Furman" as evidence that he was trying to hide the source of the funds on his paperwork relating to a $500,000 donation to a super PAC being run by trump Jr. Odd conclusion, considering the other details on the paperwork was truthful about his identity.

Remember folks, an indictment is not proof. Its an accusation. Its also interesting that all of this (including the infamous phone call) is coming out just as Trump asks the Ukraine to reopen the investigation into Hunter Biden's gas company. The timing could just be a coincidence, I'm sure...

Indeed... oh, and it's the Southern District of NY leading the charge.

a reply to: UKTruth

Right, I'm not critiquing the style of the argument you made per se. I'm suggesting that you might look at the "con" rather than the "pro." It's informative.

Or, I may just be babbling. Your mileage will vary. Best.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Extorris

Four months before the 500k payment.

So what again has this to do with Trump?

Multiple things, not least of which Trump green-lit Rudy as a shadow ambassador to shake-down Ukraine.

If you need more direct example of association..

A) These two guys opened up a company and named it "45 Energy" a nod to the 45th President.
B) They then, along with Rudy, tried to broker a deal with a Ukranian Energy Company (Naftogaz) involving gas Deals.
C) Board members of Naftogaz saw the proposal as a corrupt, shake-down and selling of connections to a US POTUS etc and said no.
D) Trump cancels Pence's trip to Ukraine and strangely sends his Energy Secretery in Pence's place. Rick had met with Rudy and crew before his trip.
E) Rick Perry arranges meeting and encourages execs at Naftogaz to fire the board members standing in the way of the deal.

Parnas and Fruman (Indicted Rudy associates) have reportedly teamed up with a Trump-supporting Florida oil magnate to start 45 Energy Group—a Houston-based energy company reportedly looking to do business in Ukraine—whose name is a transparent reference to the 45th president.
To maximize their profits, the three have reportedly been pushing for a change in leadership at Naftogaz, a state-owned Ukrainian energy company with which they were looking to swing a deal. (Their lawyer denies that their efforts were “a shakedown,” calling it “an attempt to do legitimate business that didn’t work out.”).

themoscowproject.org...

apnews.com...

In a private meeting with Zelenskiy, Perry pressed the Ukrainian president to fire members of the Naftogaz advisory board.

Perry’s push for Ukraine’s state-owned natural gas company Naftogaz to change its supervisory board was first reported by Politico.

A second meeting during the trip, at a Kyiv hotel, included Ukrainian officials and energy sector people. There, Perry made clear that the Trump administration wanted to see the entire Naftogaz supervisory board replaced, according to a person who attended both meetings.

AP sources: Trump allies pressed Ukraine over gas firm

a reply to: Extorris

Giuliani went to Ukraine to get evidence against our DNC that the new Administration there wanted to give him.

Not to "shake down" Ukraine, as you say, lol.

Just type Giuliani and Ukraine into Google Search and limit your results to those before June 2019.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Extorris

Four months before the 500k payment.

So what again has this to do with Trump?

And here as well:

(The two indicted men) They helped Giuliani with his representation of Trump:

In an October 3 letter sent to the House Intelligence Committee, John Dowd—who worked for Trump in 2017 and 2018 and recently agreed to represent Parnas and Fruman—claimed that Parnas and Fruman “assisted Mr. Giuliani in connection with his representation of President Trump.” That is, Dowd suggested that Parnas and Fruman, who are not lawyers, were effectively part of Trump’s legal team

According to the men themselves and their lawyer Dowd.


www.thedailybeast.com...

Guiliani and Trump are both the willing victims of con-men in my opinion.

Other than that, we'll see how things progress.

a reply to: Extorris
a lot of speculation
it may prove true, it may not

you still haven't answered the question I asked, should trump fire rudy?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Extorris
a lot of speculation

A lot of facts to.

it may prove true, it may not

you still haven't answered the question I asked, should trump fire rudy?

I have no idea why my opinion on that matter is relevant to the OP?

I guess the answer depends on what he employs Rudy for and whether or not he has been successful in those things?

From a pure appearances stand point Rudy has claimed he works for the two men indicted for laundering foreign donations in a political influence scheme and those men have claimed they worked for Rudy "in representation of Trump".

I'd think it wise for Trump to fire Rudy and try and distance himself, but hell, what does my opinion have to do with any of it or the facts?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Guiliani and Trump are both the willing victims of con-men in my opinion.

In order to be the victim of a con, you have to be in it for something, like Rudy's 500k and Trump getting Ukraine to manufacture an investigation and evidence on Biden's son. These guys were responsible for setting up meetings for Rudy with ex-Ukranian officials willing to at least play along.

What were the "con-men" getting out of it? Money from Russian Foreign national - 1 and a potential Energy Deal for two guys that know nothing about energy. Rick Perry at Trump and/or Giuliani's direction was working the energy deal angle by demanding the board members of the Ukraine Energy company that wouldn't play ball be fired.

For that matter it seemed like everyone was getting things they wanted until they got busted.
Not sure if that qualifies as a con?

What did "Russian Foreign National #1" get out of all of it?
Why did they want the US Ambassador to Ukraine (who got fired) fired? She testified to congress last week in closed door hearings.

Those are the open questions I have.

originally posted by: Extorris


According to the men themselves and their lawyer Dowd.

Boy that is stretching it rather far... We are talking 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon to figure out who is on Trump legal team.

The arrogant/evil Mainstream Media wants President Trump to "distance himself" from everyone they don't like. Gosh it's going to be fun watching them suffer when the Trump Admin goes on offense!

originally posted by: Extorris
YES? yes, he was POTUS personal attorney then.

Which means nothing.

So far, nothing illegal has been alleged... again, I admit it doesn't look all that good, but I'll wait and see...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: UKTruth

You're defending, not analyzing.

Sounds like analysis to me.

He asked a very pointed and meaningful question.

Were any laws broken (by Giuliani)?

a reply to: Extorris

I'd think it wise for Trump to fire Rudy and try and distance himself, but hell, what does my opinion have to do with any of it or the facts?

perhaps because you are the one attempting to smear someone because of association and no more?
association is not illegal, unless you are on parole