Should Christianity/Christian Churches refuse people who have committed the worst crimes????

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JustJohnny

Christianity looks different all over the world.

We have Passion of the Christ. They live it in the Philippines on the yearly basis.

But the core message is always the same: Jesus Christ is Salvation. He died for our sins that we may be reconciled to God and made acceptable in our imperfection. He was resurrected, conquering death.

Oh no, what is wrong with people
That’s insanity

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: Raggedyman

wow Raggedyman... your condescending, self righteous posts are getting a little hard to take. I think the OP has some valid questions and I feel his frustration for what he perceives as a get out of jail free card , that could potentially put other innocent victims at risk.

Please try and be a bit more understanding of a person who is looking for common sense and fairness in a book you profess to know better than anyone here.

Really Sheye

You know what’s at the heart of the post, condemnation, unforgiveness and fundamentalism, this atheist, non Christian, agnostic whatever is telling christians what to do, how to existentialism their faith.
I am sorry you think it’s about questions, it’s about self righteousness, arrogance and judgement

It’s not a get out of jail free card to be a christian , it’s a difficult lifestyle choice and many people work very hard, I have worked with people who suffer every day in a society who condemn them for their past lives and they work very hard at staying clean. In fact it’s attitudes like JJs that make many want to give up and rebel, go back into their old ways, hopelessness

Nothing I can or will say will change JJs heart, I know that, why? Because their is no common sense, there is no fairness and it’s not in that book. That book is clear, there is none.
JJ hasn’t chosen a Christian lifestyle, he is just trying to justify his own hate.
And that’s very easy to do, I know

Thanks for your condescending self righteousness as well, appreciate that Sheye

a reply to: Raggedyman
I think you’re being a little harsh in your judgement of JJ , and even if some of it were true, where is that forgiving spirit you speak so highly of ?

You remain in my prayers.

a reply to: JustJohnny

You are thinking from a human mindset.

Sin is when a person acts unlawfully, whether it is a desire we come to on our own and then act upon it, ie: adultery, or stealing someone's belongings, or murder, etc; it is also when evil temps us using our carnal (flesh) nature against what we know to be wrong/bad for us/not in keeping with God's nature.

Many serial murderers are crazy in the sense that something is missing in their brain chemistry/or have brain damage. OR they are filled with evil. Or, they have been so abused when a small child that they simply don't know that there can be a better life which means being loved, accepting that love, learning to find healthy ways to find healing and live a productive and healthy life. And so, having said that there is room for repentance from that person, as well as acceptance into God's kingdom. Someone who has a brain injury cannot help the way they think, and then behave. Someone who is so broken from the get-go doesn't even know what love is and many have been trained to be bad people.

It is not our right to judge or to decide who gets into heaven or not. You are implying that you know better than God if someone deserves to enter Heaven.

There is a spiritual battle going on about us constantly. Our very souls are being fought over. Everyone is on a different level of awareness and growth.

Hitler dabbled in the occult. If he was possessed and shut off wanting to know anything about God then if it is that cut and dried he won't make it to Heaven. However, if he were delivered of evil and truly repented I do believe he will be in Heaven. Maybe he won't win the crowns that many believers will win, but he will still be in Heaven.

I am not saying that whoever has done atrocities on earth should be released from prison. Not! They must reap the consequences of their actions. And this way the rest of society is kept safe from them. However, when it comes to Father God He will know one's heart and He will make the correct decision for He does not wish for ANYONE to perish.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: Raggedyman
I think you’re being a little harsh in your judgement of JJ , and even if some of it were true, where is that forgiving spirit you speak so highly of ?

You remain in my prayers.

What?
What do I have to forgive JJ for?
Done nothing to me or anyone I know of.
Maybe he is keeping secrets, that’s fine, probably healthy as well

I am not being harsh on JJ, just telling him that Christians forgive and try and bring people into community
As well as hold people accountable for their mistakes, not hide them away

Shey, can you not see the conflict between JJ and Edge, how the two are diametrically opposed
One protects pedophiles the other condemns them, you support both of them, me, I am in the middle.
What’s in your head, where is your balance?

I would be happy to see every pedophile strung up and flayed, but, it’s not love.
I am called to love those who fail, help the helpless
Then there is Edge who is protecting pedophiles by pretending they don’t exist in the cult organisation he is in and it protecting children, well it is not, That cult protects pedophiles

Wake up. You are playing both extremities and doing nothing but moan

a reply to: Raggedyman

What do I have to forgive JJ for? Done nothing to me or anyone I know of. Maybe he is keeping secrets, that’s fine, probably healthy as well

Then lay off the harsh judgement.. it’s there for everyone to see.🙄

One protects pedophiles the other condemns them, you support both of them, me, I am in the middle. What’s in your head, where is your balance?

Again you are putting words and thoughts into people’s heads. edge does NOT condone pedos or hide them away in his church and I am merely saying both these members have a right to their opinions without you taking a self righteous dump all over them. That is where my balance lays. Fairness in hearing all sides and a willingness to understand where someone is coming from.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: Raggedyman

What do I have to forgive JJ for? Done nothing to me or anyone I know of. Maybe he is keeping secrets, that’s fine, probably healthy as well

Then lay off the harsh judgement.. it’s there for everyone to see.🙄

One protects pedophiles the other condemns them, you support both of them, me, I am in the middle. What’s in your head, where is your balance?

Again you are putting words and thoughts into people’s heads. edge does NOT condone pedos or hide them away in his church and I am merely saying both these members have a right to their opinions without you taking a self righteous dump all over them. That is where my balance lays. Fairness in hearing all sides and a willingness to understand where someone is coming from.

I am not putting words into anyone’s mouth or judging anyone, condemned nobody
I have a right to call a liar a liar, to warn about evil and pedophiles in JW .org, I have a duty as well.
I can also judge people, I can’t condemn them.

And yes, Edge condones pedophiles in the organisation he is in, even by remaining ignorant, he is turning his back on the truth
Condoning crimes by not researching the truth

But how would you know, you admitted you know nothing and didn’t research anything so lay off, you are ignorant and admitted it.

Fairness in listening to lies and not researching the truth, that’s dumb.

I understand JJ, he wants justice, that’s a good thing, I agree with that, I am not the one to bring justice, I have been called to show mercy

Edge, he denies justice and denies the civil law while talking up Gods kingdom, he is not allowed to research, because he is told by his org he can’t research outside of JW .org doctrine, unlike you, just lazy
Go research the truth Sheye, prove me wrong
Shut me up

a reply to: Raggedyman

Go research the truth Sheye, prove me wrong Shut me up

I doubt you’ll ever shut up even if proven wrong.

I have these last parting biblical verses for you as far as ‘research’ goes.
Luke10:21
At that time, Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and declared, "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

a reply to: Sheye

Well Sheye
I am a christian, profess Jesus
So I guess , you are wrong and the “spiritual” is not hidden from me

JJ on the other hand, the spiritual is not in him, his earthly wisdom is clearly on show

Learn your bible

a reply to: Raggedyman

Learn your bible

ETA: What I was trying to get at with that quote from the bible is God’s laws of love and forgiveness are so simple a child can understand them better than adults at times. I have read the bible Raggedyman , numerous times as well as other Christian spiritual books. Still fall short of God’s glory everyday somehow.. but I don’t think reading more scripture will help with that.

a reply to: Sheye

Well maybe you should read JJs opening post again Sheye
He is preaching unforgiveness and condemnation to christians, in fact not just at us but within our community

He is also condemning sinners (and we all are) who I expect have seen their mistakes, repented and are trying to change their lives

Just consider, you look at your own sins, do you deserve to be in a nice community or do you have blood on your hands?
He is condemning you
Jesus is love, the church is love, we are called to love ourselves (probably the hardest thing) and love others, not condemn.
Bible verse
“There is no condemnation for those in Christ”, do you understand that?

JJ wants people condemned, that is not Christianity and that is what he is preaching

You have yet to comprehend Christianity, it’s full depths, it’s truth and mostly no context of love, none

a reply to: Raggedyman

You have yet to comprehend Christianity, it’s full depths, it’s truth and mostly no context of love, none

There you go again with your personal harsh judgements. Tell you what Raggedyman , please leave me out of your posts. I’ll let God be my judge.. He seems much more forgiving and kind, and loving. You on the other hand 🤷🏻‍♀️😔

JJ wants people condemned, that is not Christianity and that is what he is preaching

JJ wants justice, and not everyone who says they are saved by Christ, actually are. The bible tells us that. I think if your wife and small daughter were brutally raped, tortured, and murdered in front of your eyes, you may have a difficult time accepting that person in your church. That’s where JJ was coming from. What don’t you understand about that ?

a reply to: Sheye

Yes Sheye I judged you, I am allowed to, get over it.

And to make it even more bizarre, you moan about me judging you and then praise JJ for judging others, do you not think?

Yes JJ wants justice, but and you need to keep up, JJ doesn’t decide what Christians should and shouldn’t do

Funny Sheye, I want justice as well

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Sheye

Yes Sheye I judged you, I am allowed to, get over it.

And to make it even more bizarre, you moan about me judging you and then praise JJ for judging others, do you not think?

Yes JJ wants justice, but and you need to keep up, JJ doesn’t decide what Christians should and shouldn’t do

Funny Sheye, I want justice as well

Your putting words in my mouth again. I didn’t PRAISE JJ for judging, I said I understood why he felt the way he did... especially since he is non Christian.

You on the other hand profess to be such a great knowledgeable Christian, yet spew nothing but unloving judgement as you attempt to ‘teach’ others the errors of their ways.

See ya.. wouldn’t wanna be ya... Raggedyman.
See ? Judgement can go both ways. You remain in my prayers.

a reply to: Sheye

Sheye, you can't hug everyone, you are an enabler
You enable bad people when they make bad decisions and by doing that encourage evil

And you can't see it

I also understand JJ, very well, but he is preaching his Christianity at Christians, hate over love and you are enabling that
You are also enabling Edge in his ignorance re pedophiles in their kingdom hall

And I have not professed great knowledge, that's a lie, just more than you and that's not great knowledge, that's not a lot at all

You need to stop because you are starting to look very silly

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Sheye

Sheye, you can't hug everyone, you are an enabler
You enable bad people when they make bad decisions and by doing that encourage evil

And you can't see it

I also understand JJ, very well, but he is preaching his Christianity at Christians, hate over love and you are enabling that
You are also enabling Edge in his ignorance re pedophiles in their kingdom hall

And I have not professed great knowledge, that's a lie, just more than you and that's not great knowledge, that's not a lot at all

You need to stop because you are starting to look very silly

How am I enabling anyone ? I didn’t agree with JJ , if you go back and read my earliest posts. I merely tried to understand where he was coming from as a non Christian, as well as shield him from your atrocious judgements.

I’ll also let God be the judge of the JW’s , because I can assure you many are purer in their faith than those who judge them.

As far as looking silly to some.. fine with me. I’d rather look silly than look like a callous, judgemental self superior Christian. Your attitude does NOT seem Christian at all.. yet you profess to be so loving with sinners.

I’m not totally judging you for that because I fall into that trap at times myself. But you Raggedyman.. you have a very condescending mean attitude when judging, which makes it clear you don’t do it from love but from spite. Have fun with that.

ALL men are redeemable before their physical death no matter what their crime or sin. The are to be given the gospel but you don't have to fellowship with them until they are genuinely saved. Paul had that trouble at first when he was saved.

Another atheist butchering up the teachings of the bible because he was taught it on the Internet by an atheist youtube channel and thinks he knows everything.

a reply to: Raggedyman

The Books and Christian teachings have long been butchered. And will continue to be butchered.

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

Of course, but the originals probably make the rewrite look like a children’s book..



If the god of the Bible is committing genocide and making one family incest humanity into existence in the rewrite!!!! How bad must the originals be?!?!

No one is gonna make their God or messiah look worse in a rewrite... that would be crazy.. if your making changes your making him look better, not worse.


It is a well known practice in figuring out the truth concerning historical accounts..


When 2 accounts differ, they ask themselves “who is least likely to be lying??”

For An over the top example:

If there are 2 accounts from ancient scribes telling the same story of Jesus giving a little girl a kitten..

Say one says that Jesus was thrilled to give her the kitten as a gift..


The other says that Jesus slapped her in the face and said take This stupid cat!!


Well would a fundamentalist CHRISTIAN scribe change it from a gift to a slap, when the gift is far closer to the normal Jesus narrative??


Hell no...


Would a fundamentalist CHRISTIAN scribe decide that Jesus would not have slapped the girl?!?! That must be a mistake!” And change it??


Maybe...

So even though the slap is more far fetched it is actually more credible..




So people erase what later becomes to be viewed as horrific by their gods, they do not rewrite to make their gods look worse.. unless they found a new god.. but that changes everything

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Which I think is just horrific..

And seems to just be oh so convenient for TPTB that might want to rape and murder..

I’ve been on a true crime kick lately and there are absolutely people who do not deserve forgiveness... oodles.. .. Sadly I bet a big chunk of them , maybe just do to a lack of options, well honestly convert AND MEAN IT...


They are in jail forever, might as well mean it and since your in a cell , no way for you to even really be tempted..


I just see so much more logic in the “works>faith” of Judaism..


“How you feel on the inside” seems like the most irrelevant nonsense ever compared to the actual reality of your actions