Should Christianity/Christian Churches refuse people who have committed the worst crimes????

a reply to: JustJohnny

Let's for a moment forget about the idea of heaven. If moral and spiritual direction would help such a person change their ways for their remaining days on Earth, even if they have been already locked in to a future of drinking molten lava in an attempt to quench their thirst, wouldn't it be worthwhile?

Not to condone or excuse the behavior, but to attempt to keep it from happening more, or from encouraging the same behavior in subsequent generations?

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Gothmog

Apparently more than you if you think ignorance of Jesus is a loop hole to heaven..
I’m pretty much positive it specifically and unambiguously says “ignorance is not an excuse”..


All those people who never heard about Jesus are burning.

You should pay more attention to Disraeli's excellent theology threads on Friday. He recently wrote a series that would have addressed this bit specifically.

We all have the law written in our hearts, and we are all judged accordingly when we go before God.

The problem is that God's standard is perfection, and not one man is perfect which is where Christ and the idea of forgiveness comes in. No man is made perfect in his works. No man is righteous. And without that perfection, all our works are so much dust. The keys are faith and forgiveness through which works are brought forth.

The bit about judging not? It's about recognizing that only God is fit to judge who ultimately is worthy of heaven, who ultimately is worthy of forgiveness. We do not presume to condemn someone in that way because we do not know. You cannot presume to judge a person's inmost heart and soul. It does not mean, however, that we cannot be cautious in our associations.

But Christians regularly minister to prisoners in the jails for this reason. There are those who genuinely do repent who will seek forgiveness and a clean start, and those who are saved will show the works of faith and forgiveness in their lives. But ultimately at the end, only God will judge how genuine that repentance was. If they fully surrendered to Him, then, yes, they are forgiven. They died and were made new.

It is not impossible that your medicine man hears the call even if he has not heard the words of the Gospel. The law is written in every man's heart. God calls those whom He will.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: JustJohnny

I get the point you are trying to make JustJohnny. Like your name , you want to see justice for such atrocious crimes. I can’t blame you for that and I understand your fear that the forgiveness of Christ is being used or can be used as a loophole for letting off some very evil people in tptb.

I think this is what makes Christianity and the church so evil. Evil is always where you least expect it. Just saying magic words is not enough. Paying tithes to the church is not enough. Being a fan and fandom of Jesus is not enough. Idolizing the words of the Bible and quoting them is not enough.

In my mind the only path to absolution and salvation comes from getting forgiveness from the people you've sinned against. There's no easy way out.
We are responsible and have to clean up our own mess. God doesn't care if we crap in our own beds. It is up to each of us to clean up our own crap. People selling an easy way out are simply snake oil salesmen trying to make money off of other people's guilt and misery.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Gothmog

Apparently more than you if you think ignorance of Jesus is a loop hole to heaven..
I’m pretty much positive it specifically and unambiguously says “ignorance is not an excuse”..


All those people who never heard about Jesus are burning.

You should pay more attention to Disraeli's excellent theology threads on Friday. He recently wrote a series that would have addressed this bit specifically.

We all have the law written in our hearts, and we are all judged accordingly when we go before God.

The problem is that God's standard is perfection, and not one man is perfect which is where Christ and the idea of forgiveness comes in. No man is made perfect in his works. No man is righteous. And without that perfection, all our works are so much dust. The keys are faith and forgiveness through which works are brought forth.

The bit about judging not? It's about recognizing that only God is fit to judge who ultimately is worthy of heaven, who ultimately is worthy of forgiveness. We do not presume to condemn someone in that way because we do not know. You cannot presume to judge a person's inmost heart and soul. It does not mean, however, that we cannot be cautious in our associations.

I think our omnipotent God of unconditional love lets everyone through the gates of Heaven to experience eternally Heavenly bliss regardless of our Earthly sins or how we practiced our religion. Everyone is saved regardless of how we lived our lives if we choose to look into the face God with an open and humble heart.

As you say, nobody is perfect. Everyone has imperfections that cause them to make bad choices. I am pretty confident our omnipotent God knew exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about. And unless each of us has omnipotent powers to control our destiny we are inevitably force to make immoral choices because there are imperfections in everything around us.

Now some people hate this idea that everyone is saved by God regardless of our Earthly sins because people love the idea that God carries out revenge on people who deserve it. Many people just love the idea there is justice in the afterlife for people who deserve it. I don't think this is the case. If we want justice it is up to us to find it. I am pretty sure if we crap on ourselves God will allow us to do it in order to preserve our free-will. If someone else or we crap in our own beds it is up to us to clean it up. People who hate the idea God forgives everyone are just being petty and full of hate in their hearts.

a reply to: JustJohnny
Is 'should' just denial and conflict?

a reply to: JustJohnny

Your question has been answered several times. I'm not Christian I don't claim to understand everything but it's obvious you can't just repent without any action. Jesus didn't condemn sinners but he did instruct not to continue sinning although everyone is a sinner. Basically a serial killer can be forgiven but we all have to answer to God for our actions.

I mean this is Christianity 101 but for some reason Atheists think you can be horrible Monday-Saturday and repent on Sunday and everything is all good, doesn't work like that.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: JustJohnny

I get the point you are trying to make JustJohnny. Like your name , you want to see justice for such atrocious crimes. I can’t blame you for that and I understand your fear that the forgiveness of Christ is being used or can be used as a loophole for letting off some very evil people in tptb.

I think this is what makes Christianity and the church so evil. Evil is always where you least expect it. Just saying magic words is not enough. Paying tithes to the church is not enough. Being a fan and fandom of Jesus is not enough. Idolizing the words of the Bible and quoting them is not enough.

In my mind the only path to absolution and salvation comes from getting forgiveness from the people you've sinned against. There's no easy way out.
We are responsible and have to clean up our own mess. God doesn't care if we crap in our own beds. It is up to each of us to clean up our own crap. People selling an easy way out are simply snake oil salesmen trying to make money off of other people's guilt and misery.

Al valid but
What if those you hurt won’t forgive you?

The bible is clear, no value in tithes or magic words, the bible doesn’t offer that. The fault probably lies with Christians who don’t know the bible. Being a Christian isn’t just mouthing words or tithing, it’s a life changer and it’s hard work, it’s a tough road. Christians paint the wrong picture, love your enemies, forgive those who hurt you and your family. Truthfully it’s pretty crap

It’s not easy and it’s not snake oil.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Gothmog

Apparently more than you if you think ignorance of Jesus is a loop hole to heaven..
I’m pretty much positive it specifically and unambiguously says “ignorance is not an excuse”..


All those people who never heard about Jesus are burning.

You should pay more attention to Disraeli's excellent theology threads on Friday. He recently wrote a series that would have addressed this bit specifically.

We all have the law written in our hearts, and we are all judged accordingly when we go before God.

The problem is that God's standard is perfection, and not one man is perfect which is where Christ and the idea of forgiveness comes in. No man is made perfect in his works. No man is righteous. And without that perfection, all our works are so much dust. The keys are faith and forgiveness through which works are brought forth.

The bit about judging not? It's about recognizing that only God is fit to judge who ultimately is worthy of heaven, who ultimately is worthy of forgiveness. We do not presume to condemn someone in that way because we do not know. You cannot presume to judge a person's inmost heart and soul. It does not mean, however, that we cannot be cautious in our associations.

I think our omnipotent God of unconditional love lets everyone through the gates of Heaven to experience eternally Heavenly bliss regardless of our Earthly sins or how we practiced our religion. Everyone is saved regardless of how we lived our lives if we choose to look into the face God with an open and humble heart.

As you say, nobody is perfect. Everyone has imperfections that cause them to make bad choices. I am pretty confident our omnipotent God knew exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about. And unless each of us has omnipotent powers to control our destiny we are inevitably force to make immoral choices because there are imperfections in everything around us.

Now some people hate this idea that everyone is saved by God regardless of our Earthly sins because people love the idea that God carries out revenge on people who deserve it. Many people just love the idea there is justice in the afterlife for people who deserve it. I don't think this is the case. If we want justice it is up to us to find it. I am pretty sure if we crap on ourselves God will allow us to do it in order to preserve our free-will. If someone else or we crap in our own beds it is up to us to clean it up. People who hate the idea God forgives everyone are just being petty and full of hate in their hearts.

But, what if they don’t want to be with God
Will God force them?

I don’t have an answer, it’s a question

a reply to: JustJohnny

Jesus came for the sinners, not the righteous. Yeah I would think he would welcome them all if they were repentant.

originally posted by: cognizant420
a reply to: JustJohnny

Jesus came for the sinners, not the righteous. Yeah I would think he would welcome them all if they were repentant.

Precisely correct.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
“Does it really make sense that if Hitler/Child molester/(fill in blank monster) Honestly repents and gives his soul to Jesus, That he will or at least could get a one way ticket to eternal paradise, But some Indian medicine man who spent his whole life helping others will burning in hell forever...”

Most Christians I know don't believe anything like that.

The man already said it "let him who is without sin cast the first stone". What he didn't say was "but we'll only accept people with minor sins". There's a lot of stones flying around here and NOBODY, I mean NOBODY is without sin.

I thought it was christianities bread an butter with red wine, after all this time.

After all, the old testament so old fashioned that it tooth an claw, an eyes. Where the new comes in as a pen instead of a sword.

a reply to: JDmOKI

More or less.

It's not a get out sin free card.

You don't get to live how will and then say the magic words on Sunday. If it's true repentance, true forgiveness, you're actually saved in the Biblical sense, you'll do your best to walk the walk and not go back to living your old life the rest of the week.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Only because they don’t actually pay any attention to the theology...


Ask your any preacher, priest, etc if people who never hear about Jesus go to heaven or hell...


Then ask them if there is any sin That accepting Jesus with or without baptism Will not “fix”....


Most Christians Are in a social club is all..

a reply to: crayzeed

Not all sins are created equal...


Another factor I think is awfully convenient for the powers that be..

Pretending “sin is sin “ in the eyes of the lord..


So being a Hindu is equal or lesser than raping a child???



Of course not.... just talking points they have never spent the time to think about.

a reply to: TonyS

Which is disgusting......



Indian medicine man , who spent his whole life helping old ladies cross the creek???

Burns in hell... never accepted Jesus..


Child molestor who honestly repents and accepts Jesus?!?!


Eternal paradise....



It is garbage. .... the jewish system where how you lived your life trumped your inner feelings is way more efficient.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Originally posted by Raggedyman
Just being silly, no one walks into a church and says “ I am a murderer/rapist/child molester, just talking nonsense

If that’s the case then they’re clearly not repenting lol to their brothers and sisters…

- JC

a reply to: ketsuko

Sure....


Every civilization some how magically knew about Jesus......


Are you a Mormon lol???