The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by imitator

re22666
your analogy is still way off. and like others pointed out, you are now filling in your own fantasy for john's since his is whofully incomplete.

So do tell how my analogy is way off... And please explain who are these others? Maybe its you thats living in a fantasy world, again at this point I only see you addressing me like a drama queen. .

re22666
i already told you to just go ahead and pretend i was raised in a box and no nothing of english.

Why would I pretend that you was raised in a box, for all I know you was probably raised in a box.

Here is how you explained it, will it make it easier if i grew up in a box and have knowledge of nothing but words and how to type. If you had knowledge of nothing you wouldn't have words or know how to type. This would lead me to believe that you need to get out of the box and learn.

re22666
i know the words you speak, what they mean, how they relate to each other.

If you know the words that I speak, then you know that I gave you an answer. It seems that your stuck with this paradox.

it is quite clear from the last two posts that you have a tenuous grasp on the english language and modern concepts of reality. aside from the fact that that analogy is off because one is a hypothetical thought puzzle meant to help one come to a conclusion. in reality, it doesnt work because it can be checked, tested, or just wait until the result is the eventual anyway. john titor is a "real person who travelled through time for real." you cannot explain one with the other, mostly because it just doesnt actually explain anything. if you could understand me, i was giving you the opportunity to teach me. instead of assume that i am so smart that instead of argue, you tell me to go read things. i was telling you to go ahead and bestow your knowledge upon me. explain to me these things that i could never understand on my own. i just thought that maybe if you really knew what you were talking about, that would be no problem. i see that it is. yes i understand the words and how they relate to each other. that is why i then went on to say, that the words you use and put together, all flow nicely to make a nice sentence that says NOTHING. if you are going to respond to my quotes, use the whole concept of my statement and not the half that you feel you can beat down because it does not genuinely express my true sentiment alone. but hey, believe what you want. if you cannot back it up or explain it, i would think that might make you rethink it but i guess blind faith is cool too.

Originally posted by imitator

So do tell how my analogy is way off... And please explain who are these others? Maybe its you thats living in a fantasy world, again at this point I only see you addressing me like a drama queen. .

the cat is to be CONSIDERED both alive AND dead to observers outside the box because we know the reality and the potentiality. the point of it is that you can CONSIDER the cat both alive AND dead, UNTIL YOU OPEN THE BOX. "..you do not know until you open the box." it is purely philosophical about potentials. at what point do you consider the box to be opened on John Titor? in order to complete your analogy, the box must be opened in the end to find out which ONE of the states the cat is in. that means in reality, when we open John's box, we will find he is EITHER here OR there and not both because he can only be in both as long as we do NOT LOOK IN THE BOX.

im just hopping in here for a short moment

reply to post by re22666

if YOU actually understood string theory, you would not even have begun to defend john titor in the first place. his entire story flaunts the rules of string theory left and right.

really my friend perhaps you should study more on "string THEORY" and throw in some Quantum physics while your at it.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Also can somone explain how if time travel is possible where are the time travellors?

through titors explanation of traversing time; the LESS you get involved the better the chances of returning home(without haveing to jump through hurdles to due so).

lets suppose(for the sake of an argument) that titors claims are legit. if one was sent on a mission, similar to previous missions one has accomplished. how often(if at all) would one intervene with the populace? how many times would one allow themselves to be ostracized before one gave up? ect. ect. would one get involved knowing full well that it creates a more difficult procedure to get back?


personally i wouldnt waste my time trying to telling my story. the only reason i would get involved is if i decided not to return and then proceeded to shape that timeline into my vision(if possible).


im not saying all timetravellers thinks like myself, however would he think contrary to this line of thought?idk


my point is this> its a job, youll do what you need to do and get out. when you go to a fast food restaurant do you chat up the cashier? and if you do, is that conversation anything past pleasantries?
you dont want to know them, and they dont want to know you- its that simple. thats why we dont hear from timetravellers, becuase they have no intention of being heard.

titor however is a slightly different story. all of this "topic" is created becuase of a promise he made to his grandfather(supposedly). if he didnt make that promise to meet him in the year 2000. none of us would be haveing this conversation, yet timetravel would still be just as real(supposedly).


ill say this whether hes real or not it doesnt matter. if we had a chance to change our future it has came and went. were we successful or did we fail?
will our future be brighter than titors OR will it be far more dark?
that said, its clear that its no different than wild claims.


out of all of this the only thing that can be the same is the mechanics behind timetravel (assuming physics doesnt distort from one line to another). this is the only attachment i have to this thread and others like it. if titorites can prove titors legit than timetravel is legit; and all the ramifications of that as well.

[edit on 23/8/08 by Glyph_D]

Originally posted by Glyph_D
im just hopping in here for a short moment

reply to post by re22666

 

if YOU actually understood string theory, you would not even have begun to defend john titor in the first place. his entire story flaunts the rules of string theory left and right.

really

my friend perhaps you should study more on "string THEORY" and throw in some Quantum physics while your at it.

laugh all you want. how about you then fill me in on what i am so stupid as to be missing.
there is on catch though. you cannot both use john titors own words as examples, and string theory + quantum physics, and leave out the things he said that contradict what you are going to explain to me.
now go.

Some other thing. JT talked about the ``American Federal Empire`` being destroyed... it may exists... but not under the form we thought.

It's an ``urban`` term.

American Federal Empire: The current corrupted version of the U.S. government which is acting like an empire by policing the world, domestically destroying civil liberties and rewarding corrupt politicians and bureaucrats.
When the United States government is no longer of the people, by the people and for the people but a government of the corrupt, by the corrupt and for the corrupt, it's tyrannical transformation into the American Federal Empire has been completed.

Which the current government is and the next will be.

So it may be not the ``North American Union Empire`` government he was talking about... but the current state of the government. But eh, it could also be North America being unionized... like Obama and McCain intend it to be.

or um, it could mean the way that the federal banking system and the millitary industrial complex have merged to such great power.
or maybe it means um...that uh....
wow, there are just so many wonderful ways to interpret, change, manipulate, and distort this story to try to fit it to what we hope so baddly is true.

My name is Richard, and I'm on an Acer laptop right now and its Saturday August 24 2008 ?

It's 2008 and no civil war what next ....?

It's 2008 and no civil war what next ....?

re22666 reach down and grab your ankles and now look up...
YOU need to look at this from a different view, it will make the process much quicker. When you said, the hypothetical thought puzzle is meant to help one come to a conclusion.... That's exactly why I used it.....

Then you said, mostly because it (cat in the box) just doesnt actually explain anything.... And later your using the cat in the box example?

Now stop contradicting yourself...

At least your learning, now imagine there is more than one box and we're in them. If you look at it the right way it's simple, the deal is the cat is not forced into one state or other, its simultaneously duplicated and split into each possible state. Again, a mixture of Bohr and Everett.

You also said, if you are going to respond to my quotes, use the whole concept of my statement and not the half that you feel you can beat down because it does not genuinely express my true sentiment alone.

I have used parts your statements because it doesn't make sense when you contradict yourself over and over! As pointed out above.>

You said, i was giving you the opportunity to teach me.

A little abstract superposition is not hard to understand, do the physmatics yourself.

Anyway tonight coasttocoastam John Titor update.... should be interesting...

Tonight:
www.coasttocoastam.com...
First Hour: Oliver Williams and Larry Haber update the John Titor time traveler case.

reply to post by imitator


how about you teach me then. i have the same issue with Titor's story that RE22666 has but I have not made you anry yet. Perhaps you can answer the question for me. I see many posts, and many words, but not the answer. You also really seemed to miss the point by again replying to half of a sentence, so please do not edit my post. respond to mine in whole or not at all. I will not contradict myself. The cat is hypothetical. Johns box was already open. His point was that you cannot use a hypothetical about potentials to try and honestly answer a question about an occured event. Anyway, you missunderstood what you were replying to so here I am to ask nicely if you could answer the very same question for me, with an answer. I just simply do not understand how anyone that really knows about quantum physics and string theory above and beyong what they hear on coast to coast or read on ATS, can defend this story so vigorously while always managing to gloss over the one major contradiction between titor and what is currently known as true science.

I have been following this thread on and off ,and i have always wanted to post. Titor was an interesting read,and very believable , but A combination of relief and utter disappointment came over me upon realizing, it was fiction,but it wasn't the end of the world! which was great. Yet Titor made some(i can't remember all) very good predictions which made his story all the more compelling, one of which was Cern or the" Z machine" which brings me to question: How can a hoaxster make such predictions? Perhaps they are fiction 2? I think he may have been a scientist based on his knowledge in his writings. What do you think?_





[edit on 29-8-2008 by all2human]

reply to post by all2human



He definitely knew his stuff in my oppinion. I think that is why his tale endured so well. I have to ask, what EXACTLY did he say about CERN?

reply to post by Azrael75



www.abovetopsecret.com...
John Titor Was Right: CERN to begin producing Black Holes, page 1



[edit on 29-8-2008 by all2human]

reply to post by all2human


i do not see john titor being right any more than a good guesser. his predictions are as good as nostrodamus and could be applied to other things that might fit better had different events unfolded. unless anyone can post his exact prediction of the exact thing at the exact time, i do not think he predicted anything.
just my oppinion, until someone proves otherwise to me.

Azrael75
so please do not edit my post. respond to mine in whole or not at all.

I think it's best to break it down for clarity.

Azrael75
how about you teach me then. i have the same issue with Titor's story that RE22666 has but I have not made you anry yet. Perhaps you can answer the question for me. I see many posts, and many words, but not the answer. You also really seemed to miss the point by again replying to half of a sentence.

I'm not here to teach anyone anything. RE22666 has several issues, especially in contradicting himself.

Azrael75
The cat is hypothetical. Johns box was already open. His point was that you cannot use a hypothetical about potentials to try and honestly answer a question about an occured event.

If we are the event, it's a working hypothesis. For example: a Hurricane is being watched in full awareness of its uncertainties.

Azrael75
Anyway, you missunderstood what you were replying to so here I am to ask nicely if you could answer the very same question for me, with an answer. I just simply do not understand how anyone that really knows about quantum physics and string theory above and beyong what they hear on coast to coast or read on ATS, can defend this story so vigorously while always managing to gloss over the one major contradiction between titor and what is currently known as true

No, I understand very clearly... I've already given an answer, just live with that, or read it again if you don't understand it.
Why defend Titor? I could pick several reasons...

No one really knows about quantum physics and string theory above and "beyong." If they did, they would behold the Holy Grail... Maybe it's buried beneath the Franco-Swiss border?


John Titor, The President in 2009 was interested only in keeping his/her power base.

John McCain has picked Sarah Palin, if they win.... head for the hills .... several scenario's arrive at this point in using his/her.


Oh yeah! George Noory and Oliver Williams did a great job on the Titor subject, can't get enough of that.



[edit on 29-8-2008 by imitator]

reply to post by imitator


ok, look, you may think it worked with RE, but it will not with me. if you have no answers, please do not play this "i am so much smarter than you, that i do not have to belittle myself to tell you anything, but i will take the time to respond anyway, i just won't really say anything." you did not answer the question, at best you managed to confuse the issue further. you still do not see the contradiction in what you are trying to say. you do not understand shroedinger's cat, that much is obvious. you are right, noone does understand quantum physics and string theory, so.......
since the closest thing to an answer we have here is....
"go study quantum physics and string theory."

ok thanks for that. go study something that even the people that came up with it cannot fully reconcile or prove and then you will have your answer? i do not think so. in fact, if everything about string theory is correct and true, that further debunks titor's story but how would you know that? you only keep claiming to have knowledge but so far are just too good to show any of it. please stop responding to my questions and see if someone who actually knows something about this will answer. i do not need to waste any more of my time on empty words. i know you think you sound really totally super smart, but you sound like a regurgitation machine with no real concept of what you are saying.

Azrael75
ok, look, you may think it worked with RE, but it will not with me. if you have no answers, please do not play this "i am so much smarter than you, that i do not have to belittle myself to tell you anything, but i will take the time to respond anyway, i just won't really say anything." you did not answer the question,

What are you talking about, it will not work with you? It seems your just creating your own game. I'm not playing game or trying to be smarter lol. You guys crack me up.... Do you even know the original question? Did you even look up my answer?

Azrael75
at best you managed to confuse the issue further. you still do not see the contradiction in what you are trying to say. you do not understand shroedinger's cat, that much is obvious. you are right, noone does understand quantum physics and string theory, so.......
since the closest thing to an answer we have here is....
"go study quantum physics and string theory."

Oh no... you seem to be confused about the issue at hand and it's not shroedinger's cat. All I did was take it a bit further as an example to explain another question, branching it out to coherent worlds existing in all possible states. As Titor would say, Temporal space-time is made up of every possible quantum state.

I have the Titor bible right next to me, it has to be correct.

Azrael75
if everything about string theory is correct and true, that further debunks titor's story but how would you know that?

Ok, what is everything about string theory? Which superstring equation will you use that debunks Titor, don't worry there is millions of possible solutions to pick from and probably a million that can't debunk Titor. Go ahead and entertain me, pick your needle in the haystack.

Azrael75
you only keep claiming to have knowledge but so far are just too good to show any of it. please stop responding to my questions and see if someone who actually knows something about this will answer. i do not need to waste any more of my time on empty words. i know you think you sound really totally super smart, but you sound like a regurgitation machine with no real concept of what you are saying.

I don't claim to have knowledge of anything and I could care less if someone gives you the answer you seek, your question went astray. Do you even know the question not the answer?......I'm not trying to sound smart, but if I sound sound smart to you.... thats cool. lol

Before you start digging your own hole, read Titor's postings... by asking what Titor said about CERN and comparing him to Nostradamus makes you some what clueless. I could answer those questions for you, but you might think I'm being smart..

reply to post by imitator


look, you are doing nothing here. no answers, just babbling. and you prove your complete lack of comprehension here

Azrael75
if everything about string theory is correct and true, that further debunks titor's story but how would you know that?



Ok, what is everything about string theory? Which superstring equation will you use that debunks Titor, don't worry there is millions of possible solutions to pick from and probably a million that can't debunk Titor. Go ahead and entertain me, pick your needle in the haystack.

do you see the qualifying statement????????
that right there is the circular logic to which i earlier referred. you tell people to go learn more about string theory then they will understand why Titor's story is true. but string theory is just a theory and not a complete one either so it is nothing by which to measure anything else, let alone a fiction. your very rebuttal completely demonstrates how little you are paying attention to what you read and how eager you are to pretend to be intelligent. you keep babbling on and i refuse to address any more of it after reading this last response. i want someone who can read, understand, and then correctly respond without tripping over their own point or completely missing the one handed them only to bolster it unknowingly in their vain attempt at defense of what they do not know. thanks for nothing. your audition is through. if only you had the answer to the question instead of alot of empty words that you think will confuse someone of lesser intelligence. you completely underestimate people's grasp of the english language in the real world. go impress your little friends with these empty things. i want answers, thank you.

Azrael75
look, you are doing nothing here. no answers, just babbling. and you prove your complete lack of comprehension here

Wrong I have answered re22666 question, and in return I asked him a question in which he has avoided.

It seems your stuck on Shroedinger's cat and claiming I have contradiction with it, yet you can't clearly explain why. By you saying, "Johns box was already open" THAT is not the concept...

As well I have answered your question, and you over looked it. I'll answer one more time = John jumped into our box.... To elaborate a bit further, you seem to think I looked inside the box. That is not the case because I'm in the box and John is the observer. His observation on our world lines effect us, thus this conversation.

Here is the deal according to Titor words.... the reason we don’t know if Schrodinger’s cat is dead is because it might have had a time machine. if Schrodinger’s cat had a time machine, he might not be in the box at all.

John is the cat with the time machine...

Azrael75
you tell people to go learn more about string theory then they will understand why Titor's story is true.

I'm not telling anyone to learn string theory? Where did I say for you to learn it?

Azrael75
but string theory is just a theory and not a complete one either so it is nothing by which to measure anything else, let alone a fiction.

Make your mind up......

You said, "I will not contradict myself." So here we have you in a contradiction....You said, " if everything about string theory is correct and true, that further debunks titor's." How can it debunk titor if it has nothing by which to measure anything else? I'm awaiting for your needle in the haystack logic on this one. lol

Azrael75
your very rebuttal completely demonstrates how little you are paying attention to what you read and how eager you are to pretend to be intelligent. you keep babbling on and i refuse to address any more of it after reading this last response.

LOL... do I pretend pretty good? GOOD!!! then don't address me anymore, I would hate to point out another contradiction.

Maybe now we can get back on topic...

That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective)

Anyone have thoughts on this Titor quote....