Debunkers: You've lost credibility and will continue to lose

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: mirageman

So what exactly is your point?

Their point seems to be the most childish, unnecessary and pointless point of all: the creation of warring Tribes on the UFO/Aliens forum. Unless they're ten-years-old, there's no excuse (no offence to 10-year-olds).

Looking back, it's the very thing that led to ATS having severe problems some years ago and a subsequent admin backlash. Basically an embarrassment for the forum in general.

What? lol

originally posted by: Hunkadinka

originally posted by: Visiting ESB

Another stupid rant by someone not qualified to speak intelligently. Your own words betray you:

Since the UFO phenomenon began, debunkers have had a field day attempting and frequently disproving UFO photos, film, video and experiencer statements. They are sometimes correct: an event may very well have been hoaxed, and those events should be brought to light to clean up the field. ... The problem: career-debunkers routinely debunk EVERYTHING UFO/ET related. They don't even stop to consider that maybe this time, the evidence is there or the witness is credible enough to believe.[

So debunkers are sometimes correct in their debunking of questionable UFO photos, film, video and experiencer statements. They are brought to light. What is your problem? The debunkers were successful and the field was cleaned up, somewhat. Debunkers DO NOT routinely debunk everything. If they did this forum would not exist. If the evidence is there that's the end of the alleged and false claims. And what witnesses are you pointing out, UFO sightings or claims of alien abductions? Be clear. UFO "witnesses" don't have a problem, they saw something they couldn't identify as ours. Alleged alien abductions have never happened which is why there is no evidence, just tall tales or, bs.

You bitch about debunkers, offer proof that the debunkers have debunked the navy videos. I challenge you.


You don't have anything to bitch about.

Oh please! What I hate about this subject is people like you (the shrike) who cares more about fitting into the "intelligent group" than actually being interested in this subject!

You try and come across as some sort of highly intelligent skeptic, but we all know you are not!

You know little about the subject, and spend most of the time quoting other skeptics and debunkers go try and prove your point without actually researching yourself@

Yrs, people who blindly believe that ufos are ET is annoying, but people lime you are just as annoying. Both running on belief, and damaging this subject!

Ignorant and uninformed title. Any worthwhile "debunker" on this forum doesn't deny the existence of UFOs. Meaning objects that can't be identified. It's the huge leap of faith/belief to say these objects are piloted by alien beings, that's the issue. There's been 7+ decades and thousands of opportunities for providing real evidence of visiting aliens but it's never there. These are physical interactions that require physical evidence.

Hardcore believers make alien visitation to be commonplace and a non-issue. I think the importance of discovering intelligent alien life in our universe and the meaning escapes this group.

It's not about denial or this ridiculous fear or other nonsense. It's understanding the incredible impact and meaning it would have. Why should anyone leave this to stories or lightweight evidence? Just because you hope and want it to be true, doesn't make it so. 

a reply to: Visiting ESB

unless you believe EVERY single claim made - without question

then you to are a debunker

are you just pissed off because the rest of the world does not accept the claims which you personally find valid ?

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Hunkadinka

My opinion after 10+ years of looking into the ufo issue is that they are all human made military craft.

Your opinion is not based on the evidence which shows a multitude of shapes, sizes, and behavior. There is no way that humans are involved in their creation. How can you think the way you do? What do you know, that nobody else seems to know, that allows you to come up with your opinion? What do you base it on? I am really interested and look forward to your possible reply, unless you are pulling our string to get reactions!

originally posted by: Malisa

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Visiting ESB

Why would an alien ship need lights on the outside of it?

Humans put lights on their craft specifically so that those craft can be seen.

If the aliens want to be seen why do they not land?

Maybe they just like the attention, who knows?

Better ask them lol, asking a human why aliens would do this or that doesn't really get you anywhere

Maybe they just want people to see them, but they are not willing to talk to anyone or care to talk, they just want to be 'seen' for whatever reason we don't know

No earthling can answer the questions. To come up with guesses is just an exercise in futility. And who says we know how many types of alleged aliens there are? While we are only one race, human earthlings, but we have a variety: white, black, "yellow", orientals, hispanics, german, irish, etc.

originally posted by: Hunkadinka

originally posted by: Malisa

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Visiting ESB

Why would an alien ship need lights on the outside of it?

Humans put lights on their craft specifically so that those craft can be seen.

If the aliens want to be seen why do they not land?

Maybe they just like the attention, who knows?

Better ask them lol, asking a human why aliens would do this or that doesn't really get you anywhere

Maybe they just want people to see them, but they are not willing to talk to anyone or care to talk, they just want to be 'seen' for whatever reason we don't know

No earthling can answer the questions. To come up with guesses is just an exercise in futility. And who says we know how many types of alleged aliens there are? While we are only one race, human earthlings, but we have a variety: white, black, "yellow", orientals, hispanics, german, irish, etc.

However races are not species, color of skin doesn't mean different species

There could be zillions of different alien species, or just one, or two, who knows

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: Visiting ESB

Debunkers provide the line in the sand that the truth gets to jump over.
Debunking is a healthy endeavor.

Good to read your reply. To add, believer is a unhealthy endeavor. But what we have to keep in mind is that we are all born naturally skeptic and as we age we are victims of mental conditioning which results, mainly, in religious beliefs. But we are not all victims of mental conditioning. Using myself as an example, I was born to catholics. But, thankfully, while I was sent to Sunday school I could see that the church teachings were an unbelievable joke and I never fell for it. I grew up curious to find out the truth about everything and not accept without questioning. I grew up to be an educated atheist and a natural skeptic.

A believer could never be a debunker as proof is required to prove real, not fake. Necessitating proof has to go against believing.

a reply to: FireballStorm

I'm not a "believer" of any sorts LOL

I don't believe in all the cult like following of Aliens, like they are saviours of humanity or pure or more humble or anything like that, but i have seen people talk of them like that's true

I also don't believe that we are alone in the universe, it's ridiculous at this point to assume we are

And finally, i know some debunkers are correct and some are not, i sit on the fence watching, i'm not really into UFOs as some kind of religion or whatever, and i don't look up to "them" in anyway

I just decided to keep my mind focuses on my current stuff and just watch things happen, we may get some news or we may not, i won't be going all crazy over it

IF it happens in my lifetime (real disclosure with actual proof) great! If it doesn't well too bad, but i know my panties won't be twisted over anything like that... LMFAO!

originally posted by: Malisa

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: Visiting ESB

Debunkers provide the line in the sand that the truth gets to jump over.
Debunking is a healthy endeavor.

Debunkers sometimes put the line in whatever place they need it to be, it's not like they are perfect beings

I have read tons of posts here on this site where 'debunkers' just jump to the default conclusion that they are right based on something someone else said before, without even understanding the facts or why or how, and get so dense they end up being ridiculously ignorant in the end

I would not put my trust in 'debunkers' so much, it's not like someone went to debunk university and got a degree or something. Or have to be professional or legally honest about it

A lesson in logic, pay attention. You are not describing debunkers. I'm a debunker when the need calls for it, therefore you are not describing me. One does not have to go to a higher leaning institute to be a bona fide debunker. A debunker examines a claim if it sounds too outrageous to be true. An examination of the alleged claim will result in real or fake. The claim has to support rigorous investigation. If the claim is supported by irrefutable evidence, the debunker rests his/her case. If the claim is not supported by irrefutable evidence, bingo!

My degree is D.O.M. I use logic, common sense, reason. Believers have no such concepts.

originally posted by: charlyv

However that's now how it works most of the time.

a reply to: Malisa

What you say is certainly true, but those who are truly involved and know the past history as well as they can, can weed through the chaff and concentrate on the kernel issues.

Our mods do a very effective job of dealing with the idiots that resort to offensive tactics.

"Our mods do a very effective job of dealing with the idiots that resort to offensive tactics." Not to my satisfaction. Since this is an open public forum it attracts a lot of pests that don't contribute healthy dialog but concentrate on ad hominem attacks or are just plain pests. The member that told me to find another playground is an example of detestable behavior. At one time, eons ago, this forum allowed you to block such pests from replying to you. It would be great if that feature was activated.

originally posted by: Malisa

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Malisa

Even people saying in recent decades that there could be no water outside the earth

Got any examples of people saying that? In recent decades?

I have not seen that recently but i remember reading about it before. And we still see people claiming the earth is flat so it applies in general

But it used to happen and the way it works has not changed over time

I mean we have people today that use science (to build a rocket) just so they can disprove science (to prove the earth is flat)

LMFAO!

So you make a comment that Phage challenges you on and you backtrack.

Phage: I'm crying "shiiillllll!"

originally posted by: Malisa

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Malisa

I mean i know your job is to debunk things

Sure it is. Read my sig.

Do you like bunk?

Well that's a dummy question LMFAO!

10:

I like to be clear of mind, not just go crazy on something because i can't figure out otherwise
snip

Your replies indicate that you fall short of being clear of mind. I am of the opinion that you like and savor bunk, it's all over your comments. Try to do better. Think more like Phage, Harte, Arbitrageur, Armap and, hell, even me!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Memenquay

Do I have to listen to him or can you provide a summary?

Ditto! Kaku sometimes sounds like a kook!

originally posted by: Hunkadinka

originally posted by: Malisa

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Malisa

I mean i know your job is to debunk things

Sure it is. Read my sig.

Do you like bunk?

Well that's a dummy question LMFAO!

10:

I like to be clear of mind, not just go crazy on something because i can't figure out otherwise
snip

Your replies indicate that you fall short of being clear of mind. I am of the opinion that you like and savor bunk, it's all over your comments. Try to do better. Think more like Phage, Harte, Arbitrageur, Armap and, hell, even me!

LMFAO!

You sound a bit butt hurt here, i'm sorry you can't see things as they are

Maybe even you failed at being an honest debunker and have used the bias to destroy things you didn't like or understood in the past, and now you hate me because i said clearly some people are fake and lame debunkers?

Anyway i would not follow Phage at all, he is just repeating stuff some other people figured out, he doesn't even know if the other people were right or not but it was "the accepted answer" so he just repeats it blindly, like a religion

I suggest you don't mix some names with other's trying to make them all equal .. That's a terrible approach, when looking for validation : P

Only people who feel they lack look for validation by the way, everyone else post their own views without referencing someone else with "higher credentials" in an attempt to make themselves look credible

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: DJMSN

if you accept the "unidentified" designation, and take into account all that "weird" stuff they do (if you believe eye witnesses), it is far more rational to state "it's aliens"..then to say..."it's earthly secret black budget tech".
snip

Oh, please! It is irrational to state "it's aliens". It's rational to say, in all honesty, we don't know. Until you know, stay neutral.

originally posted by: coursecatalog
99% of the UFO mythology that believers cling to was made up out of whole cloth by people connected to the government to hide classifed projects and lure in spies and potential defectors.

The other 1% is people having real anomalous experiences they can't explain.

You should thank debunkers for helping you separate the wheat from the chaff.

"You should thank debunkers for helping you separate the wheat from the chaff." It has happened, at least to me after one excellent debunking where even Springer spoke up, and others. That made debunking most satisfying. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen too often because most members here are believers and it would go against the grain to admit they were wrong and will fight you tooth and nail to support their conditioned gullibility.

Anomalous experiences are not restricted to UFOlogy.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Malisa

Perhaps the problem is with the labels.

Are "debunkers" simply to be taken as the converse of "believers?"

True, take me I think I believe what I experienced, yet I am always looking for concrete proof to corroborate those experiences as reality. So what label should be put on me?

Easy to answer. What you experienced either really happened or you imagined it. If it really happened you graduated from believer to accepter. If it was a fantasy, you are still a believer. Take UFOs/UAP as an example. Until you have a sighting that cannot be questioned as being anything but a UFO because you saw enough detail or behavior you go from believer to accepter. If you have not had the experience you are still a believer unless you are a skeptic.

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
I think the UFO crowd needs to get better at debunking the debunkers. That should solve your problem.

There's no fun in that as it is way too easy.

ATS has one of the laziest lot of debunkers on the old interwebs. They are also overly emotionally triggered.

originally posted by: Hunkadinka
It has happened, at least to me after one excellent debunking where even Springer spoke up, and others. That made debunking most satisfying.

See?

Need for validation when you feel your own stance is lacking leads to referencing other people who you believe have higher credentials, in an attempt to make you "part of the group" and therefore get validated as an equal

If your own stance is correct then you would even stand up above those guys, but you keep referencing them in a way that makes you look like you are below or trying to push your way up

And that doesn't mean you are right, it only means you are trying to find your way up through changing people's perception of you. After all if people continually see your name along 'higher names' they will eventually start believing you are part of that group...

To me seems you discredit yourself badly because i can see what you are doing, and so other people will also see

My opinion is irrelevant because you see, i'm lesser than you as you didn't say but clearly pointed out anyways in your previous comment : )