Whistle blower allegation proves dems, media corruption in Biden Ukraine story

originally posted by: Sookiechacha



No he didn't. Biden has done nothing to confirm yours and Gamblers' false narrative.

Um, apologize.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

So trump can withhold funds from any country for investigating his son

You have provided no timeline or evidence to suggest that is what Biden did and what we do know suggests the contrary.

What you have done is cherry pick, distort data and invent claims that are not supported.

So dumb it defies belief

We agree there.

a reply to: Extorris

I have provided the data

Biden’s own words admit that it wasn’t until his threat the prosecutor was fired

Biden has no way of knowing the specifics of the investigation into his son

He knew the company was under investigation and who the prosecutor in charge was

We have conflicting reports of how the investigation was proceeding anyways

We know the investigation was buried according to the current prosecutor after the former one was fired

If trump fired a prosecutor who was looking in to his son, you would be calling for his head

You wouldn’t accept trump allies or others saying actually he was right to fire the prosecutor because he was corrupt

a reply to: Grambler

Well whatever the case maybe

And I very much doubt Trumps
Administration didn’t tread carefully in dealing with Ukraine taking joe out the game... bit what is now clear is... this is the first Trump administration attack on the deepstate, the tide has turned and I’m betting on some more direct hits coming in soon when the Durham report drops

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

I have provided the data

Selective data, while omitting highly relevant data and inventing interpretations that are not logical, rational or well reasoned. You have molested the facts to fit a narrative and attempted to insert unsupported claims as facts to connect dots.

Biden’s own words admit that it wasn’t until his threat the prosecutor was fired

correct.

Biden has no way of knowing the specifics of the investigation into his son

Correct. His son was one of many board members of one of many companies owned by a Ukrainian Oligarch who was at one time under investigation for corruption along with many other oligarchs.

He knew the company was under investigation and who the prosecutor in charge was

Please support the following claims:
That the company was actively being investigated.
That Biden was aware of any investigation past or contemporary to his calling for the ouster of the prosecutor.

We have conflicting reports of how the investigation was proceeding anyways

No, we don't.
We have the corrupt Prosecutor who was ousted, claiming years later that "he had plans" to continue the investigation.
AND we have the 2ND in Command under the ousted Prosecutor saying the investigation had been long "Shelved" and "Dormant" at the time of the Chief Prosecutor's ousting.

Those two statements are not conflicting.

Someone claiming that they "had plans" to continue the investigation actually SUPPORTS the fact the investigation was dormant. Active investigations don't need thought up plans to continue, they are already active and moving forward.

We know the investigation was buried according to the current prosecutor after the former one was fired

Support this claim that the current prosecutor has stated that the investigation was "Buried" after the Former Prosecutor was ousted.

Both "buried" AND "after" being relevant to your claim.

I tried searching for the quote myself, but only found this:

Yuriy Lutsenko, Ukraine's prosecutor general, said this week that he had no evidence of wrongdoing against former Vice President Joe Biden or his son, Hunter, over the latter's involvement with a private Ukrainian gas company, Burisma Group, Bloomberg reported.

The development comes after President Donald Trump's personal defense lawyer, Rudy Giuliani revealed he was planning to travel to Ukraine to press the president-elect, Volodymyr Zelensky, to move forward with two investigations Giuliani believed would be politically beneficial to Trump.

www.businessinsider.com...

If trump ...

Irrelevant.
Schoolyard logical fallacy. Stay focused.

a reply to: Grambler

I'm sure it's been said, but I want to say it again.

We are supposed to be upset that trump abused power asking ukraine (and withholding funding) to enforce their laws but we are also supposed to ignore that biden abused power by asking ukraine (and withholding funding) to not enforce their laws on his kid. One of these things is the right thing to do. One is corruption. The media wants you to oppose the morally right thing and support the corruption. The world is upside down.

a reply to: Extorris

But But ?

a reply to: Extorris

It amazes me how dense and absurd you guys can be when one of yours is in trouble. Rather than confront the obvious reality that biden repeatedly uses his power and influence to enrich himself and his kids, no matter the expense to others, you want to see a concrete, iron clad legal case, otherwise it didn't happen! But when it's not your own, innuendo will do just fine. For example whispers about a "whistleblower" complaining about the president talking to foreign leaders. That's good enough to get you all in a tizzy. But joe biden pressuring a government to dismiss a prosecutor who may have been investigating his kids business. NBD. Biden visiting with china days before they start a billion dollar endeavor with his kid, just a coincidence. Biden meeting with ukrainian officials a few weeks before his son gets placed on the board of a gas company with a 600k/yr no show job. NBD. Obama telling putin he'll have more flexibility after the election, on a hot mic. NBD.

You don't even try to rationalize it. You just go with the cognitive dissonance of it all as if you can't think critically in any way shape or form. It's sad and kind of funny at the same time. I wish I could say they were paying you well, but they probably don't pay you at all. You've bought their weak minded narrative hook line and sinker and are pleased as punch to not question it.

a reply to: DBCowboy

amazingly enough, snookie seems to have left and won't be returning. Being shown that ignorance should always be denied was a bit too much for the old girl.

a reply to: Extorris

Ok you concede that the prosecutor Shokin was fired because of bidens threat.

You concede Biden woulndnt be aware of the specific details into the investigation of his sons company.

You want proof the investigation was active now.

several responses.

1. we have conflicting stories of whether or not it was active in practice. The deputy prosecutor says no, the lead prosecutor says yes. Just saying well biden and other american allies thought the prosecutor was corrupt so we wont believe him is not a response.

The burden of proof should be on Biden and company to 100% prove his sons company was not under investigation. If he can not do that, and Biden was unsure of whether or not the investigation was active, then it is incredibly damaging to demand the prosecutor leading that potential investigation be fired.

does this Biden is guilty of extortion and corruption? Not on its own, but it definitely is enough to warrant an investigation.

2. You have conceded that Biden wouldnt know the details into the investigation of his sons company (lest that be horribly corrupt on its own). So if Biden was aware that on paper (regardless of the actual practice) that the investigation was open, then him demanding the firing of the person leading that investigation is horrible.

So back to my OP that you seem to have not read very well.

We know that Biden knew his son worked for the company, knew the comapny was under investigation, and his office even 4 MONTHS BEFORE Bidens threat commented on a story about Bidens sons company being investigated by the general prosecutor.

Hunter Biden's appointment to the board was widely reported in American media;

The U.S. Embassy in Kiev that coordinated Biden's work in the country repeatedly and publicly discussed the general prosecutor's case against Burisma;

Great Britain took very public action against Burisma while Joe Biden was working with that government on Ukraine issues;

Biden's office was quoted, on the record, acknowledging Hunter Biden's role in Burisma in a New York Times article about the general prosecutor's Burisma case that appeared four months before Biden forced the firing of Shokin. The vice president's office suggested in that article that Hunter Biden was a lawyer free to pursue his own private business deals.

thehill.com...

So the back and forth by prosecutors within the Ukraine about whether or not the investigation was active is irrelevant; we have absolute proof at least 4 months before biden made his threat to demand the prosecutor looking in to his sons company was fired, Biden thought there was an active investigation.

So there is your proof Biden was aware

Ill answer your next point below.

a reply to: Extorris

So I have already proven that Joe Biden thought his sons company was under investigation, and he succeeded in ousting the prosecutor he knew was in charge of that investigation by threatening to withhold a billion dollars. Regradless of anything more we discuss, that is damning and reason for an investigation.

But I shall continue.

You ask for proof the investigation was buried afterwards.

Again, you didnt do a very good job reading the OP

Lutsenko told me that, while reviewing the Burisma investigative files, he discovered “members of the Board obtained funds as well as another U.S.-based legal entity, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, for consulting services.”

Lutsenko said some of the evidence he knows about in the Burisma case may interest U.S. authorities and he’d like to present that information to new U.S. Attorney General William Barr, particularly the vice president’s intervention.

“Unfortunately, Mr. Biden had correlated and connected this aid with some of the HR (personnel) issues and changes in the prosecutor’s office,” Lutsenko said.

Nazar Kholodnytskyi, the lead anti-corruption prosecutor in Lutsenko’s office, confirmed to me in an interview that part of the Burisma investigation was reopened in 2018, after Joe Biden made his remarks. “We were able to start this case again,” Kholodnytskyi said.

But he said the separate Ukrainian police agency that investigates corruption has dragged its feet in gathering evidence. “We don’t see any result from this case one year after the reopening because of some external influence,” he said, declining to be more specific.

thehill.com...

and more

Lutsenko said Ukrainian company board members legally can pay themselves for work they do if it benefits the company’s bottom line, but prosecutors never got to determine the merits of the payments to Rosemont because of the way the investigation was shut down.

As for your source quoting lutsenko, yes he is right that there is no active investigation into hunter biden. However, from the above you can see he says there were payments that went to hunter that were never properly investigated, he is willing to give that info to the US, and he thinks it unfortunate that Joe Biden got involved.

His lead person in his office goes further to stating that investigators drug their feet on the investigation because of external pressure.


Now where did the investigation into Burisma go after biden got tghe prosecutor fired?

Most of the general prosecutor’s investigative work on Burisma focused on three separate cases, and most stopped abruptly once Shokin was fired. The most prominent of the Burisma cases was transferred to a different Ukrainian agency, closely aligned with the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, known as the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), according to the case file and current General Prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko.

NABU closed that case, and a second case involving alleged improper money transfers in London was dropped when Ukrainian officials failed to file the necessary documents by the required deadline. The general prosecutor’s office successfully secured a multimillion-dollar judgment in a tax evasion case, Lutsenko said. He did not say who was the actual defendant in that case.

Now you are so eager to say shokin was corrupt, thats why he cant be trusted.

So lets look at this NABU that got the case and was aligned with the US Embassy in Kiev

Ukrainian law enforcement officials believe they have evidence of wrongdoing by American Democrats and their allies in Kiev, ranging from 2016 election interference to obstructing criminal probes. But, they say, they’ve been thwarted in trying to get the Trump Justice Department to act.

Kostiantyn Kulyk, deputy head of the Prosecutor General’s International Legal Cooperation Department, told me he and other senior law enforcement officials tried unsuccessfully since last year to get visas from the U.S. Embassy in Kiev to deliver their evidence to Washington.

...


In another instance, he said, Ukrainian authorities gathered evidence that money paid to an American Democrat allegedly was hidden by Ukraine’s National Anti-Corruption Bureau (NABU) during the 2016 election under pressure from U.S. officials. “In the course of this investigation, we found that there was a situation during which influence was exerted on the NABU, so that the name of [the American] would not be mentioned,” he said.

thehill.com...

Uh oh.

Turns out the NABU that got the case was being pressured by americans during obamas time to hide evidence of wrong doing.

Well jeez, the NABU is accused of being corrupt. That was enough for you to not believe anything shokin said, so I guess you feel the same about the NABU, who was in charge of the investigation into burisma that never went anywhere.

But wait, there is more!

Ukrainian officials say they don’t want to hand the evidence to FBI agents working in Ukraine because they believe the bureau has a close relationship with the NABU and the U.S. Embassy. “It is no secret in Ukrainian political circles that the NABU was created with American help and tried to exert influence during the U.S. presidential election,” Kulyk told me.

Uh oh.

The anti corruption people in the Ukraine dont trust the FBI becuase they know they were influencing the NABU, which was trying to influence the 2016 election.

But these guys must all be lying, right? No need to investigate.

And we continue.

Kulyk’s boss, Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko, told me he has enough evidence — particularly involving Biden, his family and money spirited out of Ukraine — to warrant a meeting with U.S. Attorney General William Barr. “I’m looking forward to meeting with the attorney general of the United States in order to start and facilitate our joint investigation regarding the appropriation of another $7 billion in U.S. dollars with Ukrainian legal origin,” Lutsenko said.

So while Lutsenko did say there is no active investigation into Hunter, he is eagerly waiting to meet with Barr to discuss the case.

AND it turns out his office is saying there is an investigation active into JOE BIDEN and his influence.

Kulyk confirmed Ukraine is investigating that alleged incident: “We have evidence and witnesses stating that Joe Biden applied pressure on Ukrainian law enforcement to stop the investigation.”

Did you get that?

Despite yur assurances Biden did nothing wrong, and there was no investigation into his sons comapny, the current prosecutors office, that Biden himself called solid, is claiming they are investigating because they have evidence Biden applied pressure to stop the investigation into his sons company.

Is the new prosecutors office lying as well?

This btw follows directly with the claims of Trumps team that in fact there was nothing shady in his call with the Ukaranian president.
'
Ths is because it was the Ukrainains all along who were trying to reach out to trump to provide evidence of crimes committed by democrats, but the doj wasnt accepting it, and they felt the fbi was corrupt and involved.

a reply to: DBCowboy

There is nothing in that video that confirms the accusation that Joe Biden, unilaterally and personally threatened the Ukraine to fire that prosecutor because he was investigating his son.

Joe Biden was there are the Vice President of the United States, asserting US policy and interests, under the authority of the Obama Administration.

Shokin was appointed General Prosecutor of Ukraine on 10 February 2015. He became deeply unpopular and was accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and hindering the fight against corruption in Ukraine. Various street protests demanding Shokin's resignation were held and his Deputy Prosecutor, Vitaly Kasko, resigned on 15 February 2016 denouncing the corruption and lawlessness of the Prosecutor's office. US Vice-President Joe Biden lobbied for Shokin resignation and the Obama Administration withheld a billion dollars in loan guarantees for the time Shokin held office.

Prosecutor General Shokin on 16 February 2016 submitted a letter of resignation. Although the next day an official of the prosecution office stated "As far as I know he has taken a paid leave". On 19 February 2016 presidential press secretary Sviatoslav Tsegolko wrote on Twitter that the presidential administration had received an official letter of resignation from Shokin. On 16 March 2016 an official of the prosecution office stated that Shokin had resumed his work. On 16 March 2016 Shokin had not been formally dismissed. Shokin was formally dismissed in a parliamentary vote on 29 March 2016. Following his dismissal Shokin went into retirement.

en.wikipedia.org...

And...

The European Union has welcomed the dismissal of Ukraine’s scandal-ridden prosecutor general and called for a crackdown on corruption, even as the country’s political crisis deepened over efforts to form a new ruling coalition and appoint a new prime minister.

Ukraine’s parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutor’s office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.

“This decision creates an opportunity to make a fresh start in the prosecutor general’s office. I hope that the new prosecutor general will ensure that [his] office . . . becomes independent from political influence and pressure and enjoys public trust,” said Jan Tombinski, the EU’s envoy to Ukraine.

“There is still a lack of tangible results of investigations into serious cases . . . as well as investigations of high-level officials within the prosecutor general’s office,” he added.

www.irishtimes.com...


So, Joe Biden wasn't even successful in getting Shokin fired. We was formally dismissed by Parliamentary vote.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

What’s with all the Biden defenders saying unilaterally? Why is that relevant?

Trump didn’t unilaterally fire comey, in the sense that many people wanted him gone including Rosenstein who recommended it

Yet that was the reason for the mueller investigation

Further more, just because there was a technicality needed after they promised Biden to fire him, we know from Biden’s own words it was Biden’s threat that caused them to fire him

And we even have the current prosecutors office saying they have evidence Joe Biden applies pressure to stop the investigation into is some company as i posted above

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: DBCowboy

There is nothing in that video that confirms the accusation that Joe Biden, unilaterally and personally threatened the Ukraine to fire that prosecutor because he was investigating his son.

Joe Biden was there are the Vice President of the United States, asserting US policy and interests, under the authority of the Obama Administration.

Shokin was appointed General Prosecutor of Ukraine on 10 February 2015. He became deeply unpopular and was accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and hindering the fight against corruption in Ukraine. Various street protests demanding Shokin's resignation were held and his Deputy Prosecutor, Vitaly Kasko, resigned on 15 February 2016 denouncing the corruption and lawlessness of the Prosecutor's office. US Vice-President Joe Biden lobbied for Shokin resignation and the Obama Administration withheld a billion dollars in loan guarantees for the time Shokin held office.

Prosecutor General Shokin on 16 February 2016 submitted a letter of resignation. Although the next day an official of the prosecution office stated "As far as I know he has taken a paid leave". On 19 February 2016 presidential press secretary Sviatoslav Tsegolko wrote on Twitter that the presidential administration had received an official letter of resignation from Shokin. On 16 March 2016 an official of the prosecution office stated that Shokin had resumed his work. On 16 March 2016 Shokin had not been formally dismissed. Shokin was formally dismissed in a parliamentary vote on 29 March 2016. Following his dismissal Shokin went into retirement.

en.wikipedia.org...

And...

The European Union has welcomed the dismissal of Ukraine’s scandal-ridden prosecutor general and called for a crackdown on corruption, even as the country’s political crisis deepened over efforts to form a new ruling coalition and appoint a new prime minister.

Ukraine’s parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutor’s office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.

“This decision creates an opportunity to make a fresh start in the prosecutor general’s office. I hope that the new prosecutor general will ensure that [his] office . . . becomes independent from political influence and pressure and enjoys public trust,” said Jan Tombinski, the EU’s envoy to Ukraine.

“There is still a lack of tangible results of investigations into serious cases . . . as well as investigations of high-level officials within the prosecutor general’s office,” he added.

www.irishtimes.com...


So, Joe Biden wasn't even successful in getting Shokin fired. We was formally dismissed by Parliamentary vote.

Sleepy Joe still got his kid a job in the Ukraine making $50,000 a MONTH working for their largest gas company.

Hunter had no experience in the Ukraine or in the gas industry.

$50,000 a MONTH for doing what?

You wont say it so I will, it was to use his daddy's political influence as the top US politician dealing with the Ukraine.

Trump as the leader of the US doesnt have the right to ask why Bidens kid got $50,000 a MONTH and why sleepy Joe held $1,000,000,000 from the Ukraine when they started investigating the situation?

Lolz🤪

The Democrats are now pro corruption and the only thing they stand for is orange man bad.

It's an ugly look guys

Biden's family has been milking Ukraine for years.

Business efforts of Biden brother and son prompt new questions over influence peddling

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

Donor with deep Ukraine ties lent $500,000 to Biden’s brother

www.politico.com...

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a reply to: Grambler

What’s with all the Biden defenders saying unilaterally? Why is that relevant?

Because you guys keep insisting that Biden "bribed" the Ukrainian government to fire the prosecutor, Shokin, to protect his son.

Trump didn’t unilaterally fire comey, in the sense that many people wanted him gone including Rosenstein who recommended it

Irrelevant. Off Topic.

we know from Biden’s own words it was Biden’s threat that caused them to fire him

We know that's what Biden thinks, and that's what Biden bragged about, but there's more to the story. The Ukrainian people were protesting in the streets for Shokin's removal, The EU was demanding his removal, the US placed his removal as a requirement for a loan guarantee.

There is no evidence, or proof, as you like to say, that Biden conveyed the threat in order to protect his son from investigation.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So just to be clear

The standard is now as long as some other people don’t like an investigator, it’s ok for a government official to fire them or force them to be fired.

Weird that all the people saying this didn’t speak up when mueller was appointed for trump firing comey



Meanwhile we know that despite a hunch of people not liking Shokin, he wasn’t fired until after Biden made his threat

We also know the current prosecutor office has evidence Biden tries to exert pressure to stop the investigation into his sons company

But despite all of that, you don’t see a problem

a reply to: Scepticaldem

You can be upset about politician's rich kids getting influence peddling jobs all you want. It doesn't justify the accusations that Trump tried to extort dirt on his political opponent by threatening to withhold tax payer funds designated for the Ukraine's defense against Russian aggression by the US Congress.

a reply to: Grambler

The standard is now as long as some other people don’t like an investigator, it’s ok for a government official to fire them or force them to be fired.

To be clear, the "people" of the Ukraine, the EU, the USA and other global communities were demanding Shokin's resignation due to corruption.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Grambler

What’s with all the Biden defenders saying unilaterally? Why is that relevant?

Because you guys keep insisting that Biden "bribed" the Ukrainian government to fire the prosecutor, Shokin, to protect his son.

Trump didn’t unilaterally fire comey, in the sense that many people wanted him gone including Rosenstein who recommended it

Irrelevant. Off Topic.

we know from Biden’s own words it was Biden’s threat that caused them to fire him

We know that's what Biden thinks, and that's what Biden bragged about, but there's more to the story. The Ukrainian people were protesting in the streets for Shokin's removal, The EU was demanding his removal, the US placed his removal as a requirement for a loan guarantee.

There is no evidence, or proof, as you like to say, that Biden conveyed the threat in order to protect his son from investigation.

I have asked you numerous times but you have not answered yet.

Do you think it was ok for sleepy Joe to get his son a gig in the Ukraine gas industry, making $50,000 a month, when Hunter knew nothing of the Ukraine and nothing about the gas industry?

Hunter and 2 other kids who had parents that were elected officials in the US government started an investment firm that specialized in investing in foreign companies that required US political influence. It was stated in the politifacts article I posted for you yesterday.www.politifact.com...

Your stance is now pro corruption and using political influence for personal monetary gain?

Why did the clinton foundation donations go down 98% the same year she lost the election?

Lolz🤪